Hue

[Tico]

"We're definitely in the neighborhood of eight to ten,"....out of 205!

I think if this lease/purchase option flails, the building will be ultimately converted to apartments.. which is a good thing because we really need more apartments downtown.

[Gard]

HUE is now "closed until further notice."

Wish the sign actually read "closed for demolition."

http://blogs.newsobserver.com/business/empty-hue-condo-building-now-closed-until-further-notice

[DPK]

HUE is now "closed until further notice."

They should just convert all the units to apartments. They'd fill up quickly with Campbell Law next door. There's such a need for more rentals downtown. Hue in my opinion is not condo quality. It looks cheaply built. It's got an apartment feel to it.

[Captain Awesome]

I totally agree. Hue as condos didn't work. Hue as apartments is an good opportunity for a company with the where-with-all to make it happen.

[Jones_]

TCR picked great locations but put up crappy buildings. 222 feels the same as Hue on the inside. A hotel at best. More like apartments though. Quite the opposite of buildings like West, Paramount, and the unbuilt 111 Seaboard which were great buildings in crappy locations (Paramount lucked up by hitting the surge in downtown living and having low entry prices....it would look much better wedged down in the warehouse district near CAM or other similar setting).

[DPK]

I love the WRAL golo-stupid commentary on this:

http://www.wral.com/golo/page/1896337/?id=7682226

Got to love the armchair idiots who can't fathom why people would want to live downtown. WON'T SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!?!? * brain explodes *

I swear I don't get how people can be that narrow minded. If I ever get like that, just ban me from here or something as a wake up call.

[miamiblue]

I love the WRAL golo-stupid commentary on this:

http://www.wral.com/...337/?id=7682226

Got to love the armchair idiots who can't fathom why people would want to live downtown. WON'T SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!?!? * brain explodes *

I swear I don't get how people can be that narrow minded. If I ever get like that, just ban me from here or something as a wake up call.

I become scared for humanity whenever I read the go-lo comments, so I try not to look at them. I am amazed that some of the commenters actually have an internet connection out in whatever BFE they're commenting from. Clearly there's not much for them to do if they are sitting on go-lo cutting down on the city folk all the time.

Honestly, I feel that Hue was too idealistic of a project at this point in time for downtown. I love downtown Raleigh, live there, and hope to be able to buy a place there at some point, but I just don't feel like it is a 650 sq ft studio condo town just yet. A 650 sq ft studio apartment will rent, but I don't see too many people clamoring to purchase something like that right now.

712 Tucker got it right. They saw the writing on the wall when the housing boom was happening, made the right move and appear to be doing well. Hopefully Hue will follow and convert to apartments (albeit a day late and many thousands of dollars short) and take advantage of a housing segment that is currently all but ignored in downtown Raleigh.

[RaleighRob]

I too agree that as apartments, Hue would fill up. Campbell Law students will take many of the spaces, for sure.

And many of the folks who live in some of the older West Morgan area apartments (Boylan, Cameron Court, Grosvenor, etc etc) would probably go for them as an Upgrade. (Those places have no washer/dryer or dishwashers, and very tiny closets, for example.)

The only caveat is that I don't think Hue would get away with rents as high as 712 Tucker. Anything more than 900/month for a one-bedroom would be pushing the limits of the market, IMO.

[citiboi27610]

http://www.newsobserver.com/2010/05/28/504370/hue-condo-sales-stop-no-units.html

I agree with the suggestion to rent the units as apartments. I haven't been inside but the outside isn't all that bad in my opinion. The location is great, and things can only get better if more diverse people -- financial status -- live in this area.

My question is how much money do you all predict will be lost by selling as apartments instead of condos? And if they had built as apartments from the beginning, how would that have changed the appearance or the overall result? It seems that despite the desire for apartments downtown, that it isn't a desirable for real estate developers.

*edited*

[Jones_]

http://www.newsobserver.com/2010/05/28/504370/hue-condo-sales-stop-no-units.html

I agree with the suggestion to sale the units as condos. I haven't been inside but the outside isn't all that bad in my opinion. The location is great, and things can only get better if more diverse people -- financial status -- live in this area.

My question is how much money do you all predict will be lost by selling as apartments instead of condos? And if they had built as apartments from the beginning, how would that have changed the appearance or the overall result? It seems that despite the desire for apartments downtown, that it isn't a desirable for real estate developers.

^I am not really sure what you are saying. The suggestions were to *rent* them as apartments. Rental return on investment versus return on assets sold is an entirely different calculation. I think this is probably dictated by investment and/or financing agreements. Rentals are usually cheaper materials, sure, but Hue is not a cheaper upfit than Tucker. Concrete vs. stick construction probably narrowed any profit margin for Hue but that's what you have to do to add those extra 4 stories.

Hue would rent about like Tucker...about $1 per sqft/month...little more on the smaller units.

[Gard]

The Hue is now in possession of the lender. The developer turned over the deed to avoid foreclosure. At this point, what happens is completely up in the air and they could easily sell the whole unit to an apartment rental company or have a fire sale on condos. There IS, according to the article, a group of investors trying to pool money together and buy it for conversion to apartments:

http://www.newsobser...hue-condos.html

[RaleighRob]

Hue is now Leasing:

Interestingly, they haven't posted the rental rates on their new site.

But the Downtowner posted this on theirs: http://www.raleighdowntowner.com/hue-lease-pricing.jpg

Studios at $995 on up to 2BR for $2300 per month.

Anyone wanna guess what kinda hallucinogens they're doped up on if they're asking these types of rates on that building in this economy?

[miamiblue]

Hue is now Leasing: http://www.huedowntownliving.com/

Interestingly, they haven't posted the rental rates on their new site.

But the Downtowner posted this on theirs: http://www.raleighdo...ase-pricing.jpg

Studios at $995 on up to 2BR for $2300 per month.

Anyone wanna guess what kinda hallucinogens they're doped up on if they're asking these types of rates on that building in this economy?

It's about time!

While I agree that the rental rates are a bit steep (to say the least), they are actually not that far off from what 712 Tucker is asking for their units, and they seem to be pretty well leased: http://www.712tucker...rplans-pricing/

(Who are these people, and how can I get a job like theirs?)

[kermit]

The Hue is now in possession of the lender. The developer turned over the deed to avoid foreclosure. At this point, what happens is completely up in the air and they could easily sell the whole unit to an apartment rental company or have a fire sale on condos. There IS, according to the article, a group of investors trying to pool money together and buy it for conversion to apartments:

http://www.newsobser...hue-condos.html

Looks like the Hue was sold "for more than $30 million" to a Memphis-based property manager

http://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/stories/2010/08/16/daily33.html?ana=e_du_pap

[NCMike1981]

Unfortunately looks like I'm stuck in North Raleigh at those rates :-/

[RaleighRob]

(Who are these people, and how can I get a job like theirs?)

That's the biggest question I have too!

One would think that if you're a doctor or lawyer and have that much money per month, you'd be buying a condo or house, not renting an apartment!

[RALNATIVE]

That's the biggest question I have too!

One would think that if you're a doctor or lawyer and have that much money per month, you'd be buying a condo or house, not renting an apartment!

I saw this coming a few years ago when they first revealed plans to build this disaster. I live next to this complex and had the opportunity to speak directly with the developer. It was clear that they were only in it for a quick buck, and had no backup plan in case this development went south...which it did! They were riding the downtown development wave at a time when the real estate market looked like it was about to explode. Now we are stuck with a complex that was built based on a market pricing model for condos, that they are now trying to lease as apartments. It's going to become an even bigger catastrophe than it is now.

Anyone with half a brain (in the Raleigh market that is) is not going to shell out 1-2 grand per month to live in an apartment at this place. It just doesn't make financial sense. If this were NYC or San Francisco or Boston, then it would be a different story. They are going to have a very, very hard time getting all of those units occupied.

What will eventually happen is that this complex will turn into the projects.

[miamiblue]

I saw this coming a few years ago when they first revealed plans to build this disaster. I live next to this complex and had the opportunity to speak directly with the developer. It was clear that they were only in it for a quick buck, and had no backup plan in case this development went south...which it did! They were riding the downtown development wave at a time when the real estate market looked like it was about to explode. Now we are stuck with a complex what was built based on a market pricing model for condos, that they are now trying to lease as apartments. It's going to become an even bigger catastrophe than it is now.

Anyone with a brain (in the Raleigh market that is) is not going to shell out a grand per month to live in this place as an apartment. It just doesn't make financial sense. If this were NYC or San Francisco or Boston, that would be different. They are going to have a very, very hard time occupying all of those units.

What will eventually happen is that this complex will turn into the projects.

I don't know. Like I said before, I personally can't see paying that kind of money for an apartment, but clearly some people don't have much of a problem with it. 712 Tucker is priced right in line with the Hue's pricing, and it seems as if they are not having too much of a problem leasing their units. Again, I have no idea who these people are and what their rationale is for paying that much rent, but they're out there and there is really only one other straight up apartment building in downtown Raleigh that Hue is competing with. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

[Jones_]

I agree that this project is a disaster in many ways but Raleigh can and does support this type of rent. (San Fran and Boston are 2-3 times Raleigh and NYC is 5-10x in some places...I stayed in a crappy 2 bedroom about 600 sqft for $5750 a month) Someone making 50k a year can and does easily pay this rent...no need to be a lawyer or doctor. Entry level engineers, mid range chefs, scientists of all types, nurses, med range teachers...lots of people make this. Having said that, the big question in my mind is that is the architecture conservative or yuppy enough to pull in folks who want to live downtown and pay this rent. Tucker is a clear yes with its tan and beige. It is the more affluent cousin of The Wade which is more or less Jersey Shore on a saturday at the pool. Hue is like the fat pimply cousin of Boylan Flats....which as we know never got built because Raleigh can't command that price with that architecture (Boylans Flats and Hue having some similarities to me with the gray blocky build ). I predict they get 50-60 rented pretty fast, and by Christmas have turned the corner on 100, but it could a long while before they get all 200-whatever filled.

[RALNATIVE]

I pray that you guys are right. You're alot more optimistic about this than I am. I'm just overly concerned that this will eventually start to have a negative impact on property values in the area. I haven't discussed this with any of my neighbors, but i'm sure that they share the same concerns.

[RaleighRob]

Someone making 50k a year can and does easily pay this rent...no need to be a lawyer or doctor. Entry level engineers, mid range chefs, scientists of all types, nurses, med range teachers...lots of people make this.

Uh...yeah ok.

I guess I fit in the "scientist" category...but not entry-level. 10 years under my belt and I still don't yet make 50k. And very few who work for downtown's biggest employer---government---do. (Until maybe by their 40s, and most of them are commuting in from their suburban houses with 2.5 kids and picket fence.)

And even if I do finally get to 50k, I'd be hard-pressed to live in anything bigger than the studio at those rates. Especially with the cost of living these days! And then what good is it when I'd have very little left over to enjoy the downtown stuff like bars, restaurants, shops, etc?

To stay on-topic, I guess my point...and major source of irritation...is that the very group of people who most would want to live downtown...and would be most enthusiastic at doing so...the young single workers...can't hardly afford squat of what is actually available downtown. And it seems like nobody running this city gives a hoot.

[RALNATIVE]

Uh...yeah ok.

I guess I fit in the "scientist" category...but not entry-level. 10 years under my belt and I still don't yet make 50k. And very few who work for downtown's biggest employer---government---do. (Until maybe by their 40s, and most of them are commuting in from their suburban houses with 2.5 kids and picket fence.)

And even if I do finally get to 50k, I'd be hard-pressed to live in anything bigger than the studio at those rates. Especially with the cost of living these days! And then what good is it when I'd have very little left over to enjoy the downtown stuff like bars, restaurants, shops, etc?

Rob I applaud you for being realistic about what you can actually afford, because unfortunately most people are not. To be honest, it is not reasonable to expect someone making $40-50K to be able to afford 1.5 - 2 grand per month in rent. They would be paying almost half of their take home pay in rent. I'm sorry, but this just does not make good sense. Especially when this demographic also has to pay other large monthly bills such as student loans, credit cards, and car payments. Not to mention save some for the future. This is the type of thinking that has gotten us in the financial crisis that we are currently in.

[tdiddyncsu]

I guess I fall into the somewhat optimistic yet somewhat pessimistic category. I think that the building will do well it's first year or so as rentals, but then what? The rates don't have too much room to rise from where they are now. If they can keep them pretty stable I would assume that things will be okay. Don't forget Campbell Law School is just a block away as well. Plenty of need for rentals in that area. Also, I know that at least as of the first day available to reserve rentals, they already had about 10 spoken for. Not sure how it's been going sense but not a bad start for a company that just purchased the building 4 days prior.

[Gard]

New Hue owner reporting that 11 leases have been signed so far and 65 prospective tenants have toured the building...

http://www.newsobserver.com/2010/08/31/655947/hue-building-no-longer-empty.html

[Jones_]

and 4 moved in. And they are happy with those numbers so far. No marketing to date.