GSA/Federal Courts Expansion issue

[Former Resident of HR]

that cant be right. Chesapeake had one built for the DC Sniper trial. it goes under the road from the jail to the court building

I'm sure it was in place before the trial. With these federal standards, they grandfather older buildings in. But new buildings have to meet the new standards.

[varider]

The bottomline with this project is that the city must fight GSA or whoever to get them to build the tower addition onto the current fed. courthouse. The lot on Granby is too valuable to the city and Granby can't be closed either. The former Granby Tower lot should be saved for some great signature development. Not a courthouse. I bet in 5 years,downtown Norfolk will be in need of another office tower because the Wells Fargo building will be 100% leased and office space is running low. The Granby lot would be a great place for a 30+ floor office tower.

[Norfolk4Life]

I'm sure it was in place before the trial. With these federal standards, they grandfather older buildings in. But new buildings have to meet the new standards.

Chesapeake doesn't have 'older' buildings. all of their courts are newer buildings. The tunnel was completed in late 1999.

Regardless, I think the court should be expanded upwards, not out.

[urbanlife]

Chesapeake doesn't have 'older' buildings. all of their courts are newer buildings. The tunnel was completed in late 1999.

Regardless, I think the court should be expanded upwards, not out.

I dont think that no tunnel or bridge rule is all that old. I think it came about early last decade.

[Former Resident of HR]

I dont think that no tunnel or bridge rule is all that old. I think it came about early last decade.

(rolls eyes and sighs)

Well I am sure that anything older than 2001 (remember a significant event from that year?) is on a different standard than what is required for federal buildings now. 1999 was a million years ago as far as terrorism and bomb safety is concerned.

[urbanlife]

(rolls eyes and sighs)

Well I am sure that anything older than 2001 (remember a significant event from that year?) is on a different standard than what is required for federal buildings now. 1999 was a million years ago as far as terrorism and bomb safety is concerned.

exactly, I was just being more subtle cause I didnt feel like saying 9/11, 9/11, 9/11.

[Norfolk4Life]

Duval County (Near Jacksonville FL) - Dec. 8, 2009 -- "Jacksonville is moving forward with plans to build a controversial elevated walkway connecting the third floors of the prosecutor's office and the new Duval County Courthouse." Controversial due to cost, the project mentions nothing about any rules. In fact, in Minneapolis, MN the U.S. Courthouse is connected with their pedestrian bridge (skyway) system. Not only that, but they are adding a new bridge connection as of Nov. 2009. Given these cases, I do not think that there are any rules against it. Also considering a bridge would be a greater risk than a tunnel, I don't see that there would be any rules regarding tunnels.

[Former Resident of HR]

http://hamptonroads.com/2010/07/federal-officials-file-suit-get-granby-tower-site-norfolk

So what does this mean for Granby Street and Monticello?

[urbanlife]

http://hamptonroads.com/2010/07/federal-officials-file-suit-get-granby-tower-site-norfolk

So what does this mean for Granby Street and Monticello?

This basically means that the city is stuck with a dirt lot for the next 10-15 years while it goes through legal battles. If lucky, the city might see some grass and park benches laid out on it, but that is about the most anyone should be hoping for with this one.

[ronsmytheiii]

http://hamptonroads....er-site-norfolk

So what does this mean for Granby Street and Monticello?

It really depends on the design of the courthouse, if GSA is considerate and works wit the city it might actually be a good anchor, but something tells me this wont happen

[usermel]

This whole project is a mess. Our city sometimes cant get out of its own way. Oh well, now we do what we are with The Westin and did with Granby Towers and other Norfolk projects meant to enhance the city! Wait!!! L.G.N.M

[carolinaboy]

Well I think it is good news. The Fed government will proceed. They don't have to "wait" even if Gadams appeals. Gadams should take the money and move on and don't beotch about not getting enough. He screwed everybody involved and should be happy with what he gets. OK, enough ranting.

Norfolk needs this development in a bad way IMO. I am happy to hear this news.

Here are some links to recent federal courthouse construction. If we get something like this I would be happy.

http://www.casd.uscourts.gov/uploads/images/courthouse/SD_Cth_New.jpg

[mistermetaj]

Well I think it is good news. The Fed government will proceed. They don't have to "wait" even if Gadams appeals. Gadams should take the money and move on and don't beotch about not getting enough. He screwed everybody involved and should be happy with what he gets. OK, enough ranting.

Norfolk needs this development in a bad way IMO. I am happy to hear this news.

Here are some links to recent federal courthouse construction. If we get something like this I would be happy.

http://www.casd.uscourts.gov/uploads/images/courthouse/SD_Cth_New.jpg

Every picture you have listed looks very uninviting. Not the kind of architecture I would want anchoring Granby St. In essence, it walls out Brambleton from the rest of downtown as well. Not really what I was hoping for.

All of this govt expansion should have gone in a large redevelopment of the city hall complex. This is ruinous for Granby St. which is struggling as it is today.

[carolinaboy]

Every picture you have listed looks very uninviting. Not the kind of architecture I would want anchoring Granby St. In essence, it walls out Brambleton from the rest of downtown as well. Not really what I was hoping for.

All of this govt expansion should have gone in a large redevelopment of the city hall complex. This is ruinous for Granby St. which is struggling as it is today.

I respect your opinion and comment. But I don't think they are necessarily "uninviting". The San Diego building looks especially nice to me.

And "walling out Brambleton" I don't know either. None of the examples are very tall, but they have mass and presence. I would think Granby Tower would "wall" off Brambleton moreso.

I also would prefer a different architecture, but these were recent examples I could find. However, I do not want another short, stubby box. None of these examples are that vanilla.

[mistermetaj]

I respect your opinion and comment. But I don't think they are necessarily "uninviting". The San Diego building looks especially nice to me.

And "walling out Brambleton" I don't know either. None of the examples are very tall, but they have mass and presence. I would think Granby Tower would "wall" off Brambleton moreso.

I also would prefer a different architecture, but these were recent examples I could find. However, I do not want another short, stubby box. None of these examples are that vanilla.

The San Diego building definitely has the best relationship with pedestrians at street level IMO.

My comment of walling of Brambelton was more a condemnation of a court complex in general no matter what it looks like. No retail creates a dead zone right at the current downtown limit.

As for the architecture, I would prefer a more classic look to complement the older courthouse across the street (See Robert AM. Stern). The proposed addition to the top of the old courthouse moved to this site would be ideal IMO from a purely architectural standpoint.

[Telmnstr]

If only we could cut down the number of people in jail, and not expand it. There is already as many people in jail in the USA as there are in the Hampton Roads MSA. That's pretty insane.

I say put the courthouse over in the bad neighborhood.

[Norfolk4Life]

I hate duplicating things, but I just posted this in the Granby Tower board...

this really shouldnt be an issue. their own plan says that they can build a tower IN THE MIDDLE of their current building and it would be cheaper than almost any other option. check it out:

read more about it: i have posted twice on this issue on my own blog:http://757hamptonroads.com/tag/federal-courthouse/

[metalman]

I love this plan. I pisses me off that they spent so long delay Granby Tower, studying their options, concluding that the tower option was the best, screwing Granby Tower over, then forcing the land be sold to them with the idea of CLOSING Granby st. That is the murdering of downtown Norfolk's main artery, and wiping off land and business from Norfolk's tax base. Isn't that the exact opposite of what Obama planned with his stimulus package? Hypocrites. Congratulations gov't! You just canceled two massive construction projects, housing, a hotel, and hundreds of permanent PRIVATE business jobs. That sound counter-intuitive to stimulating the economy. We need growth in private sector job, not just government jobs. To me, it is scary to know that last year the number of Gov't sector jobs in this country exceeded private sector jobs. That's not how this country should be operating. That will not create sustained grown nor is a positive improvement to our economy.

[Norfolk4Life]

my thoughts exactly

[lil-bear]

GSA Newport News Courthouse

This is the Federal Courthouse in Newport News that is hardly being used.

Newport News GSA Courthouse rarely being used

Why would the GSA build an annex to the Norfolk Courthouse when they have space they don't use in Newport News?

Government waste at it's finest? Hmmmmmmmmmm!

[urbanlife]

GSA Newport News Courthouse

This is the Federal Courthouse in Newport News that is hardly being used.

Newport News GSA Courthouse rarely being used

Why would the GSA build an annex to the Norfolk Courthouse when they have space they don't use in Newport News?

Government waste at it's finest? Hmmmmmmmmmm!

That us because the GSA is the ultimate future planners, they like to think several hundred years into the future for what they need because it usually takes them about 50-100 year ever actually do anything they say they want to do....but seriously, good point, why expand in a region that you are not fully utilizing as it is.

[Telmnstr]

I have no idea of the likely hood of this, but the hackerspace (www.757labs.org) that friends and myself started is going into it's 2nd year. Our new lease for year #2 has a gtfo in 30 days clause (which puts a dark cloud over us.) My thoughts are the reason is because of possibility of the courts renting the building we're in. Of course light rail is another large threat. It has been a fun location because it's in walking distance to food. When meetings happen people that come normally get food before hand on Granby then walk back. Also people seem to like to look at the stuff, we just got a real industrial robot arm from a friend that we're working to get running. Not sure what we will have it doing when no one is at the space :-) Something entertaining I hope. Have two projects that we're hoping to eventually turn into companies/products. I see us as a resource for the area but we don't really get any love from the local community.

[virginia pe]

I have no idea of the likely hood of this, but the hackerspace (www.757labs.org) that friends and myself started is going into it's 2nd year. Our new lease for year #2 has a gtfo in 30 days clause (which puts a dark cloud over us.) My thoughts are the reason is because of possibility of the courts renting the building we're in. Of course light rail is another large threat. It has been a fun location because it's in walking distance to food. When meetings happen people that come normally get food before hand on Granby then walk back. Also people seem to like to look at the stuff, we just got a real industrial robot arm from a friend that we're working to get running. Not sure what we will have it doing when no one is at the space :-) Something entertaining I hope. Have two projects that we're hoping to eventually turn into companies/products. I see us as a resource for the area but we don't really get any love from the local community.

I would be very surprised if GSA rented space in the Wainwright Building. I worked there for two years. The building is old and it leaks. Leaks can be fixed, but it will be difficult. The bigger issues are harder to fix. When I worked there, my company occupied two floors. There was a men's restroom on each floor, but the only ladies' room was on the third floor. The ladies on the fourth floor had to go downstairs to use the restroom. (The building was constructed when there were not as many women in the workforce.) Also, there is only a single stairway in the middle of the building. If a fire blocked that one stairway, people could be trapped. Modern fire codes require at least two means of egress, but this building is grandfathered. I can see individual law firms renting space there, but I don't see the courts renting there. Of course, now that Sentara has moved into the new medical tower by the hospital, who knows what the Wainwright owners would be willing to do to get tenants.

[urbanlife]

I would be very surprised if GSA rented space in the Wainwright Building. I worked there for two years. The building is old and it leaks. Leaks can be fixed, but it will be difficult. The bigger issues are harder to fix. When I worked there, my company occupied two floors. There was a men's restroom on each floor, but the only ladies' room was on the third floor. The ladies on the fourth floor had to go downstairs to use the restroom. (The building was constructed when there were not as many women in the workforce.) Also, there is only a single stairway in the middle of the building. If a fire blocked that one stairway, people could be trapped. Modern fire codes require at least two means of egress, but this building is grandfathered. I can see individual law firms renting space there, but I don't see the courts renting there. Of course, now that Sentara has moved into the new medical tower by the hospital, who knows what the Wainwright owners would be willing to do to get tenants.

Doesn't that building have a couple external fire escape stairwells? It has been a long time since I saw it and don't really remember anymore, but I thought it did on the backside or on the side of the building or something. I always liked the look of that building and wished more buildings like that would of been built in Norfolk during that era.

[Telmnstr]

The space we're in was changed since Ridgeways was in it. I was thinking that they actually cut a staircase into it, but if you look up the building there are offices all the way up, so there is really no telling. I haven't really talked that much to the maintenance guy.

I know they are also marketing our space all the time hoping for a restaurant to come in. I can't even imagine the build out that would need to be done. The climate control is pretty wild (cold in the summer, hot in the winter unless it's freezing in the winter.) It would cost a huge chunk of money to redo the space. We were thinking of moving the ceiling and making it nicer but with a 30 day get out clause we're not going to put any time into any major improvements.

It's a really cool space for our group, but I can't see how others would dig it. 1100 square feet of it is upstairs, and the stairs run right into a concrete beam that is around 5' 8" off the ground. So anyone who is tall is at risk of hitting their head (there are multiple beams like that.) One of our guys wears a hard hat whenever he is up there after hitting his head.

I dunno, I'm kind of skeptical about court expansion. Too much leagal nonsense weighing down the country as it is.

As far as pedestrian walkways, who cares. If it is that big of a deal, halt traffic when someone is crossing. And have one way tinted windows so the people inside can see out, but outside can't see in.

But yea, less gov't, more private small companies.