Baseball in Charlotte, which will happen?

[monsoon]

You left out what is supposed to happen to the land. The county purchased it specifically to create a large urban park downtown and that is the current plan. They have already set aside the funding for it. Prior to this baseball deal being announced there was plenty of support right here on this forum for the Park on how much good it would do for Charlotte.

People are opposed to swapping this land for a smaller space and thus a smaller park for the city and turning the large plot of land over to private hands for a baseball stadium. The fact of the matter it is a government handout out to the owners of the baseball team and several private developers who have no interest in this beyond putting more money in their pockets.

It is bad public policy, will destroy our chances to have a large park downtown, and is bad urban development.

I may be over-simplifying this, but the three schools of thought here are:

1) Do nothing with the land - leave it as a collection of surface lots and fields, we have better things to focus on.

2) Move forward with the land swap, and plans for a 3rd Ward Baseball Stadium / Park

3) Do something else with the land, either now, or somewhere down the road

Do more people tend to oppose this because of the first or third reasons?

[dubone]

It is bad public policy to ignore park design consultants that claim that a park that is too far from Tryon would put this at risk for being an unsuccessful park. I know I was very supportive of this park because there seemed to be no options for getting the better land that the park consultants had recommended. Now there is a way.

Size isn't everything. For real estate, location is much more important. Marshall Park and First Ward Park were so bad that the County Park & Rec didn't even accept them when the city department merged with them. That is why the city owns that land to trade in the first place.

Plus, one of the major uses for the proposed park was to have an outdoor location for concerts that couldn't fit into Panther Stadium. The baseball park provides that.

The city pays for sidewalks and street improvements that are designed to help spur redevelopment in the area. It is impossibly frustrating that this is being spun by opponents as the city paying for the stadium. If the city builds a sidewalk in front of my house, does it mean that they built my house?

[cityboi]

I do think Charlotte needs to do something soon. When it does get a new stadium, the team will have the highest attendance in all of the AAA and I think the high attendance figures will remain. It may prove that Charlotte could support the pros. However they need to design this stadium so it can exapnd for the majors.

[cityboi]

But the areas around the arena and stadium are being filled in, it just isn't happening overnight. Once the Beazer project on Morehead is underway, the Warehouse District projects are done, Novare begins its projects around the stadium and Centro begins the "pencil" tower by the arena there will be development surrounding these.

[MZT]

Just speaking for myself, I'd be more likely to buy a unit that faced a park or greenway than a baseball stadium.

Heck, just today I had a minor errand that took me to the office. I parked on Caldwell, and walked through the eiree, vacant parking lots by the Bobcat's Arena and the "Switch Building", seeing only one other human walking in front of me, all the way to College street.

And even then, many of the people I saw were security guards and parking lot attendants. If it wasn't for a few vistors walking out of the Holiday Inn, even College would be deserted.

I'm not sure if the problem is the Arena (and it's empty ground level retail) or the wide surface lots. But the area feels abandoned, on a non-event day.

[monsoon]

If I recall, the design of the baseball statdium is a long series of walls against the sidewalk. This is done on purpose of course so people can't watch the game without paying.

Deadsville.

[eastsider]

Really, I wasn't aware the stadium had been designed yet?

[uptownliving]

Really, I wasn't aware the stadium had been designed yet?

[monsoon]

Really, I wasn't aware the stadium had been designed yet?

[dubone]

In lieu of means in stead of. This stadium is in addition to an urban park. I believe I read that somewhere. This stadium is in lieu of surface parking lots.

[monsoon]

Not on that 8 acre piece of property.

[swh1972]

I simply dont understand why people continue to believe that sport venues are good for the downtown especially in lieu of an urban park.

[uptownliving]

I think having the Knights at the proposed location in Third Ward would enhance the park at the proposed site on Pine. At the current location the Third Wark park would be bookended by a large parking deck and the backside of a Federal Courthouse. Instead the new location will be surrounded by condos, offices, and Latta Arcade retail. To me it seems to be a no brainer. I simply don't understand people that continue to insist that to have a succusful park that you have to locate it closer to a very active railroad and the blank wall of the largest parking deck downtown.

[uptownliving]

Having the Knights in Charlotte would generate about $500K a year in property taxes. Add on top of that all the sales tax from the concession sales, and all the income tax from player and personel salaries. When its added all up the goverment take from the Knights will be close to or over $1M per year. This would all be net new revenue to Charlotte, Mecklenburg, and North Carolina.

How much does this property currently generate for government? $0

[swh1972]

How much does this property currently generate for government? $0

[reverbandwhiskey]

Having the Knights in Charlotte would generate about $500K a year in property taxes. Add on top of that all the sales tax from the concession sales, and all the income tax from player and personel salaries. When its added all up the goverment take from the Knights will be close to or over $1M per year. This would all be net new revenue to Charlotte, Mecklenburg, and North Carolina.

How much does this property currently generate for government? $0

[uptownliving]

I think I read somewhere that the tax revenue is currently $150,000 per year

[swh1972]

The property is completly owned by Mecklenburg County. Property owned by local governments are not taxed.

[uptownliving]

Well if you want to focus on revenue, don't forget the costs the city will face:

Increased traffic will require more police/fire dept/emt's to help deal with it, There will be more accidents, arrests, littering etc. Getting those 5,000+ cars into uptown at 6:00PM 50 times a year will not be easy, or cheap.

Just put the stadium in South End and leave me my park.

[reverbandwhiskey]

Points well taken. I am not against having a ballpark somewhere in SouthEnd (I'm guessing it would be somewhere close to Mint St.) but the costs to taxpayers for a ballpark in SouthEnd are 900% higher than an Uptown Stadium. The local government would have to foot the bill for the land, stadium, parking deck, and street utility upgrades if it were in SouthEnd. Where as in Uptown they just have to pay for street utility upgrades. Due to those facts I don't think it is politically possible for that to happen anytime soon.

[uptownliving]

My mistake. That was the amount of tax revenue currently generated by the property involved in the land swap proposal.

[uptownliving]

Why would the city have to pay for that? If a private company wants a stadium for their team then THEY should be the one to pay for it. I, for one, am sick of public funds being used to build playthings for sports teams.

[lukedog]

Points well taken. I am not against having a ballpark somewhere in SouthEnd (I'm guessing it would be somewhere close to Mint St.) but the costs to taxpayers for a ballpark in SouthEnd are 900% higher than an Uptown Stadium. The local government would have to foot the bill for the land, stadium, parking deck, and street utility upgrades if it were in SouthEnd. Where as in Uptown they just have to pay for street utility upgrades. Due to those facts I don't think it is politically possible for that to happen anytime soon.

[reverbandwhiskey]

The Charlotte Knights have stated that they would not be willing to pay for a stadium unless it is at the Third Ward site. Evidently they think there is a big difference in locating downtown where lots of the workers could just walk to the game, and for that difference they are willing to put down $35M of their own money to build the stadium. The uptown site also has the advantage of a parking deck that was built by the city 10 years ago.

[monsoon]

Why would the city have to pay for that? If a private company wants a stadium for their team then THEY should be the one to pay for it. I, for one, am sick of public funds being used to build playthings for sports teams.