CATS Long Term Transit Plan - Silver, Red Lines

[tozmervo]

File under "anecdotal," but I boarded the Gold Rush at Presbyterian after an appointment mid-morning today, and it left with a good 20 people or so. Not bad for mid-morning on a route extension that has only been in service for a few weeks. Methinks the streetcar will do quite nicely.

In related news, the Gold Rush Orange line is making 6 trips a day out to the Charlotte School of Law (which, IMO, should really consider relocating Uptown)

[kermit]

While I generally discount the blather from the right wing I am starting to wonder if there is some substance to today's meme that the CATS / Observer 'oligarchy' has begun to lobby the public for an additional half cent. The apoplectic right says that CATS threats of delay on the BLE combined with the opening of the new downtown UNCC building are the seeds to the request. When you combine that with the new airport news we just received (and they were not smart enough to find) I wonder if they (accidentally) might be onto something.

Having said that, I believe that increasing the sales tax in Mecklenburg would require new legislation from Raleigh -- I can't imagine that is in the cards in the current political climate. Gosh, I wonder how they missed that?

[cltbwimob]

That article was originally posted in the meck deck; you know, the organization that abhors all things related to rail transit.  Most of their articles are useless.

[kermit]

FWIW commuter rail funding from the federal government is still flowing. The DOT just committed $1 billion to Denver commuter rail:

http://www.progressiverailroading.com/prdailynews/news.asp?id=27812

While this commuter rail project is certainly very different than ours (it connects to the airport) I think its important for CATS to keep in mind that commuter rail funding is possible in some contexts (e.g. would federal funding come available if CATS magically found a way to run the red line from Mt Morne to Gateway to the airport and then on to Gastonia? Yes I do understand that Norfolk Southern would not be hip to this on their tracks....)

[kermit]

A new report on how to pay for the red line has just been released by the "task force" The kinda vague CBJ article on it is here:

http://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/blog/queen_city_agenda/2011/09/new-pitch-for-commuter-rail.html?ed=2011-09-29&s=article_du&ana=e_du_pub

Its hard to tell but it sounds like they are investigating the possibility of selling industrial sites along the line and ramping up nighttime freight service to help pay the bills. Sounds potentially interesting and innovative.

[cltbwimob]

Reading the summary from the September 28 meeting of MTC leads me to believe that the median BRT option for Independence has, for all intents and purposes, been scrubbed. It seems that there is now a push to turn the SE corridor into a rail corridor as per the recommendation of the ULI panel, however, the MTC is not necessarily sold that streetcars would be the appropriate technology choice. The MTC is looking to study different alignments as well as different technologies such as commuter rail and light rail in addition to streetcar as proposed by the panel. Here is the summary of the September 28 meeting and the Agenda for the October 26 meeting. The summary provides a synopsis of the actual discussion while some of the attached legislative proposals closer to the bottom of the document expand more on the specifics.

http://charmeck.org/city/charlotte/cats/about/CATSBoard/mtc/MTC%20Agenda/MTC%20Agenda%20October%2026,%202011.pdf

Edited October 26, 2011 by cltbwimob

[Urbanity]

^^^Thank you for posting that. I made an interesting read. I noticed that they speak of a 2017 BLE opening in their timetable.

I also am glad that they are putting some focus on the Red Line with the freight service usage. Frankly I would like to see this happen already as we need the forward momentum on regional transit improvements.

I'm also happy to see them talking in somewhat optimism about pursuing the Monroe streetcar.

[49er]

This is perhaps independent of the 2030 plan, but I saw in interview with Dan Morrill on the news last night discussing putting car 85 back on the tracks to Wesley Heights. He said the demonstrator (I guess powered by the generator) could be up and running as soon as next year! I don't know the area well, but I remember some breaks in the track? And I also wonder how far it would go? My guess was out to the Celadon project but maybe someone who knows the hood' better could elaborate. That would still be less than a mile. Anyway, a cool development none the less.

[southslider]

_{I'm more curious about how far in to Uptown it would run, so that it could actually be a commuter option for Wesley Heights residents.}

[kermit]

^ The tracks which once extended into town have been removed east of Cedar st.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=28202&hl=en&ll=35.228512,-80.854866&spn=0.001301,0.002334&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=41.224889,76.464844&vpsrc=6&hnear=Charlotte,+North+Carolina+28202&t=h&z=19

[New Name]

The existing tracks are in real disrepair: gravel, grass covering whole sections. They'd have a lot of work to get them ready for anything to run on them...

[nonillogical]

As cool as it would be, I really see it as being laughable fuel for anti-transit people if the starter line only goes from Celadon to Cedar st. Some missing sections of track would need to be restored/extended to make this worthwhile. I think it NEEDS to go into uptown more, but I'm not sure if tracks could handle the incline where the greenway goes under the railroad tracks at BofA Stadium and rises to Graham, or if they can run it through the Hartigans parking lot in the first place.

[southslider]

Maybe turn at Cedar and serve as a spur off Center City Streetcar, connecting in Gateway Village via West Trade Street. Of course, the West Corridor is already planned to someday spur off West Trade at Cedar Street, but that is to head to Wilkinson Boulevard via West Morehead Street.

Alternatively, maybe spur off West Trade Street via Wesley Heights Way to Celadon. The distance between Celadon and West Trade appears to be a lot less than Hartigan's and West Trade. Still, I suppose this alternative would depend on whether the next phase of streetcar even reaches the Historic West End, for it may just barely make it to Gateway Village.

Edited November 4, 2011 by southslider

[Norm2]

Article in the Charlotte Observer discussing how the city might finance the red line. To sum up the article, the city might look at allowing light industrial development along the line to help pay for it. Thoughts?

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2011/11/15/2776586/lake-norman-rail-line-possible.html

[New Name]

This is basically an industrial-TIF, right? I mean, the hope was that places like Briton Development and Mount Mourne would generate tax increments to finance the line. Now that residential development can't help, why not explore industrial projects? But I wonder how "small" industrial projects might afford infrastructure for a freight train. Seems like "small" might be a misnomer.

Here is an article exploring how European cities are using the inner city trams to also transport goods. Think about how congested the roads are on I-77 @ Lake Norman and it's adjoining exits are (there is a Target and Harris Teeter at every exit for 6 straight exits). Surely decreased freight over road could help. But how do you transfer from the rail to their loading docks?

http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2011/10/23/opportunities-abound-for-transporting-goods-by-tram-if-properly-coordinated/

[southslider]

^^IMHO, the new approach for Red Line has two huge pros:

1) The value capture on industrial development, as well as TOD, means the full corridor helps fund the line, not just station areas.

2) Iredell County is more likely to support a project that not only adds commuter rail to Mooresville, but also freight rail to Statesville.

[caterpillar2]

It seems as if CATs and the city of Charlotte are willing to pay for half of the project if the towns on the line will pay the rest. It is definately looking more positive every day.

[kermit]

While extending the route to Statesville is a good idea have they said how they will do it? The existing route via Barber Junction is not direct enough for commuter service (although it would be fine -- perhaps better -- for freight). The old route direct from Moresville has been torn up from Mazeppa road to downtown Troutman. It looks like the ROW is _mostly_ intact but it does not appear to be owned by the state. Any idea who has possession of the route and which path they plan to use?

The outline of the route issue can be seen here: http://www.bytrain.org/quicklinks/pdf/nc_railmap_10.pdf

[southslider]

^I'm pretty sure Statesville-bound trains would be just freight, not commuters. Lowe's distribution center is in Statesville. Lowe's corporate is in Mount Mourne. The Red Line upgrades would also be limited south of Mooresville to Charlotte. But as shared tracks, freight going beyond Mooresville would still benefit.

[kermit]

It looks like applications for TIGER III have gone out, the Dept of Trans says that they will determine recipients before the end of the year.

Has anyone heard about any local applications?

EDIT: Well I found one local application "Racing to Charlotte: A Regional Greenway-Bikeway-Transit Network"

http://charmeck.org/mecklenburg/county/BOCC/Meetings/Agendas/Documents/1018/October182011-23d-.pdf

Edited November 16, 2011 by kermit

[kermit]

Discussion of the newly proposed red line freight / pax financing strategy made it into the Transportation Politic:

www.thetransportpolitic.com/2011/12/05/innovative-financing-points-the-way-ahead-for-a-rail-project-in-charlotte/

[dubone]

While the Carolina Thread Trail is a worthwhile endeavor, it is a shame we didn't put forth any other projects for TIGER III.

[kermit]

There is an interesting interview with Peter Rogoff (head of the Federal Transit Administration) about Charlotte transit at the Business Journal. While the interview touches on the Federal view on most aspects of Charlotte rail transit there is not much new ground broken by the piece.

http://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/blog/queen_city_agenda/2011/12/fta-chief-arrives-bearing-gifts.html?ed=2011-12-20&s=article_du&ana=e_du_pub&page=all

[kermit]

TIGER 4 grant applications are due on Feb 20. http://www.dot.gov/affairs/2012/dot1312.html

What should CATS reasonably ask for next? Its our last chance to lever the DNC.....

[tozmervo]

Something I'd always been interested in knowing, how the bus routes rank in ridership, showed up in the latest MTC agenda.

http://charmeck.org/city/charlotte/cats/about/CATSBoard/mtc/MTC%20Agenda/MTC%20Agenda%20January%2025,%202012.pdf page 20.