The West End

[Danmire]

The Downunder/10 venue is officially dead. It's not going to happen. Thought it was a bad sign when the banner was posted looking for partners.

[Greenville]

The Downunder/10 venue is officially dead. It's not going to happen. Thought it was a bad sign when the banner was posted looking for partners.

This one really hurts. The weakest aspect of downtown Greenville is the lack of live entertainment for young professionals, college students, and teenagers. This was going to be a great venue. It shouldn't be difficult for someone to organize a nice, trendy, unique bar/restaurant with regular performances by solid bands. If Asheville can have The Orange Peel, Greenville (with a better downtown and a larger population base) should have something comparable. I realize that we have The Handlebar, which is not a bad venue, but it's not in a great area and is not really in a pedestrian-friendly location. We need something else.

None of this is to detract from the many good arts venues, including the Peace Center, Little Theater, Centre Stage, and Warehouse Theater. Those things are great, but when you want to go have a drink or two and hear some live entertainment with friends for a fun outing, Greenville is sorely lacking. This must be addressed if the city truly wants to develop the "coolness" factor discussed in the Vision 2025 plan. And protest from those who want downtown to be "family-oriented" and "safe" better not be the reason it doesn't happen. One does not have to be at the expense of the other!

Edited February 20, 2008 by Greenville

[goodbye]

That is very sad indeed. The last two sentences in the previous post remind me of the potential American Apparel and Jillians sports bar that were fought against by a few downtown nimbys. Let's hope another developer steps up to the plate and capitalizes on the musical venue idea. I wouldn't mind seeing that West End building used as a small indie theatre and gallery.

[RestedTraveler]

And protest from those who want downtown to be "family-oriented" and "safe" better not be the reason it doesn't happen. One does not have to be at the expense of the other!

Amen! I need look no further than Lower Downtown (LoDo) Denver to cite an example of that. Greenville could be that hip, cool and family-oriented place all in one, too.

[greenvilleforward]

"Family oriented" and "cool" don't have to be mutually exclusive events. We can easily be a community that is cool, safe, funky, inclusive, AND is a place young families would like to live. Joel Kotkin, a noted futurist, said, "the strongest job growth has consistently taken place in those regions-such as Houston, Dallas, Charlotte and Raleigh-Durham-with the largest net in-migration of young, educated families ranging from their mid-20s to mid-40s. "

The Wall Street Journal published an article on family friendly towns and why this is important..... http://www.joelkotkin.com/Urban_Affairs/WS...ly%20Cities.htm

[Greenville]

"Family oriented" and "cool" don't have to be mutually exclusive events. We can easily be a community that is cool, safe, funky, inclusive, AND is a place young families would like to live. Joel Kotkin, a noted futurist, said, "the strongest job growth has consistently taken place in those regions-such as Houston, Dallas, Charlotte and Raleigh-Durham-with the largest net in-migration of young, educated families ranging from their mid-20s to mid-40s. "

The Wall Street Journal published an article on family friendly towns and why this is important..... http://www.joelkotkin.com/Urban_Affairs/WS...ly%20Cities.htm

Great input, greenvilleforward! Thanks for sharing that article and information.

I wish this information could be shared with the people who have blocked previous attempts at "coolness" in the past (developments like Jillian's, American Apparel, etc.). I feel like there are people with influence - either in local government position or simply citizens who cry the loudest - who view anything directed toward young professionals as anti-family. It's sad when bars, live entertainment venues, etc. are equated with drunks, violence, and a dangerous environment. Perhaps those people are no longer in positions of influence, but they certainly were in the past.

As I said before, if Greenville truly wants to attract degreed and skilled young professionals, the "coolness" factor must be addressed. Dedicating a section of downtown or the West End to this purpose - perhaps a specific street or even a "nightlife district" - should not be too much to ask. Having the city's input in doing so would go a long way toward making it happen.

Edited February 21, 2008 by Greenville

[vicupstate]

The Jillians situation was very atypical. It was a city owned building, which the city decided MUST be retail. If they hadn't stuck to their guns, Mast General, the largest retailer Downtown, might not be DT at all. A royal screw-up by the city manager, who acted 'out of turn' from his bosses (mayor and council) had matters worse.

I questioned it myself at the time, but the Mayor and council were ultimately proven right. Jillian's was offered OTHER nearby venues and they flatly refused to consider any other location. Maybe such stubbbornness led to their shutting down locations in other cities.

I don't claim to know much about the American Apparel situation, but I got the impression that the location they were looking at did not have the traffic to be succussful, and the city informed them of this. It was good advise, which they were wise to take. I have no idea why they didn't look elsewhere in DT/West End.

[Greenville]

The Jillians situation was very atypical. It was a city owned building, which the city decided MUST be retail. If they hadn't stuck to their guns, Mast General, the largest retailer Downtown, might not be DT at all. A royal screw-up by the city manager, who acted 'out of turn' from his bosses (mayor and council) had matters worse.

I questioned it myself at the time, but the Mayor and council were ultimately proven right. Jillian's was offered OTHER nearby venues and they flatly refused to consider any other location. Maybe such stubbbornness led to their shutting down locations in other cities.

I don't claim to know much about the American Apparel situation, but I got the impression that the location they were looking at did not have the traffic to be succussful, and the city informed them of this. It was good advise, which they were wise to take. I have no idea why they didn't look elsewhere in DT/West End.

Thanks for the insight regarding the Jillian's situation. I thought I heard something before about there being an uproar about "another bar" going downtown instead of something viewed as safer. Hopefully that is wrong. Based on what you said, it sounds like the city did the right thing. Jillian's should have looked at other sites downtown, but perhaps they had a bad taste in their mouth.

Perhaps American Apparel didn't like the traffic numbers in the West End. I would like to think that they would have done well there, but it won't surprise me to see them locate at Magnolia Park instead. The funny thing is that they are located in the Vista in downtown Columbia, and never seem to be doing any business. I have been in that store twice and was the only one in there. I have also driven by on other occasions and the store looks dead. I wonder if it would have been a similar story in downtown Greenville?

[vicupstate]

Thanks for the insight regarding the Jillian's situation. I thought I heard something before about there being an uproar about "another bar" going downtown instead of something viewed as safer. Hopefully that is wrong. Based on what you said, it sounds like the city did the right thing. Jillian's should have looked at other sites downtown, but perhaps they had a bad taste in their mouth.

Perhaps American Apparel didn't like the traffic numbers in the West End. I would like to think that they would have done well there, but it won't surprise me to see them locate at Magnolia Park instead. The funny thing is that they are located in the Vista in downtown Columbia, and never seem to be doing any business. I have been in that store twice and was the only one in there. I have also driven by on other occasions and the store looks dead. I wonder if it would have been a similar story in downtown Greenville?

There were objections to Jillians based on it being a bar. Those were from other vendors and residents of DT more so than the city itself though. There had been a bar/nightclub in that same location previously, and it apparently made a real nuisance of itself.

Having seen the Jillian's in Columbia's Vista, I thought they were being unfairly maligned. I still feel that way, but if the city was eager to put them in a different location DT, they should have tried to make it work, IMO. Such actoins showed the city viewed Jillian's as a positive addition to DT.

[Greenville]

Having seen the Jillian's in Columbia's Vista, I thought they were being unfairly maligned. I still feel that way, but if the city was eager to put them in a different location DT, they should have tried to make it work, IMO. Such actoins showed the city viewed Jillian's as a positive addition to DT.

Your last statement is the important thing we need to keep in mind. As long as the city is on board addressing the "coolness" factor, we should be fine. That is assuming that the vocal minority of naysayers don't have too much influence moving forward.

[swu_BA_student]

I was told by someone that the true reason for the green monster not being approved for the new project is that the owners are the same people who own the Army Navy store and they are not well liked by the people who hold control in the city. I hope this is not true as it would say bad things about the climate for new businesses in the area trying to get going. I have no proof of this and I like to give the benefit of doubt in most cases so I don't want to believe this is true. Has anyone else ever heard of this happening in the city before or is this just viscious gossip. I was also told that the A/N store owns the building next door to the store. I might be in the minority on this but I like the store and as a vet I like to stop in from time to time to check out the new gear. Somebody please tell me this is just older people holding onto the past a little to tight and not unfair business practices in Greenville.

[benjamesriddle]

I have heard similar things... although, the "Green Monster" has some historical significance to it, can't think of it off the top of my head...

[GvilleSC]

I want that building to the right of the Army Navy store developed in the worst way. It's got huge windows and would add so much character to the West End's revitalized feel. But, the Army Navy store doesn't look that great, so I guess maybe we shouldn't expect too much from them... They should cash out and sell off those 3 buildings to real developers

[Travo]

Working in that area of downtown a few days a week I come into contact with the A/N store guys a lot. Those guys are some of the friendliest people I've ever met. After we plant the winter annuals we have to put Earth Food (really stinky mulch and "organic" material) around the new plantings. We were doing this in front of the store one afternoon, and the owner came out and asked if we were doing this all the way down S. Main or if the city had put us up to doing it only in front of his door. I think his exact words were "you know how much the city loves us." It was of course a sarcastic comment.

I agree that the front of the store could use some sprucing up, but the empty building beside it is a much bigger eye sore and a waste of good space.

[swu_BA_student]

I want that building to the right of the Army Navy store developed in the worst way. It's got huge windows and would add so much character to the West End's revitalized feel. But, the Army Navy store doesn't look that great, so I guess maybe we shouldn't expect too much from them... They should cash out and sell off those 3 buildings to real developers

As I understand it that is just what they wanted to do but were blocked by the preservation people, as least as it relates to the green monster. The store wanted to sell it but the developer won't buy it untill they get their design approved which did not happen. As far as I can tell the A/N store guys are very nice, but would be a little out of place in a crowd of Greenville millionaires so I can see were some tension could arise.

[Danmire]

I have heard similar things... although, the "Green Monster" has some historical significance to it, can't think of it off the top of my head...

I believe there was some significant meeting held upstairs that led to the founding of the State Democrat Party or with General Wade Hampton or something to that effect.

[gs3]

A cool new resale place has opened in West End. Red Ribbon. Across Pendleton from Reverb. Not just typical mommies buying used baby clothing, this place has some cool furniture, some fun mens and womens clothing and a fun group of people that shop there. The place has taste. And since I mentioned Reverb, if you haven't checked it out, you should. These are the kinds of places I hope to see more of in West End.

http://www.r3v3rb.com/

[GvilleSC]

I need to ride down Pendleton Street! Where are these in relation to Spero's?

[benjamesriddle]

I have heard similar things... although, the "Green Monster" has some historical significance to it, can't think of it off the top of my head...

Amen to that! Why can't they just keep their shop and sell the other two (three?) buildings? The one with the big windows would be a great spot for anything! Its a large store! I was in the AN Store the other day, and I noticed the ceilings, original copper painted look, similar to Mast General Store. PRIME REAL ESTATE Folks!

[gs3]

I need to ride down Pendleton Street! Where are these in relation to Spero's?

Headed out of West End, these are just slightly past the new Pendleton West office building.

[gvilledh]

My daughter and I were downtown this afternoon, enjoying the beautiful weather. We weren't the only ones enjoying it since this is Spring Break Week.

We walked by Munchies and saw that they are opening on March 28. They have their menu posted outside. It's a lot different than I expected. They will have a funnel cake, but they will also have hamburgers, hot dogs, a grilled cheese with bacon, Fresh cut Fries and a good variety of other items. They will have some ice cream specialties, also. They have what they call Southern Snow, which will be their version of a snow cone. One of their big draws will be their candy department. They have a huge area of all kinds of candy, yet different stuff than what they have at Mast General. I have a feeling they will do pretty well. Their prices may be a little high when feeding a large family, but if you are just there for snow cones or a funnel cake, it won't be too bad. If I had thought about it then, I would have taken a picture of the menu and put it on here.

We definitely decided we need to go back next week and explore some more. We haven't gotten downtown to just walk around in a few months and a lot has changed in the West End. It's always fun to find somewhere new to shop!

[greenvillehistorytours]

My daughter and I were downtown this afternoon, enjoying the beautiful weather. We weren't the only ones enjoying it since this is Spring Break Week.

We walked by Munchies and saw that they are opening on March 28.

Thanks for the heads-up! Where exactly is Munchies?

There are now well over 100 eating establishments just in downtown Greenville--and it doesn't look to be slowing down.

[RestedTraveler]

Munchies is just South of Subway, Spill the Beans, and Pomegranate on Main. I had turned my nose up at it too soon, I suppose. I may have to stop in this weekend with the kids and treat them to something.

[Greenville]

Munchies is just South of Subway, Spill the Beans, and Pomegranate on Main. I had turned my nose up at it too soon, I suppose. I may have to stop in this weekend with the kids and treat them to something.

Admittedly, I have turned my nose up at Munchies too. I simply don't see carnival-type food appealing to most people. I can definitely see the value of a place like that for parents who have just taken their kids to Falls Park. Its location is hopefully close enough that people will see it and take their kids.

Let's be honest. They are going to have to do a lot of business to pay for that high-rent location. Maybe they are expecting to make their money in the summer when the weather is warm and a ton of people are out walking, because I do not see them doing much business in January when it's 50 degrees outside. I hope I am wrong, though.

Does anyone know how O-CHA is doing now that it is located in RiverPlace? I hope the new location is more visible to people, and that they are doing great business! I have not had a chance to visit their new location, but if anyone else has I would love to hear about it.

[RestedTraveler]

Does anyone know how O-CHA is doing now that it is located in RiverPlace? I hope the new location is more visible to people, and that they are doing great business! I have not had a chance to visit their new location, but if anyone else has I would love to hear about it.

I mentioned it just today in another thread - over in the Coffee House.