CATS Long Term Transit Plan - Silver, Red Lines

[DMann]

^Much of MTC's motivation to trim the BLE appears to be two-fold: 1) stay in the Federal pipeline of the New Starts process; and 2) build sooner than later for significant savings.

Given these constraints, there's just too much risk for Cabarrus County to now enter the game. Perhaps, an extension to Concord could be a future phase, but a reduced scope (not expanded) is the best course for the BLE staying on track, especially if construction is to start in just two years.

I wonder if there could be any consideration for a public / private relationship of the parking garages. Let's say if CATS owned the land, they give a 99 year lease at $1 per year to a developer to build a parking garage. The developer builds the garage and charges $6 bucks to park. The parker gets a (discounted) round trip ticket for LYNX, the developer keeps the rest. He pays for the construction and maintenance of the facility but pays no taxes. My guess is the developer would net about $10k per week depending on the number of spaces in the garage on just the Monday - Friday usage. Weekends and nights would bump that total upwards.

Probably a crazy idea, but something like that might work..

[Sabaidee]

When the Lynx first opened, CATS said there would be no paid parking b/c our rail system hasn't matured yet and it would deter riderships for the time being. CATS hasn't reached the levels of the other major cities' rail systems that have paid parking. Also there's plenty of park and ride lots that haven't been so successful in getting filled to capacity. IMO, a public/private parking deck could work, just not now.

Edited December 8, 2010 by Shawn&Zae

[49er]

The transport politic has a good (or not so good) article on the Dallas system and its current expansion to 72 miles of light rail - making it the largest in the country. I always heard that their ridership was great but supposedly they are only getting 60k riders a day with the existing 44 miles of track and have seen falling ridership numbers. It sounds like perhaps our line naturally follows a better route for ridership and has better land use planning to boot? It's a good read and a good reminder that more mileage doesn't guarantee higher ridership. CATS should take all of this into consideration as they look to pare down the BLE and reduce costs.

[New Name]

I just read an article in the Mooresville free paper about ideas for public/private funding of the Red Line. I didn't take notes- but the idea was to get NS on board to use the line for freight from Statesville-Charlotte (this would mean NS would be paying for the needed upgrades to the track - at the same time Sville, Mooresville, Huntersville, Davidson & Cornelius would actively look to direct MFG businesses to the line).

[tozmervo]

I have a love/hate relationship with Mike Collins (love him for arts discussions, hate him for everything else), so I was pleased to hear Julie Rose in Monday's discussion with Mayor Foxx and CATS Chief Carolyn Flowers. They discuss the changes to the 2030 plan, how priorities are moving forward, why certain decisions were made, etc. They also mention two upcoming meetings next week on the BLE changes. Generally speaking, Flowers seems a little more capable on discussing the topics than she has in the past - I guess she's finally figuring things out in the city.

Interesting tidbit: at the end, Rose asks when the last time either of them employed CATS for transit. Excluding the Gold Rush, Flowers had to go back at least a month; Foxx mentioned only the Gold Rush.

http://wfae.org/wfae/19_100_0.cfm?id=6770&action=display

[New Name]

^Thanks for posting the link. I heard the teaser for the show but missed it.

And I agree that Flowers always sounded out of sorts in the past. I hope she's "figured it out" by now.

[Urbanity]

This might be a bit off topic but I wanted to vent. Read an article today that the last two days of round the clock salting and road clearing might exhaust the CDOT budget for the year. Then I started thinking about all the work places closed because it is unsafe to drive. I know this is not a perfect world, but isn't it amazing that all the people who scream about rail transit as a waste of money don't consider the huge subsidized costs of roads?

bleh

[tozmervo]

Starting Valentine's Day, the Gold Rush is going to start running from Johnson C Smith all the way to Torrence Street past CPCC [new map pdf]. The two schools will help defray the cost of what effectively doubles the coverage of the Gold Rush's red line. It's not the improved access to Midtown that I was hoping for, but it is better, and it should be a big boon to the student populations near uptown.

[Urbanity]

^^^I'm absolutely thrilled about this and hope it is but the first step in really strengthening the westside/city center ties.

I thinks it's really in CLT's interests to build up the stability and connections with that area and showcase JCSU.

Edited February 9, 2011 by Urbanity

[Bikeguy]

Starting Valentine's Day, the Gold Rush is going to start running from Johnson C Smith all the way to Torrence Street past CPCC [new map pdf]. The two schools will help defray the cost of what effectively doubles the coverage of the Gold Rush's red line. It's not the improved access to Midtown that I was hoping for, but it is better, and it should be a big boon to the student populations near uptown.

Does the Gold Rush accept bikes ?

[tozmervo]

It does not.

[dubone]

Now that Music Factory seems to be offering daytime free parking, it would be intriguing for the Orange line to be extended through Fourth Ward to there.

The extension of the redline to CPCC and JC Smith are somewhat no brainers. I do hope it helps provide some additional proof of ridership potential for the eventual streetcar line. I'm not sure I understand yet whether they will retain the Gold Rush on the same route as the starter line of the streetcar, but hopefully not.

[tozmervo]

I can't figure out which thread this conversation was taking place in, but the Transport Politic has an article up today that provides a good precedent for not running transit lines down the middle of an Independence freeway.

As it happens, I have stayed near/used the Rosemont station on the CTA blue line, and they are dead on that it is a miserable experience to use that station. While I think there are ways to conquer the issue by design, the crux of the matter is this: you can not put transit stations in the middle of freeways. I wouldn't even put one in the middle of Independence as it is today. And this applies whether or not the station is receiving light rail vehicles or rapid buses.

[orulz]

I can't figure out which thread this conversation was taking place in, but the Transport Politic has an article up today that provides a good precedent for not running transit lines down the middle of an Independence freeway.

As it happens, I have stayed near/used the Rosemont station on the CTA blue line, and they are dead on that it is a miserable experience to use that station. While I think there are ways to conquer the issue by design, the crux of the matter is this: you can not put transit stations in the middle of freeways. I wouldn't even put one in the middle of Independence as it is today. And this applies whether or not the station is receiving light rail vehicles or rapid buses.

How about this for a crazy idea. Relocate the CSX rail line to the no-mans-land in the median of the Independence, and then put the light rail on the vacated CSX alignment.

Although the truth is, the Independence median alignment isn't as bad as some are making it out to be. Half the alignment is NOT in the median (everything before Pecan, and then everything south of Sardis.)

[kermit]

How about this for a crazy idea. Relocate the CSX rail line to the no-mans-land in the median of the Independence, and then put the light rail on the vacated CSX alignment.

Although the truth is, the Independence median alignment isn't as bad as some are making it out to be. Half the alignment is NOT in the median (everything before Pecan, and then everything south of Sardis.)

An excellent idea! I'll take that a step further: I have often thought that we should provide space for freight rail in the median (or more likely alongside) of the countries interstate beltways (e.g. 485). That way freight can bypass central cities (since it really no longer needs to be there anyway -- see the new intermodal yard at the airport) and the old intown ROW can be used for transit without conflict.

[southslider]

^What about freight customers accessed on current RR alignments?

Edited March 2, 2011 by southslider

[orulz]

^What about freight customers accessed on current RR alignments?

That is an issue, but from Google Maps it looks like there's only one freight siding in active use, and about three more that seem like they haven't been used in decades.

Most industrial sites in Charlotte that need direct access to rail seem to be in industrial parks, either located off of Westinghouse Blvd near Pineville, or in West Charlotte along Brookshire Blvd. Relocating these businesses to one of those industrial parks would certainly not be free, but it would be a minor expense compared to the overall cost of building the line.

[kermit]

^What about freight customers accessed on current RR alignments?

Or you can run the local trains in overnight while those businesses remain (but this requires you maintain a freightable track)

[kermit]

Denver is discussing a possible transit sales tax increase vote next year to speed building their LRT network.

Sure would be nice to have this available as a legal option in Mecklenburg.....

[southslider]

^I had always heard Sen. Clodfelter would kill any enabling legislation for Mecklenburg to double its transit tax as long as BRT remained the preferred alternative for Independence. Clodfelter even outlawed articulated buses for that very reason. Now that bus is looking more and more likely (see Conti's recent comments while in Charlotte), I'm sure Clodfelter would kill any provision for Mecklenburg to raise its tax. And while still seen as a leader of our Charlotte delegation, Clodfelter is no longer in the majority party, which really doesn't like tax increases.

Besides, CATS has basically replaced their 2030 System Plan with MTC's latest direction on capital priorities. A shortened extension to UNCC remains the only New Starts project for the next decade-plus. The Red Line to Lake Norman must find a different Federal grant, use the State's Mobility Fund, and/or partner with the private sector. Meanwhile, the Silver Line and Center City Streetcar (beyond the starter project) remain uncertain without any specific horizon year.

Given these new financial realities, I could see CATS relying on the City to build Streetcar, and on NCDOT to build shared Bus/HOT lanes on Independence. If that's the case, you don't need to double the transit tax. Instead, you need to boost City, or better yet, create MSD revenues for Streetcar, plus an operating agreement to use tolls on Independence for express bus.

[Urbanity]

Denver is discussing a possible transit sales tax increase vote next year to speed building their LRT network.

Sure would be nice to have this available as a legal option in Mecklenburg.....

It would be nice to have the option, but whether it is a feasible option to pursue...

Even if we had the option, I just couldn't see a scenario in the next twelve to eighteen months that would place a tax increase on a ballot to voters. Specific tax districts in the areas that a line would run may be a possibility, but not a broad county tax.

I really would like to see some proposals for private partnerships first too.

[kermit]

Besides, CATS has basically replaced their 2030 System Plan with MTC's latest direction on capital priorities. A shortened extension to UNCC remains the only New Starts project for the next decade-plus. The Red Line to Lake Norman must find a different Federal grant, use the State's Mobility Fund, and/or partner with the private sector. Meanwhile, the Silver Line and Center City Streetcar (beyond the starter project) remain uncertain without any specific horizon year.

Given these new financial realities, I could see CATS relying on the City to build Streetcar, and on NCDOT to build shared Bus/HOT lanes on Independence. If that's the case, you don't need to double the transit tax. Instead, you need to boost City, or better yet, create MSD revenues for Streetcar, plus an operating agreement to use tolls on Independence for express bus.

This is exactly why I post my half-baked c_rap here. I was thinking more revenue would speed development of both the BLE and the north line. It had never occurred to me that the length reduction in the BLE will have the same basic effect for the BLE without generating the ire that a tax hike would. I do value yall's perspective.

Longer term however I would like to see planning for a rail transit _network_ in Charlotte (not just a few disconnected spurs). What this '2050' plan would look like is another subject for discussion but barring major changes at the federal level much of it will need to be financed locally. (I picture an in-town streetcar circulator including the proposed streetcar as well as a loop down Kings drive, East blvd, West blvd, Bryant Park and then Wesley heights back to Gateway, LRT service to the west/Wilkinson/Airport, LRT to the South / Btyne area and a web of commuter rail to the surrounding cities (and employment villages sprouting up at intermediate stops). Making a fraction of this stuff happen will require Denver-like strategies and an additional evolution in the local mindset about infill and landuse controls. But none of it will happen without a plan.

[southslider]

Given how MTC is currently structured (giving Towns as much say on transit as Charlotte), I don't think you will ever see a more ambitious system plan than present for a Mecklenburg-only service area. Charlotte has been key to the BLE, while the North Towns have kept the Red Line alive. Meanwhile, Matthews has had to defend the Silver Line mostly on their own.

Ultimately, I think the way to grow transit revenues for a larger regional system would be to seek quarter-cent levies in adjoining Counties (or satellite local governments on any bus or commuter line leaving Mecklenburg). Expanded service area could pay for enhanced/express bus in the short-term, but then commuter rail in the long-term. This is already needed to restore express service or build the Red Line to Mooresville.

Matthews could then pursue a two-phase approach, rather than waiting forever on light rail. Short-term, they could realize faster and branded bus service. Long-term, plan for a stop or two along a commuter rail project to Monroe.

Conversely, I see Streetcar as a locally funded capital project. Even Denver is looking at funding streetcar separate from its regional FasTracks program. Frankly, streetcars aren't rapid. With its extra width, Wilkinson Boulevard could be the exception for a "rapid streetcar," but such line would still stay fully within Charlotte. Hence, find localized funding sources for streetcars, while tapping regional revenues for regional, rapid corridors. Then, East Charlotte could re-direct their angst over light rail on into actually expediting streetcar via City-led financing strategies.

[kermit]

Conversely, I see Streetcar as a locally funded capital project. Even Denver is looking at funding streetcar separate from its regional FasTracks program. Frankly, streetcars aren't rapid. With its extra width, Wilkinson Boulevard could be the exception for a "rapid streetcar," but such line would still stay fully within Charlotte. Hence, find localized funding sources for streetcars, while tapping regional revenues for regional, rapid corridors. Then, East Charlotte could re-direct their angst over light rail on into actually expediting streetcar via City-led financing strategies.

I do agree about local funding being most appropriate for streetcars. Unfortunately I don't think it is that simple. For commuter rail to succeed there will need to be a very good local circulation system in place -- and we already have one strike against us by terminating intercity rail at Gateway which will not be connected to the blue line. My fear is that placing all of the streetcar burden on the city will result in a stunted circulation network -- thus reducing the willingness of surrounding communities to fund express service into town.

This is not to say I think streetcars should be in the same funding pot as more rapid modes, just that this interrelationship should be recognized in the planning and funding process of network development. One half-baked solution might be to shift the funding responsibility of commuter rail to the outlying communities while Charlotte's funding of streetcars and buses would be recognized as the city's financial contribution to the commuter rail network.

[southslider]

^I agree the section of Streetcar between Gateway and CTC is the piece most worthy of spending County sales tax dollars. But as long as these dollars are tied up in local match for the BLE and Red Line for the next decade, we best hope sales tax receipts make a quicker recovery, or start thinking of other funding sources for Streetcar.

Local tax districts seem to make the most sense. Granted, there could be an equity problem of areas like Elizabeth and Plaza-Midwood being able to tax themselves more easily than the Near-Westside or Far-Eastside for extensions. But if using TIF (instead of MSD), these areas could be able to raise just as much, if not more, since jump in incremental value is the payoff. And considering how many areas along the streetcar route were just re-assessed at significantly higher values (albeit mostly in land, less in improvements), the lack of any TIF currently in place has already passed up a lot of potential funding.

Edited March 9, 2011 by southslider