Upscale Hotels in Northwest Arkansas

[countrylivin']

Yeah while all this has been going on with the Cosmo, I've also been wondering about the Renaissance lot as well. If someone came in and really did a good overhaul to the Cosmo, maybe the need for a Renaissance hotel wouldn't be as much. But considering we didn't get the Renaissance and the current state of the Cosmo. It's really just disappointing.

To begin with there is nothing wrong with the bones of the building, it would be insane to tear it down and start over! At a minimum you're talking a million dollars a floor just for concrete and steel. The problem with the Hilton/Radisson/Cosmo is it has for years been owned by vampires who sucked every dime possible out of it and never put anything back in! You are right, what it needs most is a complete renovation from the ground up and a lot of TLC. Secondly, the need for the Renaissance goes further than just a need for an upscale hotel! Even when the Cosmo gets a complete overhaul and has all 230 rooms back up and running there still won't be enough guest rooms within walking distance of the Town Center to allow Fayetteville to go after the larger events and conventions. A renovated Cosmo and a new hotel could do as much to transform the downtown square as WAC did for Dickson! The problem with a new hotel is you would have to run a $200 ADR and a 60% occupancy to cover the dept service and until the economy turns around I don't think that's possible.

[LRguy21]

speaking of the Renn hotel, has anything new come out of it since the temp parking lot was paved? And I remember seeing something that says after a set date, a "approved" parking lot has to be paved in its place. One that consists of medians with trees and real plants? Just anything to help that corner! it looks like Sh!t.

I hope this means that the cosmo renovations will come to start. Once that happens, it will become one, if not the most premier hotels in NWA. I just wish it had more meeting space, but i guess that's what the town-center is for.

[comreguy]

speaking of the Renn hotel, has anything new come out of it since the temp parking lot was paved? And I remember seeing something that says after a set date, a "approved" parking lot has to be paved in its place. One that consists of medians with trees and real plants? Just anything to help that corner! it looks like Sh!t.

I hope this means that the cosmo renovations will come to start. Once that happens, it will become one, if not the most premier hotels in NWA. I just wish it had more meeting space, but i guess that's what the town-center is for.

I wouldn't expect anything to happen to that corner anytime soon.

[Mith242]

I wouldn't expect anything to happen to that corner anytime soon.

I've got to agree. I think those plans were made back before the economy went down. While I still try to have hopes that eventually the Renaissance project might again have some life to it. I wouldn't be surprised if we end up having to start the whole process over again, perhaps with another hotel chain. And no telling how long that would happen. As countrylivin' said, until the economy gets better I can't see there being any progress on a hotel at that location. I do think there is a long term need for another hotel in the downtown area even after the Cosmo is renovated. But depending on how well the Cosmo is renovated might play a factor as well. If the Cosmo gets a minimal renovation I can see there being a more serious push to put in another downtown hotel. But if someone went all out and really did a major renovation to the Cosmo, I think it's possible that it could delay another hotel to a certain degree.

[mzweig]

I've got to agree. I think those plans were made back before the economy went down. While I still try to have hopes that eventually the Renaissance project might again have some life to it. I wouldn't be surprised if we end up having to start the whole process over again, perhaps with another hotel chain. And no telling how long that would happen. As countrylivin' said, until the economy gets better I can't see there being any progress on a hotel at that location. I do think there is a long term need for another hotel in the downtown area even after the Cosmo is renovated. But depending on how well the Cosmo is renovated might play a factor as well. If the Cosmo gets a minimal renovation I can see there being a more serious push to put in another downtown hotel. But if someone went all out and really did a major renovation to the Cosmo, I think it's possible that it could delay another hotel to a certain degree.

You could be right but John Nock's view was that they would be synergistic. I would not count out Nock yet--he's pretty resourceful. And regardless of what has come to pass you cannot deny that he did have vision. He just thinks in a longer time horizon than most other folks.....

Mark

[Mith242]

You could be right but John Nock's view was that they would be synergistic. I would not count out Nock yet--he's pretty resourceful. And regardless of what has come to pass you cannot deny that he did have vision. He just thinks in a longer time horizon than most other folks.....

Mark

True, and I think everybody has to admit his vision has been better than say Barber's. I do think it's possible for the two hotels when built to be synergistic. But with so many other factors coming into play, I'm just not sure how that's going to work out. If Nock manages to pull all of this off, great. I have nothing against him at all. But at this point I'd just like to see something happen. If someone else is able to do that, then no offense to Nock, but good luck to them.

[zman9810]

I would hope that the two downtown hotels, if the RenTower were built, would be owned by the same group. Competition is good and all but it would be better to compete with the hotels in the other cities in the metro rather than with each other. A price war downtown wouldn't serve either hotel's best interests.

[wmr]

True, and I think everybody has to admit his vision has been better than say Barber's. I do think it's possible for the two hotels when built to be synergistic. But with so many other factors coming into play, I'm just not sure how that's going to work out. If Nock manages to pull all of this off, great. I have nothing against him at all. But at this point I'd just like to see something happen. If someone else is able to do that, then no offense to Nock, but good luck to them.

Nock does design handsome projects. I sure wish him nothing but the best.

[countrylivin']

True, and I think everybody has to admit his vision has been better than say Barber's. I do think it's possible for the two hotels when built to be synergistic. But with so many other factors coming into play, I'm just not sure how that's going to work out. If Nock manages to pull all of this off, great. I have nothing against him at all. But at this point I'd just like to see something happen. If someone else is able to do that, then no offense to Nock, but good luck to them.

I agree with you about John's vision. He's also smart enough to bring in arcitects like Marlon Blackwell and interior design firms like Flick.Mars out of Dallas. His main problem with the Cosmo was he never really understood that he had bought a business not just a building. He never showed any interest in the in's and out's of the business and refused to take the advice of people with many years of experience. Anyone who's been in the business for any lenght of time knows there's two ways to remodel. If you have the money you close it down and remodel top to bottom. This is normally done by Corporate owned properties. Franchise and independent properties normally do 10% to 20% of the rooms at a time. John's mistake was closing down 50% of the rooms because a hotel needs to average a 60% occupancy to make a profit. With 80% of it's rooms the hotel could be paying for it's own renovation but with only 50% it can't pay it's bills.

[Mith242]

I agree with you about John's vision. He's also smart enough to bring in architects like Marlon Blackwell and interior design firms like Flick.Mars out of Dallas. His main problem with the Cosmo was he never really understood that he had bought a business not just a building. He never showed any interest in the in's and out's of the business and refused to take the advice of people with many years of experience. Anyone who's been in the business for any length of time knows there's two ways to remodel. If you have the money you close it down and remodel top to bottom. This is normally done by Corporate owned properties. Franchise and independent properties normally do 10% to 20% of the rooms at a time. John's mistake was closing down 50% of the rooms because a hotel needs to average a 60% occupancy to make a profit. With 80% of it's rooms the hotel could be paying for it's own renovation but with only 50% it can't pay it's bills.

Thanks for the info. That's certainly more than what I knew about the hotel business.

[comreguy]

Nock does design handsome projects. I sure wish him nothing but the best.

Everything looks pretty on paper. What has he built that has been successful?

[wmr]

Everything looks pretty on paper. What has he built that has been successful?

Notice I said he "designs" handsome projects.

[mzweig]

Everything looks pretty on paper. What has he built that has been successful?

He was part of the team that redid the old library (the Fulbright Building) on Dickson. He also did Rupple Row, which on many levels has been a success. And he was part of the team that did Bank of America off the square...

M

[comreguy]

He was part of the team that redid the old library (the Fulbright Building) on Dickson. He also did Rupple Row, which on many levels has been a success. And he was part of the team that did Bank of America off the square...

M

Nevermind...Shouldn't post when angry...

[thewizard16]

Everything looks pretty on paper. What has he built that has been successful?

"He was part of the team that redid the old library (the Fulbright Building) on Dickson. He also did Rupple Row, which on many levels has been a success. And he was part of the team that did Bank of America off the square...

M "

Agreed. Also, short term "success" has translated into going for the the same crappy sprawl-type developments, strip malls, and McMansions that continue to ruin the atmosphere of the area as having any sort of personality. Nock may plan poorly for the short term, but it does seem like in twenty years I'll still be liking his projects, instead of looking at another run-down half-empty strip mall or crumbling cheaply built, over priced McMansion no one wants anymore.

I understand the frustrations people will have with him from a business perspective, but from a development perspective, I think diving in for short term success and profit is part of what got our country into this economic mess, progressively killed downtowns, and it's certainly didn't help the housing bubble.

[zman9810]

Nock had a hand in Underwood Plaza. While it may have slow sales now it is still a landmark building in town and will eventually be full.

[LRguy21]

Any news on the Cosmo? Every time I look at the building i just think that Fayetteville deserves something better than that.

[Mith242]

Any news on the Cosmo? Every time I look at the building i just think that Fayetteville deserves something better than that.

Certainly won't disagree with you there. Honestly I haven't heard anything in a while. I'm guessing the bank has taken over and will be quietly deciding what it's going to do with the property.

[thewizard16]

Certainly won't disagree with you there. Honestly I haven't heard anything in a while. I'm guessing the bank has taken over and will be quietly deciding what it's going to do with the property.

The last article I'd seen was a few weeks ago, but it mentioned that the management company being brought in by ANB Ventures had experience in turning around large under-performing hotels and there was some mention in there of plans to finish out the renovations in the foreseeable future/discuss rejoining a major chain. The article is now in archives on the NWA online site though, so I can't get to full text anymore. I imagine it'll be at least a year before we see significant progress there, and I certainly hope the company ANB Ventures is bringing in isn't the same group of crooks that ran the apartment complex that ANB Ventures was involved in (that I mentioned a year and a half ago or so), but it'll be good to see some level of activity at that hotel and a focus on getting it back on track.

[thewizard16]

Certainly won't disagree with you there. Honestly I haven't heard anything in a while. I'm guessing the bank has taken over and will be quietly deciding what it's going to do with the property.

The last article I'd seen was a few weeks ago, but it mentioned that the management company being brought in by ANB Ventures had experience in turning around large under-performing hotels and there was some mention in there of plans to finish out the renovations in the foreseeable future/discuss rejoining a major chain. The article is now in archives on the NWA online site though, so I can't get to full text anymore. I imagine it'll be at least a year before we see significant progress there, and I certainly hope the company ANB Ventures is bringing in isn't the same group of crooks that ran the apartment complex that ANB Ventures was involved in (that I mentioned a year and a half ago or so), but it'll be good to see some level of activity at that hotel and a focus on getting it back on track.

[countrylivin']

There are lots of rumours, everything from Crowne Plaza to Marriott Autograph Collection! The only thing that's certain is that the current management company, Chandler Hotel Group, Is the real deal. They're out of Scottsdale Az and along with the management side have a brokerage, construction and ff&e division. They specialize in turning under preforming hotels around. Lets hope they go fist class and upscale, it would really give a boost to the entire area!

Any news on the Cosmo? Every time I look at the building i just think that Fayetteville deserves something better than that.

[Mith242]

There are lots of rumours, everything from Crowne Plaza to Marriott Autograph Collection! The only thing that's certain is that the current management company, Chandler Hotel Group, Is the real deal. They're out of Scottsdale Az and along with the management side have a brokerage, construction and ff&e division. They specialize in turning under preforming hotels around. Lets hope they go fist class and upscale, it would really give a boost to the entire area!

Cool, thanks for the update.

[thewizard16]

There are lots of rumours, everything from Crowne Plaza to Marriott Autograph Collection! The only thing that's certain is that the current management company, Chandler Hotel Group, Is the real deal. They're out of Scottsdale Az and along with the management side have a brokerage, construction and ff&e division. They specialize in turning under preforming hotels around. Lets hope they go fist class and upscale, it would really give a boost to the entire area!

I doubt Hilton or Radisson would come back, but something like Crowne Plaza would be just about perfect for that location, and would prime the downtown market for a higher-end hotel in the long term. I think we even had this conversation in here before, or I'm just having deja vu. I hope this group can get some new life in that hotel, because as many have said- there's a lot of potential there.

[zman9810]

I doubt Hilton or Radisson would come back, but something like Crowne Plaza would be just about perfect for that location, and would prime the downtown market for a higher-end hotel in the long term. I think we even had this conversation in here before, or I'm just having deja vu. I hope this group can get some new life in that hotel, because as many have said- there's a lot of potential there.

I know the owners had the best intention to "freshen up" the hotel when they painted it stark white but I'm concerned that that the exterior alone will scare off potential brands. IMO it looked so much better with the original brick color and could have been freshened up better with new signage, maybe a sloped roof and a good cleaning. The interior is probably more important anyway and that can still be finished out in a attractive manner.

[thewizard16]

I know the owners had the best intention to "freshen up" the hotel when they painted it stark white but I'm concerned that that the exterior alone will scare off potential brands. IMO it looked so much better with the original brick color and could have been freshened up better with new signage, maybe a sloped roof and a good cleaning. The interior is probably more important anyway and that can still be finished out in a attractive manner.

I'm sure they did, they just didn't plan very well and the "freshening up" never finished.

As far as scaring off potential brands.... Maybe, but if the new management is serious and intent on luring a chain in, repainting the hotel is relatively minor step to make that happen. I'm not a huge fan of the "new" paint job, but the old one wasn't ideal either. I don't know what could make it look good aside from a whole new skin, which is unlikely. A sloped roof, etc. is probably unnecessary. There are a lot of really bland looking, yet nice, Crowne Plazas and similar out there.