Go Gators!

[jrs2]

Yes, per yesterday's post, the Colley Matrix, which tipped its hat to the 2017 UCF team that was 13-0 with the No.1 ranking, only had fsu ranked at No.5 with the same 13-0 record at the time after Bama upset UGA.  What this means is that this poll put Bama and Texas' 1-loss records as having more "value" than fsu's undefeated 13-0, and this was mainly due to the fact that it's strength of schedule was a mere No.69.  UGA's SOS wasn't that high either, which I gather is why UGA fans and admin kept their traps shut about not being ranked higher.  Yet, fsu fans and admin kept blabbing about conspiracies and SEC bias etc. Do they not even look at the polls? Are their emotions more important than hard polls? And by "their" I mean the fans, the coaches, the administration,  and the players. 

That is sadly not a very informed bunch.  All the lauding I gave fsu for fighting the cancel culture and appropriation zealots in cutting a deal with the Tribe to keep the Seminole name and likeness, seems prematurely given, as they have since made a mockery of things with the lawsuit against The ACC since those terms of the Grant of Rights no longer suits their needs, a deal they went into eyes open.

[jack]

23 hours ago, jrs2 said:

well, fielding good teams (good rosters) is all well and good...and is besides the point...and fsu had to vacate wins in the 2000's for NCAA violations from earlier seasons.  A lot of teams got dinged for that over the decades...as we know...  fsu had the Fab Four in 1989, but, in his first year as HC, Spurrier's "Fab Four" had more yardage and production that fsu's '89 contingent without the accompanying hype. Charlie Ward was a great QB, and Chris Weinke benefited from playing baseball and then coming back to college as a near-thirty-year-old, which almost never happens- but it did here.

But the fsu example is and always has been the ucf story all over again- but before ucf was doing the ucf thing, fsu was doing it.

When fsu was an Independent, their BB team was part of the Metro Conference.  ???  If it wasn't for Saint Bobby, fsu would be nothing.  It was only because of Him that fsu was able to garner respect so that an ACC would accept them into that conference.  Everybody knew in 1992 that they were outclassed by the academics of the ACC, and that they would steamroll them on the field.  But they preferred that over the grind of the SEC.

And on the "good teams" point, everybody knows that Mickey Andrews and Bowden's rule was keep going after the QB until you can longer hear the "echo of the whistle" in the stadium.  How many QB's were knocked out of games because they looked for any angle to win games.  Was that respected in the NCAA?  No.  That was fsu's defensive policy- not some rogue personal foul committing by certain players.  That was their policy.  And they resorted back to that in 2023 against Duke.  I watched that game.  Duke was already ahead and driving inside the twenty, and they personal fouled the Duke QB and knocked him out of the game (this was still with Travis, BTW).  The fsu defense was on its heels.  But then Duke had no depth and threw in their backup who did nothing, and fsu steadily took over the rest of the game.  Duke was going to win that game.    And, for the National Title Game, UF had to change its offense to keep Wadsworth and Co. from late hitting Weurffel, so they ran a quick dump off shotgun formation to the tune of 52 pts.

So the UGA game was karma for that Duke game and others from the past.  

Like I stated before, fsu pussied out in 1992 by joining the ACC over the SEC, and they even pussied out in 2020 by avoiding a "LOST 3" against UF and Trask by not scheduling their non-conference in state opponent in UF-while still scheduling an out of state scrub opponent.  Pathetic.  At least when UF dropped Miami in 1987 from their schedule, they had a good reason:  Sports Illustrated is great, you know, because they write articles that last forever.  In 1982, SI did an expose on the UF-Miami game (which UF won), where they stated the series was in jeopardy of not being renewed for financial reasons (5 year contracts).  It was not a money maker for UF.  But, UF did renew it one last time in 1982 and it ended in 1987.  UF beat Miami twice, BTW, during that span.  And in 1988, the SEC added a conference game to everyone's schedule.  And then the  SEC added yet another conference game in 1992 plus the SECCG.  

Travis wouldn't have made it through an SEC grind.  And those antics of the 1990's on defense by Mickey Andrews and Saint Bobby have not been forgotten by the college football world.

FSU had a good team this year. The defense played great all year. And Travis would have been one of the best qb's in the SEC this year. 

Your FSU hatred is showing. They played Miami every year when Miami was a top tier team. They went back and forth with UF back when the fun and gun was a sight to be seen. Those two teams alone makes a SEC schedule look like a walk in the park. 

[jrs2]

16 minutes ago, jack said:

FSU had a good team this year. The defense played great all year. And Travis would have been one of the best qb's in the SEC this year. 

Your FSU hatred is showing. They played Miami every year when Miami was a top tier team. They went back and forth with UF back when the fun and gun was a sight to be seen. Those two teams alone makes a SEC schedule look like a walk in the park. 

true, but this is college football.  and I already stated that I don't like them in an earlier post...  it's all good.

that being said, fsu's SOS was ranked No.69 in Week 14, and they went 13-0 with that schedule.  By comparison, in the Colley Matrix Poll, UF was ranked based on their results No. 76 at 5-7.  Teams ranked around No.69 had 6-6 records on average. So... fsu's 13-0 record was like playing a schedule of 6-6 teams.  Do you realize how many teams in the SEC would go 13-0 if they played a schedule of 6-6 teams? 

Take UF...we lost a close one to Mizzou, the team that won 11 games and beat Ohio State.  We lost to Utah, ranked No.26 in the same poll and reigning PAC champ.  We lost to Kentucky, a 7-5 team.  We lost to LSU and UGA.  UF's worst loss was to 4-8 Arkansas.

So, one could say that fsu did what they were asked to do in beating an average win-loss opponent record of 6-6.  UF didn't do that and lost to 4-8 Arkansas when they should've won that game.  That game would have made UF 6-6.  At that point, UK, Mizzou, UGA, LSU, FSU, Utah, all had better records than UF, .  fsu lost 3-63 to UGA, a common opponent.  How would they have done against 11-2 Mizzou?  fsu did beat LSU, but LSU is a late starter every season much like Tennessee is.  LSU's QB won the Heisman.  How would fsu have fared if they played them when UF played them in November?  Nobody knows.  But, playing Utah on the road, LSU in Baton Rouge, Mizzou in Columbia, and UK in Lexington- would fsu have even won all of those games?  They beat LSU in a neutral site Week 0 game.  Play them in Baton Rouge in November at night.  Same with Mizzou at their house in November.  I would guess fsu loses both of those games (LSU and Mizzou).  And I would say fsu splits games at UK and at Utah.

UF beat a good Tennessee team that blanked B1GCG loser Iowa.  How would fsu have fared against even them?  So, the point I'm making is that 13-0 against an SOS of No.69 would probably translate to 9-3 regular season playing UF's schedule, maybe even 8-4, with a probable berth in The ACCCG, which means, fsu was not that good.  I would even venture to state that UF's win at South Carolina-  maybe fsu doesn't even win that kind of a game on the road against that team either with Rattler at QB.

So, what should UF's record have been playing opponents with an average record of 6-6.  Well, if UF beat Arkansas which was 4-8, so that UF would go 6-6 instead of 5-7, then, being conservative, of the 6 losses UF would have then had, say UF split those and went 3-3.  That would give UF a 9-3 record in 2023 playing fsu's schedule or maybe better.  And fsu would have gone 9-3 or 8-4 playing UF's schedule.  So who had the better team in 2023 considering all of that?  Maybe fsu was a little better than UF, but UF isn't the litmus test, rather, a  just being used for comparison.  And a further point...in the same way that fsu was "disappointed" and din't show up for the game against UGA, well, UF had just lost a heart-breaker to Mizzou the week before the fsu game and a heart-breaker to Arkansas before that.  Had UF won those games, I guarantee you their attitude would have been 100% different going into the season finale versus fsu, and they would have been a 7-4 team going into that contest with a chance at a very good bowl game with a win and a chance to finish the season 9-4.

Another example about SOS:  in 1984, the main computer poll was the NYTimes Poll, which had a 9-1-1 UF team ranked No.1.  UF couldn't play in a bowl game b/c of probation.  However, BYU played a weak Michigan team in the Holiday Bowl and got the AP No.1 vote that year at 12-1.  UF was No.3 in the AP.  Yet, UF, with 3 less wins and a tie thrown into the win loss column, outranked them in the NYTimes Poll because of its superior SOS.  That's why many regard the '84 Gators as national champs all things being equal.

That is the importance of strength of schedule, because anyone can play a patsy schedule and have a good record as a result.  Isn't that why Saint Bobby joined the ACC in the first place in 1992 over the SEC?  Yes.  To your other point, fsu only needed to get up for two games each year (Miami & UF).  UF on the other hand, had to play LSU, UT, UGA, and Auburn and fsu every year, and an SECCG opponent from 1992 on when UF won the SECE.  fsu didn't have to do any of that.  And, Miami fell by the wayside in 1993, made a return in 1994,, and dropped off the face of the earth in 1995, 1996, and 1997.  They had an upstart year in 1998 and were good again in 2000 and on under Davis/Coker for a few more years when they had Dorsey at QB.  But UF played Miami in 2000, 2002, 2003, and 2004 as well.  Meanwhile, UF was playing teams like 11-1 Bama in 1991, National Champ Bama in 1992, undefeated Auburn in 1993, an undefeated Bama team in the SECCG in 1994, National Champ UT in 1998, and so many other Top 10 squads like 1997 LSU, 1999 Bama, 1994 Auburn, 1990 UT, 1991 UT, 1997 UT, 1999 UT, with other Top 25 squads---every year.  There is no comparison between UF's SOS in the '90's and fsu's.  Yes, fsu and Miami played a couple of No.1 versus No.2 games in 1988 and 1989 that got a lot of press, not to mention the "wide right" games that took place during those pre-Janikowski years.

But bringing this forward, the numbers don't lie.  I base my opinions on the numbers.  I can say that fsu sucks 'till I'm blue in the face, but that would make me a hater (not a troll, b/c this is a Gator thread).  But my opinions are based on the numbers.  And my opinions are based on the standards that apply to ALL teams.  fsu doesn't get special treatment about making excuses for being disappointed or whatever, either.  Those standards of motivation apply to all teams.  And my opinion about fsu is just one.  But imagine all the fans of Bama, UGA, Auburn, LSU, UT, and Ole Miss that know that FSU pussied out of the SEC in 1992 to have an easier path to the national title game.  SEC fans aren't the only ones that know that; the ACC fans know that as well.  And I was just exchanging notes with a buddy of mine who is a Tarheel who remembers all the talk that was going around back in 1992 how fsu was joining the conference and how all of those fans knew that fsu would win the ACC every year because there was nobody, not even Clemson, that came close to being as good as fsu during that span. 

UF would have been ACC Champ every year had they been in fsu's shoes.  Why not?  UF ranked No.1 in the SEC in 1990, 1991, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, won the SECE in 1992 and 1999, and was one game from the SECE in 1998 but lost to National Champ UT, and was a game away in 1997 when it lost to LSU and/or UGA, both Top 10 teams that year.  And UF won the SEC in 2000 and was a game from a national title berth in 2001.  UF was also a bad ref call game away from the SECE in 2003 and actually beat National Champ LSU on the road that year, and a game away in 2002, and the rest is past the fsu dominating the ACC era.  So, I would gather that UF would have won the ACC every one of those years.

Anyway, what fsu "achieved" during that span could have been duplicated by a number of schools in the SEC...and maybe even done it better. 

[jrs2]

And another point on my prior post...when UCF was crying and talking and having parades in its honor at Disney in 2017/18, I told myself "why does this sound familiar"?  I had seen this before but it had been a while.  The reason it sounded familiar was because of fsu, except that I had slept since then.  Yep, Saint Bobby did a good job of taking peoples' focus off of the cush schedule and instead focus on the blue chip talent he had on that squad which influenced the pollsters.  In fact, the schedule and talent combined absolutely factors into the rankings.  If you have a halfway descent year and all of your "stars" are returning the following year, you are likely going to be a pre-season Top 10 team.  Look at UGA, they are already saying they are going to be pre-season No.1, regardless of the fact that Michigan beat Washington.  So imagine now running through season after season of a cush schedule, having a great record against that schedule, and then returning the average percentage of talent5 other schools return, but, your team went 11-1 while those other talent laden teams only went 9-3 or 8-4 or 7-5.  Who do you think gets the "bias" nod for pre-season No.1?  The team most likely to win all of its games.  And that team is not likely to win all of its games when it faces a tough schedule.  So, the team (per above) with the cush schedule gets the nod and the hype that goes with it...and the fervor spreads throughout its fanbase to the point where when you look back on that era, it is viewed as a legacy era as opposed to an era where the hype machine outweighed the substance.

[jrs2]

 

[jrs2]

 

[jrs2]

Nick Saban just retired.  I think y'all know what I am going to say about it.  He won the BCS and CFP championships with two different schools playing in the toughest conference in the NCAA.  Not gonna draw comparisons to other former coaches that have since retired and/or passed on, but, nobody did it better than Saban.  His losses in the CFP were to that year's national champs, like this year with Michigan, and 2014 to Ohio State and UGA in 2021 and Clemson one of those years Dabo won it.   He also lost to UF in 2008 SECCG, and the winner got the berth in the BCSCG...UF won and beat OU.  He lost to Auburn in 2010 and Auburn won the BCSCG.  His squads were either the best or almost the best every year since 2008.  

What does that mean for UF?  Maybe 1-2 extra blue chippers that Bama doesn't snag per year.  Even though he retired, Kirby Smart has proven to be just as good a coach and for UF to be able to beat the best, it has to become the best; no dodging the best here.  If they can, they will, if the can't, they won't.

UF can dominate, but without a defense to speak of, they're dead in the water.  That being said, some major moves have been made on defense thus far the past few weeks.  But we'll see what happens.

UNC hired Geoff Collins, former UF DC under McElwain I believe, to be its new DC.  

[jrs2]

https://www.tigernet.com/clemson-football/news/dabo-swinney-leads-vegas-odds-of-being-next-alabama-coach-43587

[jrs2]

https://www.tigernet.com/clemson-football/news/dabo-swinney-leads-vegas-odds-of-being-next-alabama-coach-43587

NCAA hands down punishment to Florida State on NIL-related recruiting violations

[jrs2]

https://chapelboro.com/sports/acc/a-huge-fork-in-the-road-david-glenn-on-fsu-and-the-future-of-the-acc

So, once again, here's where we're at with fsu and The ACC:  fsu wanted an "easy" conference back in 1992 so they could get the drop on SEC teams and the NCAA as a whole en route to the NCAA Championship.  Well, "easy" doesn't have all that much monetary value.  And this is why The ACC's contract with ESPN is worth less that ESPN's contract with The B1G and SEC, as those conferences are noticeably tougher than The ACC.  So, fsu got what they wanted, but, they wanted the big money too.  Sorry, you can't have both, and now its gonna cost you.  fsu is screwed and I couldn't be more content about it.  If I was a commentator I would bring this all up.  They won't because at the end of the day, fsu is a brand that ESPN makes money off of, so dogging them doesn't really make sense.

And as The ACC, I would hit fsu hard for any monetary damages they realize moving forward from fsu slamming them accusing them of bad faith, etc., which in turn hurts their reputation or what have you.

It's just laughable how Clemson managed to make it to The CFP so many times and win the thing twice, became a household name and was seen as an equal to Bama and Saban, yet, fsu, is seen as a transfer portal whore, flash in the pan pseudo-power that got lucky in several games this season- or nobody would be talking about them at present.  If The ACC disbands, I think Clemson should be invited into the SEC, fsu should be shunned by The B1G, and fsu should end up in UCF's new conference.  That would be fitting for a school that is not an AAU member and isn't even the charter member of any conference-ever, pussied out of joining the SEC in 1992 when it saw no utility in doing so because of its lack of foresight, and is now making a laughing stock of things in The ACC and is quickly surpassing the "crybaby image" that UCF created in 2017 but has since outgrown.  But at least UCF had a legitimate argument because the Colley Matrix did rank them No.1- and that same poll only had fsu only ranked No.5 after Bama upset UGA, and had the audacity to cry about not getting an invite to The CFP.  With their SOS of only No.69, I would have just shut up about it instead of crying about it.  But fsu is used to that- used to getting bids to the big games based on record even though they play a weak schedule.  Well, not this time.

[jrs2]

https://floridagators.com/news/2024/1/12/mens-basketball-florida-vs-arkansas-jan-13-2024-buzzer

UF loses a tight game to UK, then gets beat good by Ole Miss, then comes back with a good win against Arkansas...

[jrs2]

https://apnews.com/article/florida-state-acc-lawsuit-ff75ebe41dc03d7d60515c220020f326

this is good.  the ACC filed a 55 page complaint for breach of contract...

fsu's zeal is several-fold and unrealistic.  I asked some of these questions weeks ago myself whether fsu could do or say certain things related to conference matters.

However, the first sentence of Florida State’s claim states: “The stunning exclusion of the ACC’s undefeated football champion from the 2023-2024 College Football Playoff in deference to two one-loss teams from two competing Power Four conferences crystalized the years of failures by the ACC to fulfill its most fundamental commitments to FLORIDA STATE and its members.”

This is how either clueless fsu s, or how weak its case is against The ACC.  First of all, Clemson has played in several CFP Playoffs and has won two of them since 2015.  See below:

https://www.ncaa.com/news/football/article/2024-01-02/teams-most-college-football-playoff-wins-and-appearances

They are so pathetic up in Tallahassee.  Clemson has been there 6 times and FSU once in 2014.  How can they sit there and say The ACC is bereft in its duty when an ACC team has been in The CFP 7 times since 2014?  That's almost every single year.  It is not The ACC's fault that fsu has sucked for so long since 2014 and that this was the first year that they would qualify for consideration of the CFP field.  Just because fsu went 13-0 means nothing; Group of Five teams go 13-0 all the time playing weak schedules, as fsu did in 2023. 

If is was Clemson they probably would have gotten in, which I have stated before, and that is because of the track record and respect Dabo has built up all these years which reflects on him and his program.  What is fsu right now?  Not as much as they'd like people to think they are.  And that was reflected in them being not-selected, and resulted in the mass exodus of  players that sat out of the UGA game.  That is a top-down phenomenon.  It was rotten at the top and it filtered down to the players; in fact I would gather the school encouraged those players to sit out so that fsu would have a built-in excuse as to why UGA kicked their buts all over the field.

pathetic.

 

[jrs2]

Holy Ghost of Alex Karras the State of MEE-shigan is getting close to sweeping the football championships, NCAA and now NFL.  Lions....Lions.

[jrs2]

https://www.onlygators.com/01/21/2024/florida-football-recruiting-four-star-2024-cb-jameer-grimsley-joins-gators-from-alabama/

UF was his number two.  now that Saban left, he's going to UF.

[jrs2]

https://www.gatorcountry.com/feature/dantre-robinson-commits-to-the-florida-gators/

this cat should be good on the DL

[jrs2]

https://www.si.com/college/2024/01/17/acc-claims-florida-state-should-be-excluded-from-conference-business-in-amended-lawsuit

 

[jrs2]

Vols and UVA are suing the NCAA...

[jrs2]

Gators upset UK last week in BB, but then turned right around and lost to Texas A&M...like I predicted they would.

[jrs2]

fascinating... UF beat Auburn on Saturday.  home game.  it looks like they are going dancing after all as that was a tier 1 or whatever opponent.

[jrs2]

so UF tried their best to blow a 20 pt lead to LSU...but still won...  it's like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde.  They got to shore up some consistency.  UK has the same or similar issues.

[jrs2]

football.  yes, UF still fields a team. I think the offense will be competent.  its the defense that shook things up ala assistant coaches...

[jrs2]

 

[jrs2]

So, Men's BB won on Saturday and they're ranked No.24.  We'll see what happens next...

[jrs2]

 

[jrs2]

Here's something:  FSU complaining because they signed a contract and now they don't like it because it doesn't work in their favor.  Boo fudge!n hoo.  The Independent Seminoles that followed everything Miami did so that they could get what Miami got in the '80's.  Said no thanks to the SEC back when they thought they were better than the SEC.  Joined a weak football conference and bragged about it.  And as time went by things weren't leaning in FSU's favor anymore.  Now the cry babies of the NCAA are crying as if college football owes them something.  Well. it doesn't. Jackson State snatched their No.1 QB recruit so what does that tell you?  They go 13-0 and get left out of the CFP- what does that tell you?  Second rate program.  If The B1G has any sense, they will make a scheduling deal with The SEC and send FSU to a Group of Five conference.  If I was UF, I would contact the B1G Commish and agree to schedule a home game for every B1G school each year for their Florida presence for recruiting that some think they need from FSU.  That's what I wood do.