Pembroke Mall Revelopment (Ongoing-Phase 1)

[HRVT]

On 12/22/2023 at 7:43 PM, KJHburg said:

My bet would be a high end steakhouse like a Capital Grille (which is fantastic) or Del Friscos or Flemings or Mortons if you don't have any of these.  All of these look for wealth for sure and if they are not in your market then its a possibility. 

 

Capital Grille or Fleming's are the best bets IMO. I'm actually kind of surprised there isn't already a Flemings in Hampton Roads to be honest.

[baobabs727]

On 12/26/2023 at 1:39 AM, HRVT said:

Capital Grille or Fleming's are the best bets IMO. I'm actually kind of surprised there isn't already a Flemings in Hampton Roads to be honest.

He said a single operator bringing two restaurants. Capital Grille is owned by Darden, while Fleming's is owned by Bloomin Brands. Bloomin doesn't own anything else that could be considered upscale, I don't think. So I'm guessing it's Darden. Also they already have several restaurants in our market, and their credit rating is probably the highest among all of the large chain operators. 

[HRVT]

21 hours ago, baobabs727 said:

He said a single operator bringing two restaurants. Capital Grille is owned by Darden, while Fleming's is owned by Bloomin Brands. Bloomin doesn't own anything else that could be considered upscale, I don't think. So I'm guessing it's Darden. Also they already have several restaurants in our market, and their credit rating is probably the highest among all of the large chain operators. 

Well I said "or" rather than "and".

But with two, Darden makes sense. Another possibility is Landry's. They operate a number of chains including Morton's, Bubba Gump Shrimp Company and many others. Chart House would be a potentially excellent grab as well though I doubt they come to VB and not end up on the water.

Just a guess at the two restaurants for giggles: Morton's and Houlihans. 

Edited December 28, 2023 by HRVT

[baobabs727]

Couldn't be Flemings, even with the random "or" added because Bloomin Brands doesn't operate another upscale concept.  He said two upscale restaurants from one operator. Accordingly, only your response of "Capital Grille" could qualify as a possibility here.  

[KJHburg]

Then my guess would be something from Landry.  They have plenty of upscale restaurants chains in their collections.

Landry's Dining Brands | Landry's Inc. (landrysinc.com)  Like a Mortons and McCormick and Schmicks which despite saying it is casual on their website it is pretty upmarket in pricing.  Oceanaire which we used to have in Charlotte is pretty upscale too. 

 

[metalman]

We used to have Mc. &Schmicks.  It left and was replaced with Legal Seafood last year.

Edited January 3 by metalman

[HRVT]

21 hours ago, baobabs727 said:

Couldn't be Flemings, even with the random "or" added because Bloomin Brands doesn't operate another upscale concept.  He said two upscale restaurants from one operator. Accordingly, only your response of "Capital Grille" could qualify as a possibility here.  

Unless Bloomin Brands is acquiring another concept... we can agree thats not likely though.

I think Landry makes by far the most sense and my guesses are locked in on the previous post. Houlihan's as upscale may be a bit of a reach... but that wouldn't be unusual with regard to development-speak.

Edited January 3 by HRVT

[baobabs727]

3 hours ago, HRVT said:

Unless Bloomin Brands is acquiring another concept... we can agree thats not likely though.

I think Landry makes by far the most sense and my guesses are locked in on the previous post. Houlihan's as upscale may be a bit of a reach... but that wouldn't be unusual with regard to development-speak.

Yes, Landry's has some TRULY upscale offerings which, unfortunately, I believe are likely out of our reach.  But who knows.

Late last year, Darden completed its acquisition of Ruth's Chris Steak, so I think that pretty much eliminates any chance of Darden's The Capital Grille with its heavy steak focus coming to Pembroke Square. Ruth's Chris and TCG would eat each other alive.  Accordingly, I think I'll stick with my prediction of Darden's Eddie V's and Seasons52.  Eddie V's focuses heavily on fresh seafood with some steaks thrown in for the beef lover in you, and their avg. per person ticket approaches $100.00.  Seasons52 delivers a fresh, seasonal and varied menu and carries a much lower avg. per person ticket at around $55-60....a figure which is still considerably higher than sister restaurants Bahama Breeze and Yard House....  Those two concepts also happen to be located in Town Center/Pembroke.  So if Darden brings two more, Town Center/Pembroke would then boast 5 of Darden's 8 concepts. YMMV...and I have ZERO insider info.  

 

[HRVT]

1 hour ago, baobabs727 said:

Yes, Landry's has some TRULY upscale offerings which, unfortunately, I believe are likely out of our reach.  But who knows.

Late last year, Darden completed its acquisition of Ruth's Chris Steak, so I think that pretty much eliminates any chance of Darden's The Capital Grille with its heavy steak focus coming to Pembroke Square. Ruth's Chris and TCG would eat each other alive.  Accordingly, I think I'll stick with my prediction of Darden's Eddie V's and Seasons52.  Eddie V's focuses heavily on fresh seafood with some steaks thrown in for the beef lover in you, and their avg. per person ticket approaches $100.00.  Seasons52 delivers a fresh, seasonal and varied menu and carries a much lower avg. per person ticket at around $55-60....a figure which is still considerably higher than sister restaurants Bahama Breeze and Yard House....  Those two concepts also happen to be located in Town Center/Pembroke.  So if Darden brings two more, Town Center/Pembroke would then boast 5 of Darden's 8 concepts. YMMV...and I have ZERO insider info.  

 

Two good guesses as well.

[KJHburg]

Here is another possiblity we are getting one here in Charlotte from Landry is Dos Caminos which is an upscale Mexican restaurant that started in NYC that Landry bought.   Since they are coming south maybe a location in Va Beach along with another Landry restaurant.  Charlotte has some chef driven upscale Mexican places like Superica which is from Atlanta but my friends who lived in NYC say Dos Caminos is really good and popular there.

Dos Caminos | Mexican Restaurant in New York, NY

[mintscraft56]

Any new renderings on this? Driving down to TC, I can definitely see things rising vertically from pembroke. I would like to know what this will look like.  

[baobabs727]

18 hours ago, mintscraft56 said:

Any new renderings on this? Driving down to TC, I can definitely see things rising vertically from pembroke. I would like to know what this will look like.  

Renders of the reduced height apartment building and hotel will follow the redesign, which is under development.  

Edited January 9 by baobabs727

[mintscraft56]

2 hours ago, baobabs727 said:

Renders of the reduced height apartment building and hotel will follow the redesign, which is under development.  

Ughhhh. How much reduced? I cant believe its reduced again.

[baobabs727]

52 minutes ago, mintscraft56 said:

Ughhhh. How much reduced? I cant believe its reduced again.

No, they've only been reduced once. That reduction is now final.

[HRVA]

Demolition has begun:

https://www.wavy.com/news/local-news/virginia-beach/roof-to-get-ripped-off-at-former-pembroke-mall-to-make-room-for-living-spaces/amp/

https://www.wtkr.com/news/in-the-community/virginia-beach/watch-pembroke-mall-getting-demolished-for-redevelopment-project

[baobabs727]

Bam!

[mintscraft56]

19 hours ago, HRVA said:

Demolition has begun:

https://www.wavy.com/news/local-news/virginia-beach/roof-to-get-ripped-off-at-former-pembroke-mall-to-make-room-for-living-spaces/amp/

https://www.wtkr.com/news/in-the-community/virginia-beach/watch-pembroke-mall-getting-demolished-for-redevelopment-project

It's about time. When do they expect to level it completely and begin construction on the site? 

[HRVA]

4 hours ago, mintscraft56 said:

It's about time. When do they expect to level it completely and begin construction on the site? 

From the WAVY article: 

• Phase 1: Aviva Pembroke, a senior living community. Located at the corner of Jeanne Street and Constitution Drive. It’s expected to open in the winter of 2024. 
• Phase 2: Tempo by Hilton, a hotel. Construction is expected to start in early 2025. The hotel could open late 2026.
• Phase 3: Luxury apartments. The redevelopment is expected to be finished by 2027.

No clear timeline for when phase 3 will start but with a 2027 completion I would say no earlier than late this year but more likely sometime next year. The demo is a complicated one both in size and how much isn’t being demoed so I would expect this stage to take the better part of the rest of the year. 

Updated hotel rendering added to the WAVY article:

[baobabs727]

Great scoop. I was just about to write to Mr. Smith. Ok, so I actually like the re-design.  I mean, it is what it is... at 7 stories...but they made the best of it (for the budget conscious developer)...and...I like the massing along that block.  Nice and long, really nearly 8 stories with the roof cap.  Also, I'm glad it's a TEMPO.

I wonder when the new restaurant concept will take shape at the old Romano's Macaroni Grill? Will they wait until the Tempo is complete to begin construction/renovations? Or will they start now and finish up before hotel construction begins? Will be interesting to see the apartment renders.

Is anyone here talented/skilled enough to merge this render with a google street view of the actual block in question?    @mintscraft56 ?

https://www.13newsnow.com/article/news/local/mycity/virginia-beach/former-pembroke-mall-virginia-beach-demolition-begins/291-d2931bc3-416d-431d-8c67-1de55bee0dca

https://www.virginiabusiness.com/article/pembroke-square-starts-phase-2-of-mall-redevelopment/

Unfortunately, as we knew, the garage for the apartments will now be situated NEXT to the bldg. instead of being incorporated beneath it. UGH. That is terrible.

Edited March 26 by baobabs727

[baobabs727]

New Restaurant Concept for the Macaroni Grill site to open...potentially...by the end of this year.  Looks like  a reno then.  

[HRVT]

3 hours ago, baobabs727 said:

Great scoop. I was just about to write to Mr. Smith. Ok, so I actually like the re-design.  I mean, it is what it is... at 7 stories...but they made the best of it (for the budget conscious developer)...and...I like the massing along that block.  Nice and long, really nearly 8 stories with the roof cap.  Also, I'm glad it's a TEMPO.

I wonder when the new restaurant concept will take shape at the old Romano's Macaroni Grill? Will they wait until the Tempo is complete to begin construction/renovations? Or will they start now and finish up before hotel construction begins? Will be interesting to see the apartment renders.

Is anyone here talented/skilled enough to merge this render with a google street view of the actual block in question?    @mintscraft56 ?

https://www.13newsnow.com/article/news/local/mycity/virginia-beach/former-pembroke-mall-virginia-beach-demolition-begins/291-d2931bc3-416d-431d-8c67-1de55bee0dca

https://www.virginiabusiness.com/article/pembroke-square-starts-phase-2-of-mall-redevelopment/

Unfortunately, as we knew, the garage for the apartments will now be situated NEXT to the bldg. instead of being incorporated beneath it. UGH. That is terrible.

Did anyone else find it funny all the NIMBY's on Facebook comments B&Ming about the loss of this great mall? Likely, many of them are the same folks that would have been yapping loudly about the new mall being built at that time too.  The mall was dead 10 years ago.  Why would a developer re-use the building for a completely different purpose? What is with the weird attachment some have with a non-descript failed mall?

[baobabs727]

On another note, I did not realize how large of a footprint Seritage had at Pembroke Square.  SEE 1st pic., outlined/shaded in green. Sold for 27M to ArmadaHoffler dba  Town  Center Pembroke LLC. FRIGHTENING! And borderline evil, imho.  Of course I knew it happened right after it happened, but I didn't realize...well..look at that footprint!! 

EDIT:  Seritage actually owned MORE land/bldgs before their big sell off in 2022...more than I had realized! More than even the first pic. In fact, It looks like they owned approx. 35 percent of the entire "mall: land area.  Including the bank bldg (sold to a CA investor)  on the corner, Smokey Bones (sold to a local investor), more parking lots AND REI (sold to a CA investor).

https://propertysearch.virginiabeach.gov/#/property/14774670150000

28 minutes ago, HRVT said:

Did anyone else find it funny all the NIMBY's on Facebook comments B&Ming about the loss of this great mall? Likely, many of them are the same folks that would have been yapping loudly about the new mall being built at that time too.  The mall was dead 10 years ago.  Why would a developer re-use the building for a completely different purpose? What is with the weird attachment some have with a non-descript failed mall?

they are deeeeeeelusional lol

Edited March 26 by baobabs727

[BFG]

9 minutes ago, HRVT said:

Did anyone else find it funny all the NIMBY's on Facebook comments B&Ming about the loss of this great mall? Likely, many of them are the same folks that would have been yapping loudly about the new mall being built at that time too.  The mall was dead 10 years ago.  Why would a developer re-use the building for a completely different purpose? What is with the weird attachment some have with a non-descript failed mall?

10 years is a very generous estimate. Even when I was in high school Pembroke was a ghost town and you either went to Lynnhaven, MacArthur, or Greenbrier. That was 25 years ago. Target and maybe Old Navy were really the only thing Pembroke had to offer in the last decade.

The Kelly's there was cool with the upper balcony. I think it was originally Annabelle's.