Capitol / Financial District / Shockoe Slip

[Shakman]

That debacle should have earned RBS a tarnished port-o-potty.

[I miss RVA]

1 hour ago, Shakman said:

That debacle should have earned RBS a tarnished port-o-potty.

Hmmm... 

Perhaps one made out of tin. 

[ancientcarpenter]

Okay, does anyone here know anything about this? This 7th and Main building is slated to be demo'd this wednesday. Green space incoming - I assume they will demo the parking deck behind it as well? The gmaps street view shows the parking deck roped off by orange construction netting. 

 

"When the demo is complete, a pedestrian-friendly green space with seating will occupy the space until the Commonwealth determines its final use. "

Email from the state:

Quote

This week: Capitol steps to reopen; lane, sidewalk closures expected for 7th Street building demolition

 

Please share these updates with your staff, as appropriate.   Important changes are coming for two DGS projects this week.   Capitol steps   On Monday, July 31, crews will remove the construction fencing in front of the Capitol South Portico steps Monday.   Fencing has blocked public access to the steps since Spring of 2022, when the Department of General Services began a waterproofing project and remained through the first phase of the sidewalk replacement around the Capitol.   Fencing remains on each side of the Capitol to accommodate the sidewalk replacement, but it will move as the project progresses. That project, including both the sidewalks around the Capitol and the roadway behind the building, is expected to be complete by the end of the year.   7th Street Demolition   On Wednesday, August 2, crews will close lanes and sidewalks surrounding the state building at 703 East Main Street to accommodate its demolition.   One lane of Cary Street and East Main Street adjacent to the building, as well as one lane of 7th Street will be closed during this project. Coordinating sidewalks also will be closed. The closures are expected to remain in place at least through the end of 2023.   When the demo is complete, a pedestrian-friendly green space with seating will occupy the space until the Commonwealth determines its final use. Please use caution in both areas while these construction and demolition projects continue.

 

 

 

Edited July 31, 2023 by ancientcarpenter

[I miss RVA]

6 minutes ago, ancientcarpenter said:

Okay, does anyone here know anything about this? This 7th and Main building is slated to be demo'd this wednesday. Green space incoming - I assume they will demo the parking deck behind it as well?

 

"When the demo is complete, a pedestrian-friendly green space with seating will occupy the space until the Commonwealth determines its final use. "

Email from the state:

 

 

 

This was originally slated to be the "replacement" for the state agencies and departments that currently occupy space in the Monroe Tower. Originally scheduled to be a 14-story building at 7th and Main, then 13 stories, then 12, then maybe 10 or 11 to now shelved.

I don't think the state has mentioned anything about a parking garage. The FEELS to me like their original plan - which, if memory serves, was first announced before the pandemic, has been shelved for now because of the change in how workforce is being handled - whether that means the state has trimmed a few departments and shed employees or if they're just not needing as much downtown office space because of work-from-home becoming more prevalent.

Hard to say.

Sounds like this "green space" is going to be a long-term situation while the state is in limbo about how they'll use the property. If we're lucky, maybe our grandkids will be around to actually see something built on this lot.  

Edited July 31, 2023 by I miss RVA

[Brent114]

This building would make a good preschool /daycare for all of the new downtown residents.  Hate to see a cheap park that is “pedestrian friendly”, whatever that means.  So a foot path going nowhere alongside a city sidewalk, across the street from another park that doesn’t get used, also owned by the state (and I haven’t seen any water in the “stream” for at least 12-15 years, maybe people would use it if the water feature was turned on).     Sounds awesome.
 

  At least Dominion’s  “park” had some utility. 

[I miss RVA]

43 minutes ago, Brent114 said:

This building would make a good preschool /daycare for all of the new downtown residents.  Hate to see a cheap park that is “pedestrian friendly”, whatever that means.  So a foot path going nowhere alongside a city sidewalk, across the street from another park that doesn’t get used, also owned by the state (and I haven’t seen any water in the “stream” for at least 12-15 years, maybe people would use it if the water feature was turned on).     Sounds awesome.
 

  At least Dominion’s  “park” had some utility. 

!!

 

Hmmm...   Maybe by "pedestrian friendly" - they actually mean "pawdestrian friendly" for all the squirrels that'll likely be running around the park. 

Edited July 31, 2023 by I miss RVA

[Rooster]

well.... "green space" is way better than an empty 3 story building. Hopefully they find a good (and tall) use for that block, but until then Id rather see it green (and shady) then whats there now. When you're actually walking these streets shade matters alot -especially on these 95 degree days. Walked down for lunch the other day and shade makes the difference between going out and not bothering. Of course one block with trees doesnt make the difference, but cumulatively its a real quality of life issue

[I miss RVA]

4 hours ago, Rooster said:

well.... "green space" is way better than an empty 3 story building. Hopefully they find a good (and tall) use for that block, but until then Id rather see it green (and shady) then whats there now. When you're actually walking these streets shade matters alot -especially on these 95 degree days. Walked down for lunch the other day and shade makes the difference between going out and not bothering. Of course one block with trees doesnt make the difference, but cumulatively its a real quality of life issue

The old big band song from a couple of generations ago was "The Sunny Side of the Street"- but man... in the summertime - and especially with climate change having the impact that it's having, the "shady side of the street" is the way to go - whether we're broiling in Richmond or in Chicago. It hasn't been nearly as bad here as it is in Richmond this summer, but we've had some pretty nasty hot days the last couple of weeks.

I can't wait for September to get here.

[eandslee]

7 hours ago, I miss RVA said:

The old big band song from a couple of generations ago was "The Sunny Side of the Street"- but man... in the summertime - and especially with climate change having the impact that it's having, the "shady side of the street" is the way to go - whether we're broiling in Richmond or in Chicago. It hasn't been nearly as bad here as it is in Richmond this summer, but we've had some pretty nasty hot days the last couple of weeks.

I can't wait for September to get here.

…but the heat hasn’t been bad this year. I’ve seen and felt it much hotter and longer than this year. This year is nothing!  Just saying…

[I miss RVA]

3 hours ago, eandslee said:

…but the heat hasn’t been bad this year. I’ve seen and felt it much hotter and longer than this year. This year is nothing!  Just saying…

It's been cooler this summer in Chicago than it has been the last few years. It's only been over the last couple of weeks that the 90s and high humidity have reared their ugly dragon heads here - and while I don't know how daily average temps have stacked up against the 30-year average, I believe we're running a tad below 'normal' this summer - which is fine with me. MOST of the days in my part of town have been in the mid-to-upper '70s - but the lows have often been no lower than 65 and often around 70. Fortunately, it's not been as bad so far this summer than it has been in years past.

Hopefully this summer in RVA isn't off the chain - I remember heat waves in Richmond that were horrendous. Late '70s (when I was in high school) - were awful.

[ancientcarpenter]

Wait until The Devil's Front Porch I mean August comes around...

[Brent114]

I’d rather the building sit there and rot honestly.   The hole will be terrible and it connects to the Dominion hole.  So two full city blocks of emptiness.  It’s bad for Main Street, 7th Street and Cary Street. 

[Icetera]

2 hours ago, Brent114 said:

I’d rather the building sit there and rot honestly.   The hole will be terrible and it connects to the Dominion hole.  So two full city blocks of emptiness.  It’s bad for Main Street, 7th Street and Cary Street. 

Fully agreed.  I doubt the temporary green space will provide the necessary tree coverage needed (if any) to replace the shade lost from the building.

[I miss RVA]

6 hours ago, Brent114 said:

I’d rather the building sit there and rot honestly.   The hole will be terrible and it connects to the Dominion hole.  So two full city blocks of emptiness.  It’s bad for Main Street, 7th Street and Cary Street. 

!!!  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ THIS! 

[Rooster]

On 8/4/2023 at 12:25 PM, Brent114 said:

I’d rather the building sit there and rot honestly.   The hole will be terrible and it connects to the Dominion hole.  So two full city blocks of emptiness.  It’s bad for Main Street, 7th Street and Cary Street. 

wow - prefer a rotting building to a treed parcel? were they suggesting leaving it as a hole? I suppose everyone is different but that really surprises me... 

[Brent114]

The lot is surrounds by huge (at least 40 years old) pin oaks already.   

A new vest pocket park here is 100% redundant and unnecessary.   Ideally I’d like the state to sell the land and not spend a penny on something useless and destructive (meaning the vacant building IS better than a crappy and redundant park space with trees from Home Depot that will take 20 years to cast any shade). 

Edited August 7, 2023 by Brent114

[I miss RVA]

17 minutes ago, Rooster said:

wow - prefer a rotting building to a treed parcel? were they suggesting leaving it as a hole? I suppose everyone is different but that really surprises me... 

It's more the likelihood that if the state converts it to green space, then it's going to stay green space probably for the rest of the lives of EVERYONE in our community here. Maybe my grandkids (and my oldest munchkin is 14, so grandkids a ways off still) will live to see something go vertical there, but none of us will. And this is PRIME real estate in the middle of the legacy Financial District. It's not like downtown RVA will EVER be confused with Midtown Manhattan, where even a small sliver of green space would be a welcome respite from the uber-intense jungle of concrete, steel, glass, brick and asphalt. If anything, downtown RVA has far TOO MANY open lots, green, paved over, dirt hole or otherwise. At least that rotting building MIGHT serve as incentive for the state to do something with the land that will result in a large structure rising there, whether that means selling off the parcel to a developer or finally going forward with some plan for a new building there.

I get folks want green space. But it blows my mind how folks are losing their minds over Manchester and Scott's Addition densifying - everyone clamoring for green space. RVA HAS PLENTY of green space! Exactly how much more green space do we really need? Perhaps let's stop putting the cart before the horse and focus on the greater need. RVA would do well to put much more emphasis on development. We're a far cry from becoming Manhattan just yet. 

Edited August 7, 2023 by I miss RVA

[Rooster]

hmmmm. like I said, everyone's different. It raises an interesting question though - are you really suggesting that going ahead and having the demo taken care off (and planting a few trees) makes it less likely to be developed in the future?  I guess I could kind of see an argument that tearing down a rotting building wasnt worth the expense, but wouldnt it let the next development happen more quickly?  I suspect some of yall may have fallen out of trees as kids and have been holding a grudge ever since (jk)

 

[I miss RVA]

4 hours ago, Rooster said:

1.) It raises an interesting question though - are you really suggesting that going ahead and having the demo taken care off (and planting a few trees) makes it less likely to be developed in the future?

2.) ... wouldnt it let the next development happen more quickly?

3.) I suspect some of yall may have fallen out of trees as kids and have been holding a grudge ever since (jk)

 

A few thoughts:

1.) Less likely to be developed: Unfortunately, yes - there's a good chance that if the state razes the building and puts a park there - it will stay a park. It's more than just planting a few trees. The state government is all about inertia. After all, HOW long has this building sat vacant and been falling down around itself? And the state is STILL "weighing options" about what to do? C'mon - you and I both know it takes an act of God to get the state to do ANYTHING when it comes to moving forward on any kind of infrastructure. I can see that park still sitting there when I'm in my 90s, provided I live that long.

2.) Make development happen more quickly: No -not necessarily. What will make development happen quickly there is actual incentive for the state to build something there, which - by all accounts - seems to have dried up. The state is worse than Dominion when it comes to selling off prime real estate (it's a miracle, IMNSHO, that Dominion actually finally decided to take the Nestea Plunge and put the former OJRP site up for sale). A developer would have to come in with an Elon Musk-sized checkbook to get the state to sell off that 7th and Main corner. Why? Because that land is an asset, worthy of holding on to. They'll use the "Justin Case" argument - "we'll hold on to that parcel, just in case we need it."

3.) Fallin' outta trees: Awwww MANNNNN!!! You must've been spying on me when I was a kid! (even though I'm prolly a good 20-30 years older than you are) How'd you know that a squirrel pushed me out of a loblolly pine when I was 3?    

Edited August 8, 2023 by I miss RVA

[I miss RVA]

New owner/developer will convert the former Ross Building at 8th and Main into apartments. This has been in the works for quite a while.

From today's Richmond BizSense:

https://richmondbizsense.com/2023/08/15/new-owners-to-take-reins-of-wytestone-plaza-office-towers-apartment-conversion/

[I miss RVA]

No surprise here - given that @wrldcoupe4has been reporting this was the case for quite some time:  the Genesis redevelopment of the former 8th & Main Building/Wheat First Securities HQ - and the new construction of a 300-unit high-rise apartment building at 7th and Cary has been scuttled. Genesis has abandoned plans to purchase the two properties from Dominion, which is putting the two parcels back on the market.

While the biggest disappointment is that -- for now -- no new high-rise apartment building will be constructed at the corner of 7th and Cary - but perhaps if things settle down economically regarding interest rates (particularly with inflation having cooled significantly) maybe an out-of-town developer might come in with similar -- or even more robust -- plans. 

It's painful though - that so many blocks in such close proximity in the legacy Financial District area (an empty 8th & Main building, the small parking deck at 7th and Cary, the site of the state building slated for demo at 7th and Main and the full block of the former OJRP site) will sit fallow for the foreseeable future. I can't help but believe (and certainly hope) that this could be a blessing in disguise - perhaps in the next few years some heavy-hitter developers will roll into town with some plans for the kinds of projects we all hope and pray for. (Check out the graphic from RBS below -- stunning, the proximity of these parcels.)

A post-script - and it's an observation, not a kvetch: I can't help but believe that our market size is really hurting us re: development in the face of higher interest rates (and before that - the inflation that drove up construction costs, etc.) -- and that because we're NOT Austin, the two Carolina cities, Nashville, etc. - the negative impact in terms of projects being truncated or cancelled altogether is more  pronounced for us than it is for them. (Look at the project cancellations that have occurred in the last couple of years - the former Admiral at 2nd and Marshall, the Genesis project, even the state project at 7th and Main).

And to those who will say - "it's not just an RVA problem - EVERYONE is being impacted" - yes, I realize that. My point is that it's having a proportionally GREATER negative impact on RVA than it is on the other markets I mentioned above because they are a lot bigger and the margins there are far greater than they are here. As I keep lamenting and preaching - SIZE MATTERS.

We've GOT to get bigger, folks. I honestly believe we wouldn't be losing projects like this were our market significantly larger - if for no other reason than the demand is greater in those other markets than it is here.

From today's Richmond BizSense:

https://richmondbizsense.com/2023/08/16/developer-scraps-plans-for-600-apartments-at-dominion-owned-properties-downtown/

 

Edited August 17, 2023 by I miss RVA

[Downtowner]

23 hours ago, I miss RVA said:

No surprise here - given that @wrldcoupe4has been reporting this was the case for quite some time:  the Genesis redevelopment of the former 8th & Main Building/Wheat First Securities HQ - and the new construction of a 300-unit high-rise apartment building at 7th and Cary has been scuttled. Genesis has abandoned plans to purchase the two properties from Dominion, which is putting the two parcels back on the market.

While the biggest disappointment is that -- for now -- no new high-rise apartment building will be constructed at the corner of 7th and Cary - but perhaps if things settle down economically regarding interest rates (particularly with inflation having cooled significantly) maybe an out-of-town developer might come in with similar -- or even more robust -- plans. 

It's painful though - that so many blocks in such close proximity in the legacy Financial District area (an empty 8th & Main building, the small parking deck at 7th and Cary, the site of the state building slated for demo at 7th and Main and the full block of the former OJRP site) will sit fallow for the foreseeable future. I can't help but believe (and certainly hope) that this could be a blessing in disguise - perhaps in the next few years some heavy-hitter developers will roll into town with some plans for the kinds of projects we all hope and pray for. (Check out the graphic from RBS below -- stunning, the proximity of these parcels.)

A post-script - and it's an observation, not a kvetch: I can't help but believe that our market size is really hurting us re: development in the face of higher interest rates (and before that - the inflation that drove up construction costs, etc.) -- and that because we're NOT Austin, the two Carolina cities, Nashville, etc. - the negative impact in terms of projects being truncated or cancelled altogether is more  pronounced for us than it is for them. (Look at the project cancellations that have occurred in the last couple of years - the former Admiral at 2nd and Marshall, the Genesis project, even the state project at 7th and Main).

And to those who will say - "it's not just an RVA problem - EVERYONE is being impacted" - yes, I realize that. My point is that it's having a proportionally GREATER negative impact on RVA than it is on the other markets I mentioned above because they are a lot bigger and the margins there are far greater than they are here. As I keep lamenting and preaching - SIZE MATTERS.

We've GOT to get bigger, folks. I honestly believe we wouldn't be losing projects like this were our market significantly larger - if for no other reason than the demand is greater in those other markets than it is here.

From today's Richmond BizSense:

https://richmondbizsense.com/2023/08/16/developer-scraps-plans-for-600-apartments-at-dominion-owned-properties-downtown/

 

The largest reason nation wide is interest rates affecting projects nationwide. I’ve started to see companies in the trade industry thinking about laying off people. The home issue is about to get even worse nation wide. Just heard too that homelessness is 11 percent up at the moment, it’s the largest increase of homeless people ever in the history of our company. It’s bad out there. Cost of living is the main issue why so many more people are unable to get housing and then you have the drug issue and various other issues. I’ve seen credit card debt is up 33 percent. Housing cost and evictions are horrible too. But I’ve seen a construction companies considering laying people off. So if anyone wants an inside view of why your homes are taking forever to be built two main factors one is interest rates are horrible two lack of skilled trades workers. We are getting ready to have a colossal issue in our country with construction and building if people don’t start stepping up and getting into a trade. Im just going to tell you best of luck one day people may be building their own home if they even know where to start because if we keep losing people due to oh it’s toxic oh it’s hard work or oh my knees oh my back then we will be like the other blue collar jobs and say your on your own, if I was a cop a nurse or heck even a teacher. I’d walk out and say we all quit and tell everyone do everything your own dam self. Give yourself a shot or surgery. Teach your own self build gotcha own home protect your own life put out your own fire. After a while us blue collar people are going to just stop all together. I’m sick of the blame game I’ve about given up myself why should I cater to people who complain 24/7 about housing or like my wife who cry and moan about healthcare or my friends dad whose a state trooper fend your own self.  People need to stop being so lazy and start being useful and a YouTube star is not one of them. A TikTok star is not one of them. The human interaction has taken a toll because everyone wants to sit at home and be a stupid YouTube star. I wish TikTok never ever happened in a million years. 

Sorry for the rant just frustrated with lazy people and people you have to whip to get any work done. I feel like I’m performing mouth surgery performing teeth to get people to work and not be lazy.  

[Shakman]

1 hour ago, Downtowner said:

The largest reason nation wide is interest rates affecting projects nationwide. I’ve started to see companies in the trade industry thinking about laying off people. The home issue is about to get even worse nation wide. Just heard too that homelessness is 11 percent up at the moment, it’s the largest increase of homeless people ever in the history of our company. It’s bad out there. Cost of living is the main issue why so many more people are unable to get housing and then you have the drug issue and various other issues. I’ve seen credit card debt is up 33 percent. Housing cost and evictions are horrible too. But I’ve seen a construction companies considering laying people off. So if anyone wants an inside view of why your homes are taking forever to be built two main factors one is interest rates are horrible two lack of skilled trades workers. We are getting ready to have a colossal issue in our country with construction and building if people don’t start stepping up and getting into a trade. Im just going to tell you best of luck one day people may be building their own home if they even know where to start because if we keep losing people due to oh it’s toxic oh it’s hard work or oh my knees oh my back then we will be like the other blue collar jobs and say your on your own, if I was a cop a nurse or heck even a teacher. I’d walk out and say we all quit and tell everyone do everything your own dam self. Give yourself a shot or surgery. Teach your own self build gotcha own home protect your own life put out your own fire. After a while us blue collar people are going to just stop all together. I’m sick of the blame game I’ve about given up myself why should I cater to people who complain 24/7 about housing or like my wife who cry and moan about healthcare or my friends dad whose a state trooper fend your own self.  People need to stop being so lazy and start being useful and a YouTube star is not one of them. A TikTok star is not one of them. The human interaction has taken a toll because everyone wants to sit at home and be a stupid YouTube star. I wish TikTok never ever happened in a million years. 

Sorry for the rant just frustrated with lazy people and people you have to whip to get any work done. I feel like I’m performing mouth surgery performing teeth to get people to work and not be lazy.  

Your sentiments are felt my heart as well.  It appears there are more complainers out there with the attitude that life should be just handed to them rather than earning it.  Creativity, tenacity, patience and most importantly being grateful can go a long way for a happy life.

Edited August 18, 2023 by Shakman

[Brent114]

People aren’t lazy because they don’t want to be electricians or plumbers.  No one is going to be good at something that they don’t want to do.  Dumping people, who have no interest in the trades,  into trade schools accomplishes nothing. 
 

And interest rates are not the problem.  It’s is the excuse.   Unreasonable expectations of profit are.  Interest rates have historically been much higher, even during huge economic expansions/building booms.  Developers have gotten used to record profits year over year regardless of economic conditions.  
 

Millions of housing units went unbuilt since the Great Recession because it wasn’t considered profitable….all the while they posted record profits.  Keeping inventory low keeps them wealthy.  There’s no incentive to build unless the banks are loaning the money for free.  fudge that noise.   It isn’t Jose’s or Shelia’s responsibility to do work they don’t want to do so that developers get rich. 
 

And for the record, I’ve been building  and remodeling homes for 35 years. 

Edited August 18, 2023 by Brent114

[Downtowner]

6 hours ago, Brent114 said:

People aren’t lazy because they don’t want to be electricians or plumbers.  No one is going to be good at something that they don’t want to do.  Dumping people, who have no interest in the trades,  into trade schools accomplishes nothing. 
 

And interest rates are not the problem.  It’s is the excuse.   Unreasonable expectations of profit are.  Interest rates have historically been much higher, even during huge economic expansions/building booms.  Developers have gotten used to record profits year over year regardless of economic conditions.  
 

Millions of housing units went unbuilt since the Great Recession because it wasn’t considered profitable….all the while they posted record profits.  Keeping inventory low keeps them wealthy.  There’s no incentive to build unless the banks are loaning the money for free.  fudge that noise.   It isn’t Jose’s or Shelia’s responsibility to do work they don’t want to do so that developers get rich. 
 

And for the record, I’ve been building  and remodeling homes for 35 years. 

There is a difference between remodeling and building homes and a Multi million or multi billion dollar development. It may not be as big of a problem for smaller project like with what you do but the larger projects I would say the interest rate screws that up incredibly. In your experiences it may not be a problem. You talk about record profits maybe you should honestly look at someone’s profits before you make such claim. How do you know for a fact companies are making record profit? Just because somethings costs considerably more doesn’t mean they are making record profits. There is more than one side to that issue/story. Until you see proof meaning documents and that goes for anyone nobody can make such outlandish statements that are not true until they see it with their own two eyes. I like physical evidence to lay my eyes on before I make outlandish statements like that. Plus it’s really none of my business unless I work for such company. Just like my taxes are nobody’s business nor is it anyone else’s business. I keep my nose in my business. I don’t worry about other peoples business it’s not my business so if they want to make a profit good for them at least they are investing in something. Be grateful for what you have and what you do. People want more and more now. Nothing is ever enough.