BridgeWay Station mixed use development-Mauldin, SC

[GvilleSC]

2 minutes ago, vistatiger said:

Is this a joke.? The original design was way better. This looks hideous.. Who is going to be the anchor tenant - Medieval Times?????

This. 

[Cityplanner]

53 minutes ago, gman430 said:

Another thing is why didn’t the city try harder to land Southern First downtown instead of having them build a new office building at Verdae? Same goes with Carolina First (TD Bank) back in 2006? Hmmm. The City of Greenville is not aggressive enough in trying to land new office tenants downtown. They’re more worried about affordable housing and a new overpriced park. 

Agreed.  And the city and county could simply adopt zoning that would prioritize large-scale commercial development downtown, but they don't.  That wouldn't cost a cent of tax "incentives".

However, the fact that the Hughes have so much development downtown (part of Riverplace, ONE, etc.) indicates to me that they think that both can coexist.  Clearly both downtown and suburban offices can coexist; downtown has only about half of Greenville County's office space (if that).  Building more suburban developments doesn't help, though.  

[vicupstate]

1 hour ago, gman430 said:

Another thing is why didn’t the city try harder to land Southern First downtown instead of having them build a new office building at Verdae? Same goes with Carolina First (TD Bank) back in 2006? Hmmm. The City of Greenville is not aggressive enough in trying to land new office tenants downtown. They’re more worried about affordable housing and a new overpriced park. 

Those banks build in the suburban areas because it is cheaper to do so. Bridgeway will give them yet another cheap alternative. 

That 'overpriced' park is being built with 50% private money.  

Quote

And the city and county could simply adopt zoning that would prioritize large-scale commercial development downtown, but they don't. 

DT is all zoned C-4 which allows the highest possible density. The zoning is NOT the issue.   

[goodbye]

I have been a strong supporter of growth in Greenville's urban core.  This remains true today.  AND I love the BridgeWay Station proposal.  Thank you, Hughes team, for taking a BOLD stand against the generic and bland architecture of our era.  Competition may be good for the City of Greenville, even if a few points are lost during the process.

[gman430]

1 hour ago, vistatiger said:

Is this a joke.? The original design was way better. This looks hideous.. Who is going to be the anchor tenant - Medieval Times?????

Wait...you mean to tell me it’s not a four story wooden box apartment building or an office building with a UFO flying saucer on the end of it??? Thank goodness. It’s a Christmas miracle.  Finally an architect and developer who aren’t afraid to go outside of Greenville’s comfort zone.

Edited April 8, 2021 by gman430

[Cityplanner]

44 minutes ago, vicupstate said:

Those banks build in the suburban areas because it is cheaper to do so. Bridgeway will give them yet another cheap alternative. 

That 'overpriced' park is being built with 50% private money.  

DT is all zoned C-4 which allows the highest possible density. The zoning is NOT the issue.   

For zoning, the city and county could simply ban office developments above a certain number of square feet in suburban areas.  And set the maximum permitted amount pretty low.  Result?  Any large office developments have to be downtown.

Now we don’t have the idiots in charge who allowed 3 large malls to be built near each other within a 12-year span, but the same mentality of “build anything!  Growth at all costs!  Woo hoo!” is still around.

[distortedlogic]

1 hour ago, vistatiger said:

Is this a joke.? The original design was way better. This looks hideous.. Who is going to be the anchor tenant - Medieval Times?????

Yep. Infinitely better than Alofts "Cinder Blocks R Us" or the 50 things going up downtown that scream "Self Storage of America. " So glad someone is thinking outside the box and putting up something with character and thought besides the Bohemian.  Brovo! 

[goodbye]

So, assuming we survive long enough, I wonder if we may all someday look back and shake our heads at the banter if every property along I-385 has been developed (including an unusually attractive BridgeWay Station in Mauldin) and downtown Greenville is twice as large as it is today?

[Cityplanner]

1 hour ago, Skyliner said:

So, assuming we survive long enough, I wonder if we may all someday look back and shake our heads at the banter if every property along I-385 has been developed (including an unusually attractive BridgeWay Station in Mauldin) and downtown Greenville is twice as large as it is today?

I don't want properties along I-385 developed.  The last thing we need is more car-centric suburban sprawl.  If we're going to have suburban commercial development, I'd like it to be like BridgeWay; I think that it's a very nice-looking development, and pedestrian-friendly.  But most development along highways is not.  

EDITED TO ADD: Sorry, everyone.  I'm not looking to fight, and Skyliner, I'm definitely not looking to disagree with you or your posts.  I just carried away once I get on soapbox.  I'd just love a spotlessly-clean, walkable and transit-friendly urban core, full of upscale everything.  Greenville's definitely getting there, and it's far ahead of a lot of cities.

Edited April 9, 2021 by Cityplanner

[goodbye]

31 minutes ago, Cityplanner said:

I don't want properties along I-385 developed.  The last thing we need is more car-centric suburban sprawl.  If we're going to have suburban commercial development, I'd like it to be like BridgeWay; I think that it's a very nice-looking development, and pedestrian-friendly.  But most development along highways is not.  

I understand and agree with your assessment of the exasperating and monotonous suburban sprawl.  However, the reality facing these properties is inevitable development, whether we like it or not.  Unfortunately much of the suburban sprawl is extremely short-sighted and poorly planned.  BridgeWay Station is a shockingly fresh aberration.

Edited April 9, 2021 by Skyliner

[Exile]

3 hours ago, vicupstate said:

Those banks build in the suburban areas because it is cheaper to do so. Bridgeway will give them yet another cheap alternative.

This is a good thing--for the banks. And that's really all that matters in these specific cases. They're beholden to their own preferences and their shareholders, not to your or my vision of what proper development ought to look like.

 

 

 

[distortedlogic]

Just looking at the numbers, this will include only 73k square feet of office with the rest being other things; the vast majority of which is residential.  This shouldn't affect office space elsewhere in the county. I absolutely love this. Further,  I know we all want stuff downtown, but as cities and metros grow, they inevitably start developing other nodes of urban density than just their downtowns and in just their primary citys. Plus, this is only phase one. The UBJ article says future phases will include hundreds of millions of investment.  

Edited April 9, 2021 by distortedlogic

[gman430]

1 hour ago, distortedlogic said:

Just looking at the numbers, this will include only 73k square feet of office with the rest being other things; the vast majority of which is residential.  This shouldn't affect office space elsewhere in the county. I absolutely love this. Further,  I know we all want stuff downtown, but as cities and metros grow, they inevitably start developing other nodes of urban density than just their downtowns and in just their primary citys. Plus, this is only phase one. The UBJ article says future phases will include hundreds of millions of investment.  

I might be wrong but that 73,000 might also be the building already built on site. The square footage is the same: https://www.cbre.us/resources/fileassets/US-SMPL-59929/1830c9c7/7eb70526-9bee-4d91-805c-c8c8f9f0067f.pdf

[gman430]

Full build out: 

Edited April 9, 2021 by gman430

[hauntedheadnc]

11 hours ago, gman430 said:

Wait...you mean to tell me it’s not a four story wooden box apartment building or an office building with a UFO flying saucer on the end of it??? Thank goodness. It’s a Christmas miracle.  Finally an architect and developer who aren’t afraid to go outside of Greenville’s comfort zone.

You call it the UFO?  I always thought of those as oatmeal can towers.  

This development is over on my side of town, and as someone who moved here from Asheville, frankly it makes me all giggly.  I love neo-historical architecture when its done right, and this area already has a track record of that.  Neo-historic is Spartanburg's signature style, for example.  It can be done right, and with it being done right already all over the area, why wouldn't it be done right here?

Edited April 9, 2021 by hauntedheadnc

[Joey_Blackdogg]

Guys... You cannot be serious... a miniature stucco'd Arc de Triumph with 12 foot scary metal fencing across the interstate... No way.

Also, are the ruins here intended or a plan to run out of $$$  This is going to end up looking like one of those 90s Italian restaurants that have the fake grapevines hanging up everywhere. I mean, there's a pool on top of the castle of ruins...

I understand a desire for less boxy, flatroofs, but... do we really need 6 bell towers in the same plaza? There is so much concrete in this plan it is baffling. Not a fan. 

[gman430]

Hughes is trying to go for the actual places you see in pics here: https://69cccc58-8e21-41cb-8c83-cf46b75ff3fb.filesusr.com/ugd/1bb3d9_db9f90a1389248af91922993dd37720f.pdf It all depends on the materials and colors used as to whether he can pull it off. Either we will get a beautiful Italian style looking town center or Disney World.

Edited April 9, 2021 by gman430

[GvilleSC]

26 minutes ago, gman430 said:

Hughes is trying to go for the actual places you see in pics here: https://69cccc58-8e21-41cb-8c83-cf46b75ff3fb.filesusr.com/ugd/1bb3d9_db9f90a1389248af91922993dd37720f.pdf It all depends on the materials and colors used as to whether he can pull it off. Either we will get a beautiful Italian style looking town center or Disney World.

They're building fake ruins. It will be Disney World on a MUCH smaller budget. 

[cabelagent]

24 minutes ago, gman430 said:

Hughes is trying to go for the actual places you see in pics here: https://69cccc58-8e21-41cb-8c83-cf46b75ff3fb.filesusr.com/ugd/1bb3d9_db9f90a1389248af91922993dd37720f.pdf It all depends on the materials and colors used as to whether he can pull it off. Either we will get a beautiful Italian style looking town center or Disney World.

If it's Disney...hope  they add neat rides plus Mickey & Minnie meandering around posing for pics.  Of course....Goofy too.    

[goodbye]

BridgeWay Station in Mauldin:

 

Downtown Greenville:

 

No "Disney" anywhere here.  Not even Carowinds, Six Flags, or Dollywood.

[gman430]

36 minutes ago, GvilleSC said:

They're building fake ruins. It will be Disney World on a MUCH smaller budget. 

I think once the project is fully built out, the whole development will look a lot better and have a more town center feel to it. The plaza area will blend in more with surrounding buildings on all sides and not stick out so much. I expect it be very similar to the NOMA, ONE and Camperdown plazas downtown when everything is all said and done. At least that’s my hope. Glass half full.

Edited April 9, 2021 by gman430

[Cityplanner]

I don't see how the market can support millions of square feet of additional suburban commercial space, unless it's storage or warehouse space.  Office and retail?  Nope, the market is already significantly overbuilt. 

[GvilleSC]

10 hours ago, gman430 said:

I might be wrong but that 73,000 might also be the building already built on site. The square footage is the same: https://www.cbre.us/resources/fileassets/US-SMPL-59929/1830c9c7/7eb70526-9bee-4d91-805c-c8c8f9f0067f.pdf

That has to be true. I can't imagine them constructing new office space right now. The first phase will rely heavily on apartments, and probably senior living (as the "Institutional Development"). And that's it for the immediate future. 

Edited April 9, 2021 by GvilleSC

[gman430]

1 minute ago, Cityplanner said:

I don't see how the market can support millions of square feet of additional suburban commercial space, unless it's storage or warehouse space.  Office and retail?  Nope, the market is already significantly overbuilt. 

Apparently Hughes has leases signed for a good chunk of the space in phase 1. At least that’s what was said in the press release.

[GvilleSC]

Just now, gman430 said:

Apparently Hughes has leases signed for a good chunk of the space in phase 1. At least that’s what was said in the press release.

Well, yes -- he is the master developer and planner for this site. I'm sure he has a developer for the apartment portion (if not his company) and an operator lined up for what I'm assuming to be senior living. That could easily cover what his press release is stating. I wouldn't get too enthused about semantics on a piece of paper that is meant to build hype and attract money. Just keep things in perspective.