Charlotte Pipe &Foundry redevelopment

[KJHburg]

3 minutes ago, 11 HouseBZ said:

Hear me out.

Many, many of us here and elsewhere have mentioned how Charlotte needs to have a museum dedicated to the extensive gold history that greatly influenced the growth and development of our fair city.  Could this be our last opportunity to do such with a combined underground portion leftover from that time?

Now, I know to save any portion will take an enormous amount of planning and money. But maybe the majority of the museum could be above or slightly below ground level. Then, if the cost to "restore" the shafts is too high, maybe instead sink a reinforced elevator shaft or two down that intersects a few of the remaining tunnels. Those tunnels then could be lit up within so you can see down through them from the elevators windows as a guide discusses various parts of the history of the mines/ gold. There can be many restored historic/remade mining pieces placed in situ for visitors to visualize the conditions of the mines.

Perhaps closer to the surface above the historic tunnels is a interactive mock / realistic tunnel visitors can walk through. To carrying this idea further, a good bit of the museum's pathways from exhibit to exhibit could be made to look like these mock mine tunnels giving the visitors a feel for what it be like being underground for extended periods (this part would have to necessarily be underground for obvious cost reasons).

IDK, the details could be filled in later. But could this be the time to secure this concept and bring it to fruition? Certainly this would be a better way to anchor the names of these 2 new neighborhoods than a measly little sign that's says "here lies the site of the former St Catherine mine under this 6 story parking deck"? Plus give at least one more reason to bring visitors to our city?

This is a concept I've latched onto pretty hard since I first heard it mentioned by one of you on this site. Though I'm not in either of these fields, my mom is the one who got me interested in geology and mining. She's an alumna of Colorado School of Mines. Personally I'd love to take her to this future museum and watch her geek out. 

What are y'allsthoughts on whether this could actually happen?

I like the idea but the state already supports and funds Reed Gold Mine State Historical Site in Cabarrus county.  Their small museum covers much of the history of the gold mining in the Charlotte area.  Plus they have a mine shaft you can go into. 

However I do think Charlotte should do something more for its gold history.  Would love to see a big donation from someone or some foundation to kick start this effort. For gold mining lead to the US Mint which led to the Fed Reserve office and big banks.  This was the gold mining region in this country from its inception up until 1849 when they found gold in California.  

[Windsurfer]

On 10/31/2023 at 2:11 AM, 11 HouseBZ said:

Hear me out.

Many, many of us here and elsewhere have mentioned how Charlotte needs to have a museum dedicated to the extensive gold history that greatly influenced the growth and development of our fair city.  Could this be our last opportunity to do such with a combined underground portion leftover from that time?

Now, I know to save any portion will take an enormous amount of planning and money. But maybe the majority of the museum could be above or slightly below ground level. Then, if the cost to "restore" the shafts is too high, maybe instead sink a reinforced elevator shaft or two down that intersects a few of the remaining tunnels. Those tunnels then could be lit up within so you can see down through them from the elevators windows as a guide discusses various parts of the history of the mines/ gold. There can be many restored historic/remade mining pieces placed in situ for visitors to visualize the conditions of the mines.

Perhaps closer to the surface above the historic tunnels is a interactive mock / realistic tunnel visitors can walk through. To carrying this idea further, a good bit of the museum's pathways from exhibit to exhibit could be made to look like these mock mine tunnels giving the visitors a feel for what it be like being underground for extended periods (this part would have to necessarily be underground for obvious cost reasons).

IDK, the details could be filled in later. But could this be the time to secure this concept and bring it to fruition? Certainly this would be a better way to anchor the names of these 2 new neighborhoods than a measly little sign that's says "here lies the site of the former St Catherine mine under this 6 story parking deck"? Plus give at least one more reason to bring visitors to our city?

This is a concept I've latched onto pretty hard since I first heard it mentioned by one of you on this site. Though I'm not in either of these fields, my mom is the one who got me interested in geology and mining. She's an alumna of Colorado School of Mines. Personally I'd love to take her to this future museum and watch her geek out. 

What are y'allsthoughts on whether this could actually happen?

I think this is such a great idea!  I'd certainly donate to it myself.  Is there ANYONE here, on this forum who has a connection with the Dowds?   

If I were a younger man, I swear I'd make some kind of presentation to the Dowds or City Council, or someone, with this idea,  Even if it were just to come in as a restaurant or pub.

[ertley]

One of my (dream world) ideas for Charlotte is to relocate the old Mint building from Eastover and bring it back to where it was built, as a museum about Charlotte's gold mining history. Since the Mint Museum is principally located Uptown now, I don't think it would suffer at all to have the old structure detached--it would give the Mint an opportunity to radically 'reimagine' its vision/mission/focus in the Eastover area and rebuild replacement footage. (And yes, I know there's a Mint employee within our midst who might very well contradict this assertion.)

So, if anyone is going to push for a gold mining and history museum on the Pipe and Foundry property, or thereabouts, I am proposing to incorporate the original Mint building, as part of the master plan! The Mint building could be at one extreme of the location/site, even if it's only a block or less in size, and it could focus on the actual minting end of the process, or serve as a beautiful educational center generally.  

They managed to put it on trucks and move it from downtown in the '30s, so I say let's take it back home to (near) where it belongs a century later! My original concept is that it should've been put back on its original block, just pushed to the north end of the federal courthouse block, but they built that extremely mediocre apartment building where it could've gone. So...

Again, (dream world) idea. 

[CLT Development]

3 hours ago, ertley said:

One of my (dream world) ideas for Charlotte is to relocate the old Mint building from Eastover and bring it back to where it was built, as a museum about Charlotte's gold mining history. Since the Mint Museum is principally located Uptown now, I don't think it would suffer at all to have the old structure detached--it would give the Mint an opportunity to radically 'reimagine' its vision/mission/focus in the Eastover area and rebuild replacement footage. (And yes, I know there's a Mint employee within our midst who might very well contradict this assertion.)

So, if anyone is going to push for a gold mining and history museum on the Pipe and Foundry property, or thereabouts, I am proposing to incorporate the original Mint building, as part of the master plan! The Mint building could be at one extreme of the location/site, even if it's only a block or less in size, and it could focus on the actual minting end of the process, or serve as a beautiful educational center generally.  

They managed to put it on trucks and move it from downtown in the '30s, so I say let's take it back home to (near) where it belongs a century later! My original concept is that it should've been put back on its original block, just pushed to the north end of the federal courthouse block, but they built that extremely mediocre apartment building where it could've gone. So...

Again, (dream world) idea. 

As a senior leader of the museum you are talking about we are not principally located in uptown, and there is no plan to deprioritize Randolph, if anything there is a plan to re-prioritize Randolph as it has proven to be by far the most accessible location. The museum also only displays about 6-8% of it's collection at any given time, the Mint's collection is 4-5x the size of North Carolina Museum of Art, we need MORE space not less.

I reread your post, unfortunately the Mint building really is a large part of the identity of the institution. If anything I would do something even more ratical than what you are suggesting and merge Museum of the New South with the Charlotte History Museum, and reestablish those in the Gold District with a brand new building. 

 

Edited November 2, 2023 by CLT Development

[Norm2]

12 hours ago, CLT Development said:

As a senior leader of the museum you are talking about we are not principally located in uptown, and there is no plan to deprioritize Randolph, if anything there is a plan to re-prioritize Randolph as it has proven to be by far the most accessible location. The museum also only displays about 6-8% of it's collection at any given time, the Mint's collection is 4-5x the size of North Carolina Museum of Art, we need MORE space not less.

I reread your post, unfortunately the Mint building really is a large part of the identity of the institution. If anything I would do something even more ratical than what you are suggesting and merge Museum of the New South with the Charlotte History Museum, and reestablish those in the Gold District with a brand new building. 

 

Charlotte really needs a natural history museum, can have the history of the native Americans that lived in the area before settler's arrived, the history of Charlotte, a gold mine, and then revolving exhibits. 

[15895]

Gastonia actually has a Smithsonian Museum (the Schiele Museum of Natural History.)

Lots of Native American exhibits and outdoor trail with replica buildings etc. lots of natural history inside, I think some Gold displays, a Planetarium, etc. It’s pretty nice, I loved going frequently even as an adult even to enjoy the outdoor portions. 

[Windsurfer]

On 10/31/2023 at 2:11 AM, 11 HouseBZ said:

Hear me out.

Many, many of us here and elsewhere have mentioned how Charlotte needs to have a museum dedicated to the extensive gold history that greatly influenced the growth and development of our fair city.  Could this be our last opportunity to do such with a combined underground portion leftover from that time?

Now, I know to save any portion will take an enormous amount of planning and money. But maybe the majority of the museum could be above or slightly below ground level. Then, if the cost to "restore" the shafts is too high, maybe instead sink a reinforced elevator shaft or two down that intersects a few of the remaining tunnels. Those tunnels then could be lit up within so you can see down through them from the elevators windows as a guide discusses various parts of the history of the mines/ gold. There can be many restored historic/remade mining pieces placed in situ for visitors to visualize the conditions of the mines.

Perhaps closer to the surface above the historic tunnels is a interactive mock / realistic tunnel visitors can walk through. To carrying this idea further, a good bit of the museum's pathways from exhibit to exhibit could be made to look like these mock mine tunnels giving the visitors a feel for what it be like being underground for extended periods (this part would have to necessarily be underground for obvious cost reasons).

IDK, the details could be filled in later. But could this be the time to secure this concept and bring it to fruition? Certainly this would be a better way to anchor the names of these 2 new neighborhoods than a measly little sign that's says "here lies the site of the former St Catherine mine under this 6 story parking deck"? Plus give at least one more reason to bring visitors to our city?

This is a concept I've latched onto pretty hard since I first heard it mentioned by one of you on this site. Though I'm not in either of these fields, my mom is the one who got me interested in geology and mining. She's an alumna of Colorado School of Mines. Personally I'd love to take her to this future museum and watch her geek out. 

What are y'allsthoughts on whether this could actually happen?

Count me in in any way I can help!  Fantastic idea!

[ertley]

On 11/1/2023 at 9:38 PM, CLT Development said:

As a senior leader of the museum you are talking about we are not principally located in uptown, and there is no plan to deprioritize Randolph, if anything there is a plan to re-prioritize Randolph as it has proven to be by far the most accessible location. The museum also only displays about 6-8% of it's collection at any given time, the Mint's collection is 4-5x the size of North Carolina Museum of Art, we need MORE space not less.

I reread your post, unfortunately the Mint building really is a large part of the identity of the institution. If anything I would do something even more ratical than what you are suggesting and merge Museum of the New South with the Charlotte History Museum, and reestablish those in the Gold District with a brand new building. 

 

I accede--and always realized--that the Mint will never give up the original building, but agree with your idea about reimagining the Charlotte Museum of History and the Museum of the New South. I would keep them separate, though, and strategically place them in the general environs of uptown to create multiple locuses of activity. 

My big idea is to relocate the Charlotte History Museum (and rename it that, from the "Charlotte Musuem of History") downtown. Speaking as an Alexander descendant, I think having Charlotte's principal, at least de jure, museum out in the Shamrock area, only (basically) accessible by car, is bad. I propose...

Incorporating the new Charlotte History Museum within the new Gateway Station complex. It wouldn't have to be in the main block, although that would be fine, but definitely somewhere within the area by the tracks under design.  Since the city owns all of this land, I would think that it would primarily be a question of will rather than cost, at least for land, and negotiating its incorporation with the private developers. 

Relocating the primary Charlotte history museum there would center it with the 21st century multimodal transportation center, and if done correctly, would serve as an interesting, dynamic introduction to the city for travelers. It could be the literal welcome center for the city, and something of interest to check out when stuck at the station for a while. Most importantly, though, for the local population it would start their historical journey where the Gold Line (and maybe? one day? Red Line? and/or Silver Line?) intersects with Amtrak , Trade Street and another rail trail--only three blocks from the Square, either by foot or on the Gold Line. 

I have opined before in a post (maybe in the Parks thread?) that I think all of Charlotte's--and the region's, actually--museums need to come together and seriously coordinate their missions so that they each tell a discrete, but connected, story. 

In that framework, there should still be a Musuem of the New South, but ideally I would like a permanent home for it...somewhere accessible on the Gold Line. I think having as many cultural institutions either by or within walking distance of a streetcar would be a terrific way to promote people's interaction with them. 

Along that line (har) I would love to see a museum of African American history and culture established, and near/on the JCSU campus in Five Points, on the Gold Line. I have also opined that city should stop trying to make Brooklyn happen and instead work to help further invigorate the Five Points area, rather than diluting money and efforts. I would think partnering with JCSU on such a venture would be a win-win for all.

The New South museum could be anywhere, really, nearby the Gold Line because it doesn't have to be in a historic structure or anything like that. I would suggest working with CPCC to potentially place it there, but...maybe that would be better place for a(n eventual) women's history museum?

Anyway, along with these museums along the Gold Line, there should definitely be a gold mining and minting museum on or very nearby the Pipe and Foundry property, which is within easy walking distance of the Gateway Station and the Charlotte History Museum.

I stated before that I think each of the historic house museums in the county should have a unique focus, and I would make the Hezekiah Alexander homestead a museum dedicated to the early pioneer settlement of the region, pre-Revolution. Because Latta Place has so much land and is part of a series of nature preserves, I would make its focus on food, farming and agriculture, both historic and holistic including present day. Every historic house should not shy away from the issue of slavery, but I would make Rosedale focus on the evils of slavery, since it's the most accessible venue, within the city limits and very near the city center and the Blue Line, and doesn't have the acreage the others have. I would love to see the Mecklenburg ABC Board relocate itself, with its property and building accessioned by Rosedale for a museum building (if practicable) and additional land for interpretive purposes. 

As I've also said before, having a living Native American tribe on a reservation within 20? miles of the city center is an unbelievable resource that the city, and both states, should try and cultivate, by working with the Catawba to see if they would be interested in partnering in the development of both a living and static museum on their reservation.  

With each of these installations you would have a specific time period and element of Charlotte's history preserved and represented, from pre-colonial times, to pioneer White settlement--and then of course a crucial Revolutionary War battle occurred only 30? miles west at Kings Mountain--all through to the 20th century. 

P.S. I would also like to see the city do whatever it takes to get the N.C. Music Hall of Fame moved from Kannapolis to downtown Charlotte.

P.P.S. I also think Discovery Place should sell its Tryon Street property for private development $$$ and relocate (specifically) to the block between 6th and 7th and Brevard and Caldwell owned by...Mr. Levine...that has the historic structure at the corner of 7th and Brevard. You'd have Discovery Place directly across the street from ImaginOn and the First Ward Park, and that historic structure would make an amazing landmark for the new Discovery Place, and the new, custom built 21st century structure could wrap it. 

Just some thinking out loud! But yes, the gold history and mining museum needs to happen. 

[unctarheels]

Has anyone heard any updates or rumors about the CP&F land?

[KJHburg]

I was thinking about this property the other day for no reason and went by and took a look at the site.  Still a little bit of activity at the plant probably dismantling equipment etc.  I hope 2024 is the year a major announcement happens with a new owner and my prediction if that does happen this could develop quicker than First Ward or maybe even Brooklyn.   As this would be all private owners  unlike involving reluctant landowners or government agencies.  

55.5 acres but 31.4 acres is inside the 277 loop off Morehead and is a good bit vacant.  1200 feet on I-77. 1100 feet frontage on 277.  1200 feet on Morehead Street.

the smaller part is where the actual plant is located outside 277 loop.  The views of the uptown skyline would be awesome.   A few buildings on the larger north parcel including a training center for CP&F.  

The Iron District (irondistrictcharlotte.com)

I will put this property on the 2024 watch list.  

Edited January 5 by KJHburg

[jthomas]

57 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

I was thinking about this property the other day for no reason and went by and took a look at the site.  Still a little bit of activity at the plant probably dismantling equipment etc.  I hope 2024 is the year a major announcement happens with a new owner and my prediction if that does happen this could develop quicker than First Ward or maybe even Brooklyn.   As this would be all private owners  unlike involving reluctant landowners or government agencies.  

55.5 acres but 31.4 acres is inside the 277 loop off Morehead and is a good bit vacant.  1200 feet on I-77. 1100 feet frontage on 277.  1200 feet on Morehead Street.

the smaller part is where the actual plant is located outside 277 loop.  The views of the uptown skyline would be awesome.   A few buildings on the larger north parcel including a training center for CP&F.  

The Iron District (irondistrictcharlotte.com)

I will put this property on the 2024 watch list.  

It would make a great location for a baseball stadium - home plate backing up to 77/277 interchange, outfield opening towards the skyline, plenty of room beyond for development.

[stw52]

4 minutes ago, jthomas said:

It would make a great location for a baseball stadium - home plate backing up to 77/277 interchange, outfield opening towards the skyline, plenty of room beyond for development.

i think a new NASCAR Speedway

[go_vertical]

Does anyone have any idea how intensive soil remediation is going to be here?  I imagine that alone is going to be a pretty drawn-out process.

[kermit]

On 1/5/2024 at 5:35 PM, go_vertical said:

Does anyone have any idea how intensive soil remediation is going to be here?  I imagine that alone is going to be a pretty drawn-out process.

I would think the factory land  will be as bad, or worse, than the current Panthers practice facility land on Cedar (that land was a scrapyard for the pipe factory before it was repurposed for the Panthers). I was not here when the remediation on Cedar was being done but I know that they only partially remediated it (not sure what that means) so the land still cannot be used for ground-level residential. 

Having said that, I suspect a stadium project will require removing nearly all of the soil on the site anyway, so the only big adjustment the contamination will require will be much higher dump fees. This site prep will be fun to watch since it will certainly uncover a bunch of mine shafts.

Edited January 9 by kermit

[KJHburg]

1 hour ago, go_vertical said:

Does anyone have any idea how intensive soil remediation is going to be here?  I imagine that alone is going to be a pretty drawn-out process.

some of the soil remedeition on this property has already been done according to the NC Brownfields website.  Mainly on the inside 277 loop side where CP&F built some buildings the training facility for example.  Obviously the main plant area outside 277 has not started but some of this property  could be a go relatively quickly.   Beazer Homes planned to build 500 plus townhomes on this property before 2008 and some work was done then.  

and if some of this property inside 277 needed to air out it has years and years to do that.    Check NC Brownfields webpage and look at some of these parcels.  

 

[CLT Development]

Firstly, expect news on this site soon, and no it will have nothing to do with the Panthers. Secondly, the vast majority of this land shouldn't be all that bad from a remediation standpoint. Honeywell is sitting on land that had simlar uses afterall. Most of this site didn't have manufacturing uses it was storage yard. Now the century-plus old factory, that'll be a nightmare. But it might just take pouring a gigantic concrete cap which will be expensive but effective. 

Edited January 7 by CLT Development

[KJHburg]

31 of the 55 acres are just run of the mill brownfield sites like 90% of Southend.  it is the plant site which probably would be developed last.  I have heard these same rumors about this property too.  

[Crucial_Infra]

Great to hear some of these acres might get developed. Hopefully the loss of all that uptown grass doesn’t put any lawn care companies out of business. /s

Edit to add photo of area I assume we’re talking about here?

Edited January 7 by Crucial_Infra

[Reverie39]

That grass has been one of the silliest looking things about Uptown for a long time now. Just so strange to see neatly manicured empty fields sitting right under a major skyline lol. Excited to see them developed.

[J-Rob]

I am a little concerned that if this development facilitates more flight to quality, it will further exasperate Uptown vacancies. @KJHburg or @CLT Development, any thoughts on impact? Any possibility for new -to-market tenants?

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2024/01/08/commercial-real-estate-council-office-woes.html

Keep in mind there is brand new office campus sitting empty in University.

[RANYC]

46 minutes ago, J-Rob said:

I am a little concerned that if this development facilitates more flight to quality, it will further exasperate Uptown vacancies. @KJHburg or @CLT Development, any thoughts on impact? Any possibility for new -to-market tenants?

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2024/01/08/commercial-real-estate-council-office-woes.html

Keep in mind there is brand new office campus sitting empty in University.

The situation playing out in Charlotte and all over the country is quite sad, actually.  City skylines have become sources of pride, identity, and heritage for many, and while they're privately owned, people often regard them as public monuments.  But they're not.  It's not out of the realm of possibility that some of these skyscrapers may be so far gone and out of demand, they may need to come down, but that's impossible medicine to swallow for many.

[CLT Development]

1 hour ago, J-Rob said:

I am a little concerned that if this development facilitates more flight to quality, it will further exasperate Uptown vacancies. @KJHburg or @CLT Development, any thoughts on impact? Any possibility for new -to-market tenants?

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2024/01/08/commercial-real-estate-council-office-woes.html

Keep in mind there is brand new office campus sitting empty in University.

Based on the buyer I think it is, I would imagine this will be heavily residential, but you do have a point. I'm worried about office too, and I'm sure the flight to quality will continue through the Iron District. But I'd love to see a cluster campus for a local college. UNCC has planted its stake in First Ward but why stop there, why not take up space in a legacy office building that would give them center city access. I think there are solutions for our B&C level buildings, we just have to think outside the box and reconfigure them for new uses and small businesses.

Edited January 9 by CLT Development

[RANYC]

1 hour ago, CLT Development said:

Based on the buyer I think it is, I would imagine this will be heavily residential, but you do have a point. I'm worried about office too, and I'm sure the flight to quality will continue through the Iron District. But I'd love to see a cluster campus for a local college. UNCC has planted its stake in First Ward but why stop there, why not take up space in a legacy office building that would give them center city access. I think there are solutions for our B&C level buildings, we just have to think outside the box and reconfigure them for new uses and small businesses.

Iron District could be heavily residential and also have institutional uses like perhaps a new stadium even if it's perhaps a dedicated pro-soccer stadium.  Europe does it all the time.  I'm less bent on the Iron District having skyscrapers and instead interested in it prioritizing pedestrians and featuring urban density, even if low and mid-rise only.  I'd like for us to start looking at places like London and Munich as inspirations because I don't find much of anywhere in America getting it all that right.

Edited January 9 by RANYC

[unctarheels]

On 1/7/2024 at 4:06 PM, CLT Development said:

Firstly, expect news on this site soon, and no it will have nothing to do with the Panthers. Secondly, the vast majority of this land shouldn't be all that bad from a remediation standpoint. Honeywell is sitting on land that had simlar uses afterall. Most of this site didn't have manufacturing uses it was storage yard. Now the century-plus old factory, that'll be a nightmare. But it might just take pouring a gigantic concrete cap which will be expensive but effective. 

Come on give us the news! 

[CLT Development]

8 minutes ago, unctarheels said:

Come on give us the news! 

Unfortunately I don't think I can confirm anything yet, and I want to be correct