Hourglass District

[AmIReal]

4 hours ago, codypet said:

Which is why I suspect they're looking at annexation

Absolutely. Otherwise they will not be able to get the density bonus to make the costs work.

1 hour ago, AndyPok1 said:

I'd bet sewer as well.

According to GS they already bit the bullet on the sewer line issue. When the previous pizza company went under, the developer sought out a restaurant that they wanted to see located here- which was F&D. One of the requirements of the lease was connection to the City line.

On 9/20/2020 at 2:25 PM, codypet said:

Oh boy I can hear my neighbors complaining already.

I would think most in the adjoining neighborhoods will be pretty pleased with this, but I'd understand the closest houses being not too pleased. . Particularly, that 1st and 2nd line of houses directly behind the project will be looking out their front doors at a 5 story parking garage. So much for transition. The conceptional site plan does not indicate how much green space there is behind the garage, but that is where I- if I was a neighbor- would stand my ground. Make the developer create a green band/ well treed park to transition to the houses- maybe even a water feature.

[codypet]

1 hour ago, AmIReal said:

Absolutely. Otherwise they will not be able to get the density bonus to make the costs work.

According to GS they already bit the bullet on the sewer line issue. When the previous pizza company went under, the developer sought out a restaurant that they wanted to see located here- which was F&D. One of the requirements of the lease was connection to the City line.

I would think most in the adjoining neighborhoods will be pretty pleased with this, but I'd understand the closest houses being not too pleased. . Particularly, that 1st and 2nd line of houses directly behind the project will be looking out their front doors at a 5 story parking garage. So much for transition. The conceptional site plan does not indicate how much green space there is behind the garage, but that is where I- if I was a neighbor- would stand my ground. Make the developer create a green band/ well treed park to transition to the houses- maybe even a water feature.

Pepino's which was the original restaurant located at that spot kept failing health inspection because they had ceramic plates which they were not allowed to have because they had a septic tank instead of sewer connection. They pretty much went under because they kept failing inspection. Which is why I think National bit the bullet when the next restaurant came in. As far as the neighborhood complaining most are citing the fact that Briarcliff, Bumby, Primrose and Crystal Lake already can't handle the traffic going northand an apartment complex just to the South is not going to help anything. I personally don't think the end game is a 5 story apartment complex. I think they need something smaller than that but knew that it would hit opposition. By introducing something so large they can compromise to what they really want to build.

Edited September 22, 2020 by codypet

[AmIReal]

41 minutes ago, codypet said:

Pepino's which was the original restaurant located at that spot kept failing health inspection because they had ceramic plates which they were not allowed to have because they had a septic tank instead of sewer connection. They pretty much went under because they kept failing inspection. Which is why I think National bit the bullet when the next restaurant came in. As far as the neighborhood complaining most are citing the fact that Briarcliff, Bumby, Primrose and Crystal Lake already can't handle the traffic going northand an apartment complex just to the South is not going to help anything. I personally don't think the end game is a 5 story apartment complex. I think they need something smaller than that but knew that it would hit opposition. By introducing something so large they can compromise to what they really want to build.

Agreed. I think there is little chance this moves forward as proposed. However, as someone who does not live in the immediate area, but visits it frequently, I hope some semblance of the project is able to move forward. I agree that I see all kinds of traffic issues. CF narrows down to, brick paved lanes just a couple hundred yards from there. And Bumby and Primrose going under 408 are already terrible.  Adding 200-300 new residents with vehicles will be a problem. Also, I think I recall another apartment project planned for the general Conway/ CF area.

As discussed back in the days the City trialed the lane reduction on CF, much of the traffic on this road is passing through to points very far east of there. I assume the planners feel if they make drivers miserable enough it will force them to use 408.

[codypet]

That was the intent.  To push them up Conway onto the 408.  Unfortunately the response was I'd rather cut through these neighborhoods than pay the toll.  It doesn't help noone seems to respect the 35 mph speed limit on CF.  The study actually acknowledge this and recommends the buildings be built closer to the road to create a sense of tightness around the road.  Similar to the difference of speeds you see on Orange in front of the Sentinel vs in front of the Beachham.

[jack]

Fascinating info. I hope they are successful. 

[AmIReal]

Some additional info in the OBJ article re: the NRE Hourglass project. They are partnering with the developer of Tampa's Armature Works another Tampa developer and a Tampa attorney.  I had some concerns about NRE being able to finance this, but given the other players I don't think that will be an issue.

https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2020/09/22/apartment-project-hourglass-district.html

Edited September 23, 2020 by AmIReal

[codypet]

Armature works was the partner in the original restaurant concept too right?  

[AmIReal]

50 minutes ago, codypet said:

Armature works was the partner in the original restaurant concept too right?  

The auto shop? I had never heard a name associated with it, only that it was to be a breakfast/ lunch sort of place with a "well known" partner.

Interesting to see Armature pop up here though, considering the other Tampa food hall developer (Franklin) is associated with the Yard.

[codypet]

https://bungalower.com/2019/11/19/hourglass-car-wash-to-become-retail-hub/

Yep they were mentioned in this article almost a year ago

[AmIReal]

Another tidbit on this project... NRE is under contract to buy the old gas station on Bumby, just south of CF (1700 S. Bumby). I had just assumed they already had this property since they bought up everything else nearby.

I had heard NRE was the new developer of the Colonial Lanes building a while back (remember Rampy was briefly involved here), but for some reason thought they sold out of their position. I guess not, as the article says they are beginning work on reno of the site.

https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2020/09/23/more-construction-planned-near-hourglass-district.html?cx_testId=40&cx_testVariant=cx_11&cx_artPos=1#cxrecs_s

Nothing major planned- it will still be a bowling alley and arcade.

[codypet]

10 hours ago, AmIReal said:

Another tidbit on this project... NRE is under contract to buy the old gas station on Bumby, just south of CF (1700 S. Bumby). I had just assumed they already had this property since they bought up everything else nearby.

I had heard NRE was the new developer of the Colonial Lanes building a while back (remember Rampy was briefly involved here), but for some reason thought they sold out of their position. I guess not, as the article says they are beginning work on reno of the site.

https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2020/09/23/more-construction-planned-near-hourglass-district.html?cx_testId=40&cx_testVariant=cx_11&cx_artPos=1#cxrecs_s

Nothing major planned- it will still be a bowling alley and arcade.

The Citgo and warehouse on the west side of Bumby that's going to be townhomes?  I'm surprised they haven't started building those yet.  Also what happened to the houses that were supposed to go up behind the Irish pub/Cilantros?  I would have thought building the houses would have been the easiest part.

Good about the bowling alley and arcade.....I miss them so much.

[jack]

23 hours ago, AmIReal said:

Some additional info in the OBJ article re: the NRE Hourglass project. They are partnering with the developer of Tampa's Armature Works another Tampa developer and a Tampa attorney.  I had some concerns about NRE being able to finance this, but given the other players I don't think that will be an issue.

https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2020/09/22/apartment-project-hourglass-district.html

Soho capital is well capitalized. Glad to see them involved. 

If all this comes to fruition, we should all pool our money and buy any other available land! 

[codypet]

2 hours ago, jack said:

Soho capital is well capitalized. Glad to see them involved. 

If all this comes to fruition, we should all pool our money and buy any other available land! 

If I was gonna buy any land, it would be the abandoned Appliance Direct/Rooms 2 Go warehouses in Altamonte.  That'd be my next TOD.  Get it built before City of Altamonte replaces the City Hall complex with their own TOD.

Edited September 24, 2020 by codypet

[Jolly Roger's Crackers]

On 9/23/2020 at 10:26 AM, AmIReal said:

Some additional info in the OBJ article re: the NRE Hourglass project. They are partnering with the developer of Tampa's Armature Works another Tampa developer and a Tampa attorney.  I had some concerns about NRE being able to finance this, but given the other players I don't think that will be an issue.

https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2020/09/22/apartment-project-hourglass-district.html

Oh FFS....there apparently is no escape from this? I like my nearby neighborhoods quiet and LOCAL.  Dammitt.

Edited September 24, 2020 by Jolly Roger's Crackers

[orlandoguy]

Oh FFS....there apparently is no escape from this is there? I like my nearby neighborhoods quiet and LOCAL.  Dammitt.

I hear ya and- granted I don’t live DIRECTLY behind the area surrounding the Bumby/CF intersection- but as a nearby homeowner I welcome the development.

I love being able to stay in my own neighborhood for restaurants, shopping, and socializing 5 days out of 7. It fosters a sense of community and place for what previously was a unique-if-boring amalgam if upscale neighborhood (Bel Air), middle class residences (Lake Como), and nondescript county residential (south of CF) - dotted with businesses that were nothing special. Now I actually patronize the businesses in this district, know my bartenders by name, and recommend retail establishments to friends who live in other downtown neighborhoods. It definitely helps provide a sense of belonging and pride.

[Jolly Roger's Crackers]

I've always loved the local "feel" of this (and the surrounding) areas. Local bars...local restaurants...local home furnishing shops...all using EXISTING buildings in the area....recycling and repurposing them. This is just another homogenized corporate "dump" in this neighborhood. I may be alone but I find it depressing...and that these neighborhoods/districts will slowly lose their identity. That's all.  Cheers.

Edited September 24, 2020 by Jolly Roger's Crackers

[spenser1058]

I always liked the scale of the Dover Center. The First Federal building was also great for a bank branch with lots of windows and open space.

Did. I mention the Krystal and the DQ..?

[AmIReal]

1 hour ago, Jolly Roger's Crackers said:

I've always loved the local "feel" of this (and the surrounding) areas. Local bars...local restaurants...local home furnishing shops...all using EXISTING buildings in the area....recycling and repurposing them. This is just another homogenized corporate "dump" in this neighborhood. I may be alone but I find it depressing...and that these neighborhoods/districts will slowly lose their identity. That's all.  Cheers.

I respectfully disagree. I appreciate you live in the neighborhood and I do not, but if not for the restaurants that this developer has brought in, I would have no reason to visit. This corner was anchored by a decrepit 7-11. NRE brought in Foxtail, Claddagh, F&D, Hourglass Brewing, Tamale Co... and this project will add more of the same plus customers for them. I also give NRE credit that every one of their vendors is a local company. Its not like they are doing Starbucks, Subway or other suburban chains. And because they have made the neighborhood interesting to investors the WCF district also now has Uncommon Catering, Papa Llama, the dog/ coffee shop, etc.

Again, I don't live there so I don't have to put up with the newly created traffic, but from my perspective this is now a very desirable neighborhood and the property values are reflect that (I do own property nearby so I can confirm that).

[JFW657]

1 hour ago, AmIReal said:

I respectfully disagree. I appreciate you live in the neighborhood and I do not, but if not for the restaurants that this developer has brought in, I would have no reason to visit. This corner was anchored by a decrepit 7-11. NRE brought in Foxtail, Claddagh, F&D, Hourglass Brewing, Tamale Co... and this project will add more of the same plus customers for them. I also give NRE credit that every one of their vendors is a local company. Its not like they are doing Starbucks, Subway or other suburban chains. And because they have made the neighborhood interesting to investors the WCF district also now has Uncommon Catering, Papa Llama, the dog/ coffee shop, etc.

Again, I don't live there so I don't have to put up with the newly created traffic, but from my perspective this is now a very desirable neighborhood and the property values are reflect that (I do own property nearby so I can confirm that).

I tend to agree with JRC. 

The project is out of scale with its surroundings and doesn't fit the overall "feel" of the neighborhood.

I'd like to have seen the old garage building reno'd and turned into a nice, friendly little establishment.

And the car wash conversion completed, too.

Those would have constituted a major improvement that also fit in.

[codypet]

Its way out of scale for the neighborhood, and believe it or not doesn't jive with the glidepath maps for the airports either.  I suspect the goal is 3 stories and they proposed this mammoth to make the real design easier to swallow.

[JFW657]

41 minutes ago, codypet said:

Its way out of scale for the neighborhood, and believe it or not doesn't jive with the glidepath maps for the airports either.  I suspect the goal is 3 stories and they proposed this mammoth to make the real design easier to swallow.

That is hard to believe.

Though I do believe you. 

[HankStrong]

As someone who has an investment property here, I agree it's a tad out of scale, but I think complaining about what it is replacing is just nuts.

You are taking away mostly GARBAGE and replacing it with retail and housing for people who are actively interested in improving this neighborhood.  This isn't one of @spenser1058's things to save.  This is a block that looks bad (except F&D, which still is only passable, not great) and putting something that will raise everyone's home & property values.  It is a solid investment in the neighborhood.

I don't know about the airport stuff, but I think the scale will work itself out in the end.

[JFW657]

41 minutes ago, HankStrong said:

As someone who has an investment property here, I agree it's a tad out of scale, but I think complaining about what it is replacing is just nuts.

You are taking away mostly GARBAGE and replacing it with retail and housing for people who are actively interested in improving this neighborhood.  This isn't one of @spenser1058's things to save.  This is a block that looks bad (except F&D, which still is only passable, not great) and putting something that will raise everyone's home & property values.  It is a solid investment in the neighborhood.

I don't know about the airport stuff, but I think the scale will work itself out in the end.

I can't agree with you there, Hank. Certainly in its present state, the old garage is trashy looking. But the building has some character and could easily be renovated into something exceptional Surround it with the proper landscaping, put the parking in back and you'd have something that not only preserves the history of the neighborhood, but retains the character of it as well.

Bringing retail and housing into Hourglass is a laudable goal, but plopping yet another example of generic, modern day crapitecture that will stick out like a sore thumb not only because of the incongruous design elements but the oversized scale, is not IMO the best way to accomplish it.

The only reason this project is being proposed is because it is what will make the developers the most $$$$$$.

[codypet]

10 hours ago, JFW657 said:

That is hard to believe.

Though I do believe you. 

These were the maps I was looking at.

This development is inside that 263 flat spot.   I don't know if they'll be applying for some sort of variance.

Edited September 25, 2020 by codypet

[jack]

11 hours ago, codypet said:

Its way out of scale for the neighborhood, and believe it or not doesn't jive with the glidepath maps for the airports either.  I suspect the goal is 3 stories and they proposed this mammoth to make the real design easier to swallow.

Three stories would be hard to pull off. Not a lot of units unless the goal is class B project. Not impossible but tough. 

16 hours ago, Jolly Roger's Crackers said:

I've always loved the local "feel" of this (and the surrounding) areas. Local bars...local restaurants...local home furnishing shops...all using EXISTING buildings in the area....recycling and repurposing them. This is just another homogenized corporate "dump" in this neighborhood. I may be alone but I find it depressing...and that these neighborhoods/districts will slowly lose their identity. That's all.  Cheers.

As an outsider, it looks and feels very nice.