Headwaters Resort & Casino (Proposed)

[Ghentite]

3 hours ago, Lluck002 said:

The best option though would be to put out an RFP for the site for walkable mixed-use, transit-oriented development and choose a high-profile, experienced developer from a larger market. A true expansion of Norfolk’s skyline is needed and the market can surely support mixed-use residential towers.

Mostly everyone I talk to would agree with you.

[BeagleAccountant]

5 hours ago, Lluck002 said:

Honestly Bally’s wanted to build a sleek casino and tower in Richmond but we’re not chosen as the option. So they have an interest in the Virginia market. Maybe Norfolk could court them. And with the site being directly adjacent to the Amtrak station, and with expanded rail service happening, they could still attract a good amount of the Greater Richmond market, especially with their brand.

The best option though would be to put out an RFP for the site for walkable mixed-use, transit-oriented development and choose a high-profile, experienced developer from a larger market. A true expansion of Norfolk’s skyline is needed and the market can surely support mixed-use residential towers.

I love the idea of putting out an RFP though there is no guarantee it passes referendum again which would need to happen if they go in that direction.

As for Bally's, their parent company Diamond Sports is currently going through bankruptcy.  So, give me MGM or Circa please.

[HRVA]

40 minutes ago, BeagleAccountant said:

I love the idea of putting out an RFP though there is no guarantee it passes referendum again which would need to happen if they go in that direction.

As for Bally's, their parent company Diamond Sports is currently going through bankruptcy.  So, give me MGM or Circa please.

Bally’s paid Diamond Sports for naming rights to the regional sports networks.  Bally’s is not owned by Diamond Sports. 

[BeagleAccountant]

4 minutes ago, HRVA said:

Bally’s paid Diamond Sports for naming rights to the regional sports networks.  Bally’s is not owned by Diamond Sports. 

Okay thanks. You put me into a internet black hole looking into all their licensing agreements and I appreciate that, really.

I still would prefer an MGM or Circa casino. Haven't been a fan of the couple Bally's resorts I've been to.

[vdogg]

https://www.constructionjournal.com/projects/details/252314fa4fd642fbad07b24ae17ebb77.html

"As of March 2023, the developer announced plans for the development are moving forward. Architect and contractor have yet to be confirmed. A firm construction timeline has not been determined, however, construction is not expected to begin prior to 2024. *Project information, including timeline and contacts, has been obtained through public sources. The content management team continues to pursue additional details; however, the contact(s) listed have yet to disclose or confirm any information. Inquiries should be directed to the contact(s) listed."

I'm unpinning this thread. Zero point in pretending that this thing is moving forward until we get some concrete details about, well, anything... This reminds of those tv shows where some character gets bamboozled, and shows up to the office to collect their money only to find out that the firm that was previously there had vacated, and all phone lines disconnected. Why does this feel like a scam?

[mintscraft56]

1 hour ago, vdogg said:

https://www.constructionjournal.com/projects/details/252314fa4fd642fbad07b24ae17ebb77.html

"As of March 2023, the developer announced plans for the development are moving forward. Architect and contractor have yet to be confirmed. A firm construction timeline has not been determined, however, construction is not expected to begin prior to 2024. *Project information, including timeline and contacts, has been obtained through public sources. The content management team continues to pursue additional details; however, the contact(s) listed have yet to disclose or confirm any information. Inquiries should be directed to the contact(s) listed."

I'm unpinning this thread. Zero point in pretending that this thing is moving forward until we get some concrete details about, well, anything... This reminds of those tv shows where some character gets bamboozled, and shows up to the office to collect their money only to find out that the firm that was previously there had vacated, and all phone lines disconnected. Why does this feel like a scam?

Annnnd, to complete the saga, they finally say that they wont do crap till  years later. 
Folks, this project in my eyes, Is Over. 

It was a good run. Portsmouth beat us, and all the excitement died along with this slow and unorganized project. 
There is nothing to look forward to. St Pauls turned into a glob of suburban houses, They dont even know what they are going to do for Military circle, McArthur remains debated, The light rail is years behind and seemingly going to stay that way, and to top it all off, Our biggest project yet had finally died.  

I think we have finally killed any hopes off. 

Edited March 21, 2023 by mintscraft56

[zeppelin14]

Norfolk is gonna Norfolk....

[mistermetaj]

On 3/20/2023 at 8:25 PM, mintscraft56 said:

Annnnd, to complete the saga, they finally say that they wont do crap till  years later. 
Folks, this project in my eyes, Is Over. 

It was a good run. Portsmouth beat us, and all the excitement died along with this slow and unorganized project. 
There is nothing to look forward to. St Pauls turned into a glob of suburban houses, They dont even know what they are going to do for Military circle, McArthur remains debated, The light rail is years behind and seemingly going to stay that way, and to top it all off, Our biggest project yet had finally died.  

I think we have finally killed any hopes off. 

I agree, it's mostly negativity these days, but St Paul has a chance to become a Ghent like neighborhood next to downtown. It's a significant, and mostly urban upgrade over Tidewater Gardens. It's not the mass development we all wanted when it was first proposed years ago, but it's a net addition overall, and shouldn't be listed with failures like McArthur and the casino.

[mintscraft56]

43 minutes ago, mistermetaj said:

I agree, it's mostly negativity these days, but St Paul has a chance to become a Ghent like neighborhood next to downtown. It's a significant, and mostly urban upgrade over Tidewater Gardens. It's not the mass development we all wanted when it was first proposed years ago, but it's a net addition overall, and shouldn't be listed with failures like McArthur and the casino.

I understand your viewpoint. However, St Pauls is our last saving grace for this city. And for them to turn it into another everyday neighborhood is awful. We were promised buildings, main streets, and night life. Now, we are being shown houses, 2 story condos, and a retirement home. 

[Arctic_Tern]

2 hours ago, mistermetaj said:

I agree, it's mostly negativity these days, but St Paul has a chance to become a Ghent like neighborhood next to downtown. It's a significant, and mostly urban upgrade over Tidewater Gardens. It's not the mass development we all wanted when it was first proposed years ago, but it's a net addition overall, and shouldn't be listed with failures like McArthur and the casino.

Why do people keep calling it Ghent like? Cause it has 2-4 story townhouses? Behind those houses are oceans of parking lots that ruin the urban fabric that Ghent is able to make.  Think less Ghent and more Suffolk

[mistermetaj]

1 hour ago, Arctic_Tern said:

Why do people keep calling it Ghent like? Cause it has 2-4 story townhouses? Behind those houses are oceans of parking lots that ruin the urban fabric that Ghent is able to make.  Think less Ghent and more Suffolk

As long as the parking is centered in the block and hidden behind the buildings, then it will have a good urban character. I'm not calling it a perfect development but we should at least be happy with what it is replacing.

[Arctic_Tern]

13 hours ago, mistermetaj said:

As long as the parking is centered in the block and hidden behind the buildings, then it will have a good urban character. I'm not calling it a perfect development but we should at least be happy with what it is replacing.

Hard disagree there, but whatever. Still isn't "like Ghent" at all. I'd also say that "Good urban character" isn't "good urban development" since it feels like it's made more for suburbs that want to look more urban, but once again what have you.

[Up2313]

Was looking for information on the casino and found this from https://www.500nations.com/casinos/va-casino.asp

So it looks like they are still discussing an agreement according to this. 

Quote

 

Norfolk's Headwaters Casino: Construction Update - March 2023

March 24, 2023

Construction has not started on either the HeadWaters Resort & Casino or its temporary casino, and there is still no construction equipment on the site. According to Jay Smith, spokesman for the casino, the Pamunkey Indian Tribe hopes to reach an agreement with the city on the land sale within the next few weeks, and start construction soon afterwards.

When construction starts, the temporary casino will be could be operating within 6 months. The permanent casino and hotel will take 18-24 months to complete.

The Tribe has not released updated information about the temporary casino since the location was changed last year from inside the baseball stadium to the parking lot of the casino.

 

 

[HRVA]

7 hours ago, Up2313 said:

Was looking for information on the casino and found this from https://www.500nations.com/casinos/va-casino.asp

So it looks like they are still discussing an agreement according to this. 

 

Between this site and the WAVY article we have a site plan and rendering of the temporary casino but I doubt they’re final based on the little information stated by Filer and some insights by some of the posts here. Not sure that these are consistent though as the rendering appears to be on the water. 

[mintscraft56]

My question is, why build a temporary one? Just build the damn thing and be done with it! No need for teasers, they are treating this like its the release of a major film production. 

[BeagleAccountant]

On 4/12/2023 at 4:47 PM, mintscraft56 said:

My question is, why build a temporary one? Just build the damn thing and be done with it! No need for teasers, they are treating this like its the release of a major film production. 

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[lammius]

Maybe they can't get the financing they need for the full build. 

I'm sorry but that temporary casino looks like a sad shed I'd never want to set foot in. 

On another note, in many cities, the parcel between an intercity passenger rail (Amtrak) station and your metro transit system (in this case Tide) would be the most valuable development parcel in the city.  Here it's a parking lot and potentially a gamblin' garage!

[vdogg]

Danville's Casino license was approved today. Meanwhile, in Norfolk...

https://www.virginiabusiness.com/article/lottery-approves-danville-caesars-casinos-license/?oly_enc_id=8808E7437578H0S

"Virginia’s first casino, the Hard Rock Hotel & Casino Bristol, opened in July 2022 in a temporary space at the former Bristol Mall after receiving licensing approval less than 90 days earlier. In December 2022, developers began construction nearby on the $400 million permanent Hard Rock casino, which is slated to open in July 2024. The $340 million Rivers Casino Portsmouth, which received its license in November 2022, opened its permanent space in January. The Pamunkey Indian Tribe’s license for the proposed $500 million HeadWaters Resort & Casino on the Elizabeth River in Norfolk is still pending state approval..."

[EJ_LEWIS]

I've sort of moved on from this project.  I may be wrong but I think the lottery board is setting up to disapprove the license for the Norfolk casino.   I really hope I am very wrong!

[BFG]

All that campaigning people did for nothing. Thanks for nothing, Pamunkey. 

So now Norfolk has to have another referendum, right?

[vdogg]

24 minutes ago, BFG said:

All that campaigning people did for nothing. Thanks for nothing, Pamunkey. 

So now Norfolk has to have another referendum, right?

Unclear. I believe they can move forward with a different operator on the same site, but only after 2 years have passed. I believe a referendum is only required if the site changes.

[HRVA]

1 minute ago, vdogg said:

Unclear. I believe they can move forward with a different operator on the same site, but only after 2 years have passed. I believe a referendum is only required if the site changes.

That would only work if the Pamunkey do not exercise their annual options on the site. By the time the options run out, there would need to be another referendum as the last one is only valid for 5 years if the casino doesn’t open. 

[BFG]

Thanks for clarifying. So at what point can the city tell the tribe to kick rocks and entertain other offers, and this avoid the referendum?

[HRVA]

25 minutes ago, BFG said:

Thanks for clarifying. So at what point can the city tell the tribe to kick rocks and entertain other offers, and this avoid the referendum?

The final option runs out in early 2025 and the license would need to be issued by November 2025. So unless the Pamunkey cooperate (or miraculously get up and running) I expect there will need to be another referendum. 

[zeppelin14]

A Caesars or a Hard Rock sure would look nice next to Harbor Park. Hell, I would take a Harrah's at this point.

Edited April 27, 2023 by zeppelin14