CATS Long Term Transit Plan - Silver, Red Lines

[jthomas]

It doesn't help that transportation funding is slanted so heavily in favor of roads that transit projects cannot be fully funded through "normal" budget channels. Instead, they have to go to a referendum to approve tax hikes for funding, which attracts all of the typical partisan rancor. Meanwhile, billion-dollar road projects get funded without the slightest level of public scrutiny.  If every freeway widening or bypass scheme had to be voted on, maybe folks would think more critically about the need for those projects.

[LKN704]

I came across this article the other day (https://tunnelingonline.com/why-tunnels-in-the-us-cost-much-more-than-anywhere-else-in-the-world/). Fascinating/amusing to me that TFL was able to build Crossrail/Elizabeth Line for a fraction of the cost of the 2nd Ave Subway in NYC (and I doubt we will see the entirety of the planned line completed to Downtown/Seaport in our lifetimes). 

[CLT>]

10 hours ago, LKN704 said:

I came across this article the other day (https://tunnelingonline.com/why-tunnels-in-the-us-cost-much-more-than-anywhere-else-in-the-world/). Fascinating/amusing to me that TFL was able to build Crossrail/Elizabeth Line for a fraction of the cost of the 2nd Ave Subway in NYC (and I doubt we will see the entirety of the planned line completed to Downtown/Seaport in our lifetimes). 

The US has the highest per mile construction costs for transit in the world by a LARGE margin... Throw tunnels in there... Phew...

[michaelef]

Duke is helping CATS change the bus fleet to electric. Not sure how long this will take. 

 

[JHart]

https://arrival.com/ 

[dubone]

On 10/30/2020 at 11:58 AM, michaelef said:

Duke is helping CATS change the bus fleet to electric. Not sure how long this will take. 

 

This is awesome!   Last time I read up on it, Lewis was saying all these things against BEV buses that were clearly not true compared Proterra's vehicle rages and the business model of paying for the battery over time to equate it with diesel costs.     I was frustrated reading CATS' negative comments about electric buses, but then thought there was hope when CLT Airport started buying Proterra buses. 

https://ngtnews.com/charlotte-airport-purchases-electric-buses-for-ground-transportation

 

But with Arrival Bus coming here, this would be the presumed winner of such a major announcement.   Proterra isn't far, their factory is in Greenville SC and as seen in the article about CLT Airport, has gone through the legal procurement process in Georgia, which makes it easier to go thru the bureaucratic process in other localities. 

Arrivals is quite new and interesting, and could be a strong indicator of being a contender since it appears Arrivals' process of building microfactories for a specific metro means it is targeted to a specific contract,. The fact they are building one in Rock Hill and opening their corporate office in Southend, it would seem this selection is either a done deal or at least a strong possibility.

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2020/10/19/arrival-corporate-office-charlotte.html

Quote

Serving local communities

Each Microfactory serves a city and its community – sourcing from the local area and developing custom vehicles for the region they’re in. By localising the supply chain, Microfactories help to reduce the environmental impact of manufacturing.

 

I really like the way Arrival uses new lighter materials, trying to re-create the whole concept of what a bus should be, in addition to the electrification process.    I hope that helps make the buses a vastly better experience for both users and for the community near where buses go.   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rr56Spb1Fjk

Now You  Know on Youtube did a segment on Arrival Buses in January.  Worth a look.   

 

Duke used to push for battery shuttles, and the original Gold Rush, the Uptown Circulator was a battery shuttle before switching to the gimmicky trolley buses.     Now that battery tech has progressed as far as it has, and the desperate need for us to get off of diesel and fossil fuels any way possible, this is a major announcement that I hope gets to be reality ASAP, both in Charlotte and nationally/globally. 

 

 

[kermit]

On the brighter side of the election, it looks like most transit tax referenda passed easily (including the ambitious Austin project). I have only found two exceptions so far, Gwinett County GA (second defeat in 2 years although it was super close) and Portland (which had a significant highway component in their funding). The virus does not appear to have damped the desire to expand transit.

Other places passing transit expansion taxes include (a partial list):

• SF Bay Area (Caltrain levy)
• San Antonio
• Seattle
• Fairfax, VA

https://usa.streetsblog.org/2020/11/04/state-and-local-transit-won-in-a-landslide-yesterday/

 

 

Edited November 5, 2020 by kermit

[Blue_Devil]

16 minutes ago, kermit said:

On the brighter side of the election, it looks like most transit tax referenda passed easily (including the ambitious Austin project). I have only found two exceptions so far, Gwinett County GA (second defeat in 2 years) and Portland. The virus does not appear to have damped the desire to expand transit.

It seems like Charlotte should have put a transit initiative on the ballot. Any reason they didn't?

[kermit]

12 minutes ago, Blue_Devil said:

It seems like Charlotte should have put a transit initiative on the ballot. Any reason they didn't?

Yea, they don’t have their crap together yet. They are waiting on prelim engineering on the Silver Line for better costing information. In addition, it does not appear they know how they plan to structure the funding requests (sales, vs land vs ?? taxes). Lewis’ foot dragging on the process has been unconscionable, but so has his operational management so we are stuck in this weird purgatory. 

[dubone]

I really have not been thrilled to see how Lewis manages this.   His opposition to electric buses, and his slowness to solve the fundamental problems with the rail system funding are disappointing to say the least. 

 

Hope the Silver line engineering gives them the details they need to really get together a proper funding plan.   

[southslider]

Gateway Station killed Silver Line

[Blue_Devil]

1 hour ago, southslider said:

Gateway Station killed Silver Line

???

[Hushpuppy321]

1 hour ago, southslider said:

Gateway Station killed Silver Line

Yeah - CATS can’t walk and chew gum at the same time but I don’t think Gateway ‘killed’ SilverLine but there probably won’t be any ‘Big Bang’ ballot initiatives until possibly the next presidential election cycle in 2024.  That would put things on track for start of construction in late 2027/2028

Edited November 12, 2020 by Hushpuppy321

[dubone]

9 hours ago, southslider said:

Gateway Station killed Silver Line

Is this new news behind the scenes?

[49er]

The Charlotte Moves Task Force is looking at something like what passed in Austin as a way forward. The referendum might include infrastructure other than transit. 

[Popsickle]

1 hour ago, 49er said:

The Charlotte Moves Task Force is looking at something like what passed in Austin as a way forward. The referendum might include infrastructure other than transit. 

Hope they don’t tack too much stuff into the referendum that could compromise it. 

[Windsurfer]

Interesting article in "The Davidsonian" about "talks" now between new leadership at NS and town mayors.  

http://www.davidsonian.com/future-public-transit-systems-will-be-a-game-changer-for-davidson-students/

[kermit]

Unless there is a senate surprise in Georgia it sounds like big budget increases for transit in the Biden administration are unlikely. That said, we can expect the new administration to pay out all of the FTA funding allocations (something the Trump admin never did) which is a positive for the Silver Line. The caveat is there is a significant backlog of projects waiting on funding since the tap was basically shut off the past four years.

https://www.transit.dot.gov/funding/grant-programs/capital-investments/current-capital-investment-grant-cig-projects  [the projects labeled **PD or NSE are waiting in line for funding]

On the bright side, it does sound like the Biden administration will refocus the TIGER / Build grant program back towards urban and non-highway projects and significantly increase the program budget.  I could see this being a useful source of income for Charlotte bike infrastructure (bridge over independence) and small transit projects like the new Southend rail station or a quick-start Seversville streetcar.

It might also be reasonable to expect existing budgets at the FRA to be allocated towards passenger improvements and Amtrak, so small improvements on the Piedmont route (including phase 2 of the still unused new equipment yard at Summit, and Harrisburg, Hillsborough and Lexington stations and possibly S-Line reconstruction) may be in the cards. Hopefully, the Triangle can get their commuter rail up and running as well (some FRA funds could help with capacity upgrades), success there would bode well for Charlotte's future with regional transit. 

 

Edited November 14, 2020 by kermit

[kermit]

OK, my new pet project for a Biden-era TIGER / BUILD grant is the Seversville Streetcar. Its 1.6 miles from Gateway station (from Graham) down to State Street (Blue Blaze). Other than street running on Graham for 3 blocks, nearly all of the ROW is available, owned by the city and I suspect very little utility relocation is necessary.  You might be able to share Silver Line ROW instead of street running on Graham.

This is about a half mile longer than Gold Line Phase 1. The route is short enough that you could single track much of the route if costs needed to be trimmed (create a passing track at a station around Walnut st). A connection to the Gold Line Trade street would allow these vehicles to share the existing service yard. Based on GL Phase 1, you might be able to build this whole thing for $30 million-ish (plus 2 new vehicles). All easily within the range of a TIGER / BUILD grant and the local contribution might be as cheap as ROW and some neighborhood infrastructure stuff.

It would provide a potential path for an extension to Thomasboro / Hoskins if a couple of industrial users decide to leave Lakewood and possibly the Music Factory and Greenville at the other end (but this would require an expensive overpass). This would also help densify some corners of uptown in need of it (parking lots at Cedar Yards) and reduce the barrier of the NS tracks. This rail stub would really improve livability in this corner of town and trigger a ton of RE development.

Edited November 18, 2020 by kermit

[kermit]

The Big Bang is finally starting to take shape. Funding will be raised for a "Transformational Mobility Network." (LRT, bus, bike and sidewalks). The recommendations from the task force are:

• Raise a $4-6 billion local share for an $8-12 billion program.
• Increase sales tax by .5 to 1 cent (either increase will require legislation from the GOP in Raleigh -- not a sure thing)
• Increase property tax rate to make up the balance of the local share
• Includes Ballantyne Blue Line extension
• Proposal will be presented to the council next month
• Referendum in "Fall 2021"

There is an awful lot that can go wrong here, particularly the 50% federal and state match and the legislative permission for the sales tax hike. Fortunately, the property tax hike  does not require a referendum and the 50% federal match on the Silver and BLE 2.0 seems likely during the Biden administration.

I would have liked to have seen a token car tab requirement (an add on fee to car registrations that goes to transit), but perhaps that gets the "freedom machine" crowd more worked up than is worthwhile for limited amount of revenue it would generate.

https://www.wsoctv.com/news/local/charlotte-taskforce-recommends-sales-property-tax-increases-expanded-transit/MTTA5MMGM5DAXBHXWDBULS2SJI/

 

Edited November 20, 2020 by kermit

[t_money]

perhaps we can just run the blue line along 485 to the new 'silver line' and then forever have more and more BLEs until its all one giant loop like a pretzel?

[tozmervo]

I wonder if an off-year referendum is better or worse for getting passed. The only positions on the Fall 2021 ballot will be city & CMS officials for all of the towns & city of charlotte. 

[kermit]

re Big Bang:

Study Committee Information is available here: https://charlottenc.gov/Mayor/Charlotte_Moves_Task_Force/Pages/default.aspx

and here is an interesting property tax and fee comparison of NC's largest cities. The largest proposed property tax increase ($86 for a median-priced house) for the Big Bang would still keep us at the bottom of this list. Adding a 1% sales tax hike (this would be the maximum hike that has been recommended) would put our total tax and fees at $3,901 total (just below Wilmington). So even at the worst case, these tax increases would not create big changes in our relative tax burden.

 

Edited November 21, 2020 by kermit

[Hushpuppy321]

On 11/20/2020 at 11:50 AM, tozmervo said:

I wonder if an off-year referendum is better or worse for getting passed. The only positions on the Fall 2021 ballot will be city & CMS officials for all of the towns & city of charlotte. 

I think it’s very much a risk - referendums can be easily defeated during low turnout elections.  

[kermit]