Bank of America Stadium Renovation

[kermit]

You can also argue that transit improves regional competitiveness, I think its clear that job growth anywhere in the state benefits us all.

[ah59396]

Haha, I'm not trying to argue the merits of transit funding. Simply stating that it's riculous to get into the "how does funding x in Charlotte benefit Raleigh". It's a rabbit hole not worth entering.

[jednc]

How about this argument? If the Panthers eventually leave because some other city is willing to provide funding for the stadium the Panthers want/need then the State of NC loses out on all the money the Panthers currently bring in (taxes both direct and indirect). Is that enough of a state benefit?

[ssh214]

Interesting article:

http://deadspin.com/5988893/leaked-nfl-documents-while-owner-cried-hardship-carolina-panthers-had-112-million-profit-over-two-years

[WesleyHeightsWay]

Found it interesting that the Panthers had an operating profit of $78.7m in 2011 and $33.3 in 2012.

2013 is expected to be even more profitable w/ the NFL's new TV contact, estimated at an additional $60-65m annually.

http://m.deadspin.com/5988893/leaked-nfl-documents-while-owner-cried-hardship-carolina-panthers-had-112-million-profit-over-two-years

[Green_man]

Haha, I'm not trying to argue the merits of transit funding. Simply stating that it's riculous to get into the "how does funding x in Charlotte benefit Raleigh". It's a rabbit hole not worth entering.

 

My point is that funding stadium upgrades doesn't even benefit the city of Charlotte.  (No new jobs, no additional source of tax revenue).  Just saying that usually you look for a return on investment - a city or state investment in stadium upgrades just does not exist without even further investment down the road to get a Super Bowl.

[Missmylab4]

So it would be better to let the team walk away since no new jobs will be created?? At that point you've lost jobs and hurt the local economy.

Furthermore, my state funds went to the Carolina hurricanes stadium/arena.

The benefits of the team far out weigh letting them potentially leave. That is a fact, this helped people realize Charlotte was not Charleston.

[Green_man]

The team potentially leaving is a separate issue.  If that's the case, then the discussion should be framed that however many millions of dollars the city and state are funding are going to the team's front office to keep them in Charlotte.  You can actually calculate a return on investment in that case.  Just call it what it is.  City & state paying for escalators and jumbotrons does nothing to help anyone.  City & state putting cash in panthers pockets to keep them - that should be the discussion if you want to talk about the merits of the funding.

[southslider]

There is no merit to an analysis of ROI, when the motive is ransom.

[AuLukey]

You have to consider that this is not a "bribe" to keep the Panthers in Charlotte.  To keep a team in the highly profitable NFL, you have to be able to provide that team with adequate facilities.  We do still have one of the better stadiums in the NFL (when looking at some stadiums that are almost twice as old,) but upgrades are definitely necessary to keep up with current standards.  Some city's use private funding, city funding, county funding, and/or state funding.  Simply put, it's all in whether the team and/or owner wants to foot the bill to upgrade the facilities on their own.  In the Panthers' case, they are not.  They are an asset to this city, we should not let them ever consider relocation for any reason.  It gives the city a black eye and a poor reputation.  Civic pride does have a cost.

[southslider]

I agree upgrades are needed.  That's why it's also foolish to delay the CIP.  Charlotte's reputation is in much greater danger, if it cannot sustain its growth with supporting infrastructure than if it lost a football team.

 

It's complete nonsense to ask a city incapable of its own upgrades (CIP) right now to tax its citizens even more for stadium upgrades, especially when the ones asking (Panthers) are profitable and could afford it on their own.

 

Mayor Foxx needs to delay streetcar for the greater good of other investments.  The Panthers should suck it up some, too, and share more of the cost of their own upgrades.

[nowensone]

Not sure of any precedence other than the Packers, which was in a different era and wouldn't be very comparable, but perhaps the city should offer to buy the team from Richardson, who it seems has indicated some reluctance to leave to his heirs.  I doubt that any bureaucracy could make $50 million a year as he has however even if less that is still a nicely profitable enterprise, and affords all kinds of opportunities of a self financing nature.  Not to mention, the Panthers would be in no danger of leaving Charlotte.

[DEnd]

Not sure of any precedence other than the Packers, which was in a different era and wouldn't be very comparable, but perhaps the city should offer to buy the team from Richardson, who it seems has indicated some reluctance to leave to his heirs. I doubt that any bureaucracy could make $50 million a year as he has however even if less that is still a nicely profitable enterprise, and affords all kinds of opportunities of a self financing nature. Not to mention, the Panthers would be in no danger of leaving Charlotte.

 

I'd have to look into the by-laws of the NFL again, but I don't think the NFL allows municipal ownership. Other than the Packers, they have a maximum number of investors a team is allowed to have. A team is not allowed more than 32 owners, the principal owner can own as little as 10% of the team provided other family members own another 20%. From what I recall those owners have to be individuals.

[Urbanity]

^Oh yeah - Charlotte buying a piece of the Panthers would go over so well with both local taxpayers and Raleigh...

[nowensone]

You're probably right but in theory it's not a bad idea if there is money to made from it.  God forbid should government be smart.

[MilZ]

Ok, I like Carlee.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/blog/queen_city_agenda/2013/04/terms-likely-to-shift-on-carolina.html

[ah59396]

Yep, I like him too.  Really liked what he had to say on NPR the other morning, the guy just "gets it".  I do not want to lose the Panthers over this.  You want to talk about being "world class" or "an up and coming city", well nothing goes against that grain more than losing TWO pro-sports teams in roughly a decade.  Regardless of the circumstances.

[queensguy06]

On Yahoo News I stumbled across this article from Forbes about the deal between the Panthers and the city to fund the stadium rennovations.  Essentially, when you break out how much paid versus number of years a team is guaranteed to stay in the city, the Panther's have gotten the third highest payout from taxpayers in NFL history.  I have supported using taxpayer money to help with the plans, but this certainly makes me feel like the city was shafted by the team.

 

Another key note in all of this - Since '96, the Panthers have only had 4 winning seasons.  Raises the question of what type of product are we really buying?

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2013/05/01/carolina-panthers-get-third-richest-taxpayer-gift-in-nfl-history/?partner=yahootix

[jednc]

On Yahoo News I stumbled across this article from Forbes about the deal between the Panthers and the city to fund the stadium rennovations.  Essentially, when you break out how much paid versus number of years a team is guaranteed to stay in the city, the Panther's have gotten the third highest payout from taxpayers in NFL history.  I have supported using taxpayer money to help with the plans, but this certainly makes me feel like the city was shafted by the team.

 

Another key note in all of this - Since '96, the Panthers have only had 4 winning seasons.  Raises the question of what type of product are we really buying?

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2013/05/01/carolina-panthers-get-third-richest-taxpayer-gift-in-nfl-history/?partner=yahootix

The only people who are buying "the product" are the ticket holders. No one ever said the city was paying anything for a winning record out otherwise. Do you think the value of the team is based on their record?

[queensguy06]

^You're right, no one ever said that the city was paying for a winning record.  But what is the ultimate goal of a sports franchise? To be mediocre?  To say record has little or nothing to do with a city's decision on giving taxpayer money to the organization would be wrong.  Do you think that if the Jaguars went to the city of Jacksonville and asked for the same deal the city would not look at the teams terrible record as one of the reasons the stadium is half empty every game?  And would the taxpayers of the city hold their representatives accountable in such a deal?  I disagree that the only people buying the product are ticket holders.  Even if I didn't go to a single game, I still have an interest by subsidizing the stadium.  If ticket holders were the only people buying the product, then Jerry Richardson would be able to fund these upgrades with the money generated by the team and not need to go to the city/taxpayers for that cash.  I do agree that the actual value of a team is not tied to records, but the city doesn't hold the value of the team, the owner does. 

[DEnd]

If ticket holders were the only people buying the product, then Jerry Richardson would be able to fund these upgrades with the money generated by the team and not need to go to the city/taxpayers for that cash.  I do agree that the actual value of a team is not tied to records, but the city doesn't hold the value of the team, the owner does. 

 

Jerry ain't poor, and the renovations he wants are entirely within his reach.  He has more than doubled his initial investment, and made hundreds of millions.  The only reason for it was to keep the Panthers in Charlotte after Jerry dies.

 

Only six years is a joke.  I don't know Jerry's health at all, but he has an average life expectancy of 11.5 years after his heart transplant, though that doesn't take his age or any other health problems into account.  87 million is an awful lot of money to gamble that Jerry will die before the average heart transplant recipient.  Instead of giving the city a likely 5-10 years to work with a new owner, the agreement basically makes the city have to negotiate with a new owner as soon as he/she buys the team, which is exactly where the city would be without giving him the money.  The only positive thing it might do is give Charlotte a chance to host the Super Bowl.

[notcreative00]

Does anyone know what they are doing to the entrances now where the green fencing is up? Also the past few nights they have had two sections lit up. One with a teal light and the other with a blue light. Any idea if they plan to do this around the whole stadium? It would be neat to see them add LED's like this to add some more color to the skyline at night. 

[Guest]

Does anyone know what they are doing to the entrances now where the green fencing is up? Also the past few nights they have had two sections lit up. One with a teal light and the other with a blue light. Any idea if they plan to do this around the whole stadium? It would be neat to see them add LED's like this to add some more color to the skyline at night. 

They are expanding the entrances to make it easier to get in on game day.

[jordan704]

New leds installed under the stadium. Cant wait to see when its all the way around. Looks great! 

 

Sorry pic is so blurry! 

 

[jordan704]

New entrances

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(Larger Image) http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/2950/3w8q.jpg