Norfolk Light Rail and Transit

[varider]

I'm in philly right now and got the chance to ride the commuter rail into center city today.. All I can say is wow! Its so much better than driving. I could see commuter rail working in hampton roads. Ill have more ideas on this topic when I come home.

[varider]

http://hamptonroads.com/2009/11/light-rail-will-bring-riders-downtown-what-will-they-see

When light-rail passengers arrive in downtown Norfolk late next year, many will experience the city from an unfamiliar perspective - as pedestrians.

More folks will be on foot making their way to work, shopping, restaurants and entertainment venues. So, the Downtown Norfolk Council is exploring ways to make downtown more walkable and welcoming for them.

"The way people use downtown will change," said Cathy Coleman, president of the council, a membership organization that promotes downtown. "People will be in places they've never been before."

Gotta love it.

[mistermetaj]

http://hamptonroads.com/2009/11/light-rail-will-bring-riders-downtown-what-will-they-see

Gotta love it.

More and more I am loving the vast ideas downtown Norfolk has. Especially lighting for the more beautiful buildings in the city and a real focus on landscaping. More walkable is EVERYTHING for a city. Great idea. Can't wait for the outcome!

[varider]

I agree.

Something that has interested me is the DART light rail system in Texas. Their initial starter line opened in 1996. 14 years later, they have 4 lines with more under construction.

On 3 July 2006, the Federal Transit Administration (FTA) approved a US$700 million Full Funding Grant Agreement (FFGA) — the largest grant ever awarded to DART — to kick-start a US$2.5 billion expansion of the light rail system. Now under construction, this phase will include two new light rail lines that will double DART's existing light rail mileage. Construction began in September 2006, with the first new stations set to open in Fall 2009 in time to provide service to the State Fair of Texas When the project is complete in 2013, DART's light rail system will have doubled to 90 miles (145 km).^[8]

I'm really thinking now that the local governments and HRT need to work to build the extension to the Naval Station and the Oceanfront at the same time. If they gave DART $700M, they can give HRT the $600-$700M it would take to build the two LR extensions. What do you guys think?

[varider]

Edited December 3, 2009 by varider

[varider]

http://www.wtkr.com/videobeta/watch/?watch=eeae53ab-972e-4ad2-a517-bdd9212be994&src=front

WTKR Video.

[brikkman]

http://www.wtkr.com/videobeta/watch/?watch=eeae53ab-972e-4ad2-a517-bdd9212be994&src=front

WTKR Video.

I'm at a point now were I would say, connect it to Chesapeake, Portsmouth, Suffolk, Newport News and Hampton and leave those country folk in Virginia Beach out of the loop. When Norfolk gets a handle of its crime situation and revitalize its neighborhood, they are going to wish they had tapped into this resource of the future.

[ronsmytheiii]

I'm at a point now were I would say, connect it to Chesapeake, Portsmouth, Suffolk, Newport News and Hampton and leave those country folk in Virginia Beach out of the loop. When Norfolk gets a handle of its crime situation and revitalize its neighborhood, they are going to wish they had tapped into this resource of the future.

I didn't get a bad vibe, they are just a little concerned about station design, which is what the city will take into account. They are not up in arms against, they just want a little consideration, much better than what others shout.

[mistermetaj]

I'm at a point now were I would say, connect it to Chesapeake, Portsmouth, Suffolk, Newport News and Hampton and leave those country folk in Virginia Beach out of the loop. When Norfolk gets a handle of its crime situation and revitalize its neighborhood, they are going to wish they had tapped into this resource of the future.

Well, Chesapeake, Portsmouth, Suffolk, NN, and Hampton won't be connecting in the near future, so don't hold your breath.

The only part of that video that may somehow warrant your comment was one man saying he wants his neighborhood to stay quiet. So he wants some sort of traffic mitigating factor, that's not such a terrible thing and should be incorporated in proper LR planning anyway. Aside from that, it looks like LR is essentially a foregone conclusion as they were already showing their plans for stops and talking about the design of stops.

[varider]

Brikkman, with all due respect, how could you say that? Virginia Beach is the largest city in the commmonwealth and arguably the most important city in the region. A regional transit system is NOTHING without the extension through Va Beach.

All the man said was he has concerns about extra noise and traffic. He wants them to design the system right. Just like all of us.

But it does seem like a done deal,mistermetaj.

[vdogg]

I'm at a point now were I would say, connect it to Chesapeake, Portsmouth, Suffolk, Newport News and Hampton and leave those country folk in Virginia Beach out of the loop. When Norfolk gets a handle of its crime situation and revitalize its neighborhood, they are going to wish they had tapped into this resource of the future.

Look, nobody wants this going to the beach more than me. I literally live right down the block from where the birdneck station will be. That said, I also have concerns about station design and location that I hope will be addressed when I go to the convention center meeting. We're all excited about this but lets be careful not to lump legitimate concerns in with the irrational ones you see often posted on the pilot. Asking for traffic and noise mitigation in a traditionally suburban neighborhood is not an unreasonable demand. Homeowners already have to deal with enough jet noise as is, I doubt they want to throw train noise on top of it. All the concerns that man had can be easily addressed with proper sound mitigation and planning. The worse thing we can do however is to dismiss concerns like that out of hand, which in turn will foster resentment and negative attitudes to the light rail project as a whole.

[vdogg]

To add to my earlier statement, safety will also be a BIG concern as this progresses. The neighborhoods these trains will go through have a lot of kids in them, most of whom are not used to living in a big city environment. I guarantee you that the minute some kid gets hit by a train at the beach that will be the end of the light rail experiment for us. What extra precautions do they plan to put in place in these neighborhoods to address these issues? What type of public education program, particularly for kids, do they have planned to teach the public about the dangers that trains can present? These are legitimate issues that I expect to see a lot more of in the coming months and it would behoove us to treat those issues with respect when they arise. When we do bring rail to Va. Beach we need to do it right the first time, or we will risk losing public support for future extensions.

[ronsmytheiii]

To add to my earlier statement, safety will also be a BIG concern as this progresses. The neighborhoods these trains will go through have a lot of kids in them, most of whom are not used to living in a big city environment. I guarantee you that the minute some kid gets hit by a train at the beach that will be the end of the light rail experiment for us. What extra precautions do they plan to put in place in these neighborhoods to address these issues? What type of public education program, particularly for kids, do they have planned to teach the public about the dangers that trains can present? These are legitimate issues that I expect to see a lot more of in the coming months and it would behoove us to treat those issues with respect when they arise. When we do bring rail to Va. Beach we need to do it right the first time, or we will risk losing public support for future extensions.

It was only a few years ago that big old freight locomotives ran down there (I remember them going by my pool) There should still be barriers along the line. I think they are really worried about traffic through the neighbor hood, which could be remedied by building the park and rides on the northern industrial/office area that is part of the Newtown SGA.

[mistermetaj]

To add to my earlier statement, safety will also be a BIG concern as this progresses. The neighborhoods these trains will go through have a lot of kids in them, most of whom are not used to living in a big city environment. I guarantee you that the minute some kid gets hit by a train at the beach that will be the end of the light rail experiment for us. What extra precautions do they plan to put in place in these neighborhoods to address these issues? What type of public education program, particularly for kids, do they have planned to teach the public about the dangers that trains can present? These are legitimate issues that I expect to see a lot more of in the coming months and it would behoove us to treat those issues with respect when they arise. When we do bring rail to Va. Beach we need to do it right the first time, or we will risk losing public support for future extensions.

Outside of downtown areas, especially in smaller neighborhoods, they should like most of the track up to the actual stops with some beautiful black cast iron gating. It would be expensive, but would also prevent most of the danger and would look very classic. I just hope their "barriers" aren't chain linked fences along the track.

[varider]

Outside of downtown areas, especially in smaller neighborhoods, they should like most of the track up to the actual stops with some beautiful black cast iron gating. It would be expensive, but would also prevent most of the danger and would look very classic. I just hope their "barriers" aren't chain linked fences along the track.

I agreee. But I have a feeling that Virginia Beach is going to hook this thing up. It's a "resort city," it better, ha.

I can't wait until we find out the cost, ridership,and station design.

[ronsmytheiii]

Outside of downtown areas, especially in smaller neighborhoods, they should like most of the track up to the actual stops with some beautiful black cast iron gating. It would be expensive, but would also prevent most of the danger and would look very classic. I just hope their "barriers" aren't chain linked fences along the track.

Unfortunately at the Newtown station, chain-link seems to have been installed. Someone should plant some vines to grow on it or shrubs.

[varider]

I don't believe it! A positive piece on the benefits of light rail transit from the Pilot.

It will take time, but those destinations will build significant gravity, attracting customers and new businesses. Neighborhoods strung out along the Elizabeth River will become as central to city life as anyplace. Stores will sprout around each station.

Edited December 4, 2009 by varider

[ronsmytheiii]

I don't believe it! A positive piece on the benefits of light rail transit from the Pilot.

vdogg, did you hack the Pilot and post this?

[cpeakesqr]

vdogg, did you hack the Pilot and post this?

Haha. There's a battle goin' on in the article's comments. Greenum/VBTA vs. Ryto and some other guy.

[varider]

It's a great story/vibe from the Pilot. I love it.

[ronsmytheiii]

Bad news from High-speed rail:

The findings of a state report released Friday that indicates that the most cost-effective way to connect Hampton Roads to a growing national high-speed rail network would be on the Peninsula are being questioned by some leaders in South Hampton Roads. They say the report used outdated information to estimate ridership and inflated some of the costs.

"We're skeptical of how this was produced, on several fronts," said Norfolk Mayor Paul Fraim, who has led an effort by the South Hampton Roads mayors to push for a Southside connection.

Some of the report "just flies in the face of reality," he said.

While the state's Richmond/Hampton Roads Passenger Rail Project report does not indicate a preference among three options, it indicates that running higher-speed trains along the CSX corridor on the Peninsula is the most cost-effective alternative to get local residents to Richmond and beyond.

http://hamptonroads.com/2009/12/city-leaders-data-used-peninsula-train-route-track

Doesnt the state get that the largest population to be served is in the Southside? Are they trying to turn us into an island or something?

[geszes]

I think the State report is overestimating the willingness of Southside residents to drive an hour across the HRBT to Newport News just get to a High-Speed Rail station.

High-Speed Rail would be nice (as always), but the more serious problem is the lack of intra-regional transportation once you get off the train. If in Hampton Roads, your options when you arrive by train from DC or New York are HRT buses and taxis, say good-bye to a stream of visitors and business travelers arriving by train.

On the other hand, if you take the train, currently from Newport News, to DC, Baltimore, New York, or Boston, in each case you disembark in a vibrant urban center, with a plethora of transportation options available to you to get to your intended destination. You can even walk to many downtown locations; good luck trying that here.

The Peninsula alternative for High-Speed Rail would benefit every metro along the Northeast Corridor more than it'd benefit Hampton Roads, as it would make it easier to leave Hampton Roads, but not any easier to arrive here. Not only does the Peninsula lack a proper Central Business District (Patrick Henry-Oyster Point? Coliseum?) that could host a station of such caliber, but its transportation links to the other two-thirds of the metro's population are notoriously bad!

At least the Southside option would connect to the outside world with Downtown Norfolk, provided they can get the tracks across the Eastern Branch of the Elizabeth River near Harbor Park. (Sorry, train is delayed 20 minutes because drawbridge is open...) It'd also connect to the Tide Starter Line, allowing travel to a number of points of interests in Norfolk (and hopefully, eventually Virginia Beach).

The ideal solution would be High-Speed Rail to either the Southside or the Peninsula AND a robust commuter rail connection between the Southside and the Peninsula. Think above-ground DC Metro; to shuttle people across the Harbor.

For this reason, all attempts should be made to persuade State and Federal agencies that such an intra-region connection is necessary to properly serve our disjointed metro. Until that is possible, the alternative must be chosen that comes closest to providing the level of service that the area needs, and that is the Southside option; not because it's the more populated area of the metro, but because it has better multi-modal connections with the most points of interests in the entirety of Hampton Roads.

[ronsmytheiii]

This is what I fear will happen with our terrible drivers and light rail:

[varider]

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised.

I'm anxious for the opening of the line. I can't wait to see ridership numbers.

[urbanlife]

This is what I fear will happen with our terrible drivers and light rail:

Thats what you fear? I am still waiting for a train, bus, car, bike, pedestrian accident to happen in Portland...we have the set up for that to happen, it is just a matter of time now.