Brightline Trains

[dcluley98]

Many of us knew it was going to be at the Cocoa Curve behind the Wal-mart.  For some reason I thought I had said this previously, but I can't remember.  The bigger news was Stuart.  I felt pretty confident the location would be in Stuart, not in Ft. Pierce, because of the economic factors. 

[aent]

2 hours ago, dcluley98 said:

Many of us knew it was going to be at the Cocoa Curve behind the Wal-mart.  For some reason I thought I had said this previously, but I can't remember.  The bigger news was Stuart.  I felt pretty confident the location would be in Stuart, not in Ft. Pierce, because of the economic factors. 

It appears the number one factor in these decisions was number of seconds it adds to the travel time. Both stations are located where the train needs to slow down anyways due to curves.

[shardoon]

13 minutes ago, aent said:

It appears the number one factor in these decisions was number of seconds it adds to the travel time. Both stations are located where the train needs to slow down anyways due to curves.

Yep. It's already 3 hours 25 min to Miami. If they keep chipping on more, a car starts to become faster even with traffic. 

[dcluley98]

30 minutes ago, aent said:

It appears the number one factor in these decisions was number of seconds it adds to the travel time. Both stations are located where the train needs to slow down anyways due to curves.

Agreed, which is why many of us knew it was slated for the Cocoa curve. It is slowing down there anyway, so doesn't add as much time wasted for the stop. As for Stuart, that bridge is supposedly getting fixed, so I am not so sure that was the deciding factor on Stuart. The demographics and ridership probably was a large factor. 

[jrs2]

17 hours ago, dcluley98 said:

Agreed, which is why many of us knew it was slated for the Cocoa curve. It is slowing down there anyway, so doesn't add as much time wasted for the stop. As for Stuart, that bridge is supposedly getting fixed, so I am not so sure that was the deciding factor on Stuart. The demographics and ridership probably was a large factor. 

Regarding Cocoa-- true, but this was a common sense no brainer.  We're talking about a private company here, not The State or FDOT.  Their focus is money, not ridiculousness.

Roaming Rail Fan would show drone video of that zone, time and again, and, Google Map (if people just spend a few minutes looking closely) showed (and shows) not only the Cocoa Curve, the cross streets and tunnels FEC built, but also the FEC rail yard already there (to the north) and all the vacant land around there.  Cocoa Curve is also at 528 (which leads right at Port Canaveral) with two exits in close proximity to one another; merely two blocks apart.

So, the whole "slowing down and what not" as a factor aside, all these other factors made it very apparent that it would go somewhere here, which make it the natural location for a station. 

Also, busses from the future station could literally get on an EB ramp to 528 extremely quickly if on Industry Rd, Grissom, Clearlake, or, even US-1 (where the second ramp is).  Personally I think the station will be off of Industry Road to keep Port Canaveral busses off of US-1.

If Port Canaveral didn't exists, not only would the station not go right at 528 & US-1, it may not even be built period in Brevard, which is why this location was a foregone conclusion. 

It's is and always was about Port Canaveral- which I totally agree with.  Stuart, which I disagreed with,  was about a concession and shutting them up.  

[jrs2]

Well, so much for my prediction of where within the Cocoa Curve the Cocoa Station would go.  Check it out:

 

[dcluley98]

It's behind the Walmart where they already owned the land and used it for material staging during construction. 

[jrs2]

17 minutes ago, dcluley98 said:

It's behind the Walmart where they already owned the land and used it for material staging during construction. 

they also own land to the north border of The Curve as well to the east of Industry (and wherever else that is not demarcated). 

I thought they were going to try to avoid being near that Wal-Mart and Clearlake Dr.  Now, those busses are going to be accessing Clearlake from the station to go west to the Industry 528 EB exit ramp and battling Wal-Mart traffic.  Maybe they needed a longer straightaway and that was the best spot for that.  

[aent]

22 hours ago, dcluley98 said:

Agreed, which is why many of us knew it was slated for the Cocoa curve. It is slowing down there anyway, so doesn't add as much time wasted for the stop. As for Stuart, that bridge is supposedly getting fixed, so I am not so sure that was the deciding factor on Stuart. The demographics and ridership probably was a large factor. 

Even after the bridge is fixed, it will still have a much slower speed limit then the rest of the route due to the curvature, it just won't be 25mph and single-tracked slow.

[jrs2]

 

[jrs2]

https://www.gobrightline.com/press-room/2024/take-brightline-to-race-weekend-at-hard-rock-stadium-may-3-5

They're promoting sporting events coming up...

[XRZ.ME]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-04-02/florida-high-speed-rail-senior-muni-debt-rated-investment-grade?srnd=homepage-americas

Quote

Brightline ... obtained an investment-grade rating on its proposed senior municipal bonds in advance of a planned refinancing of $3.6 billion of debt.

 

[codypet]

What level was it before?  Its just one tier above junk now.

[shardoon]

30 minutes ago, codypet said:

What level was it before?  Its just one tier above junk now.

I believe it was ungraded before....so it was junk. Its an improvement. 

Edited April 3 by shardoon

[orlandocity87]

Still cool overall, especially considering it faced a lot of "boondoggle"-type comments early on, as is Brighline West as the moment. 

[jrs2]

I don't know that much about bonds and how they work, but I am very  happy that BL is a success and more and more people are incorporating BL into their travel plans.  I don't think BL is the end all be all, but it is an important piece...

[cubanbread]

Desantis just signed in a new transportation package that while having the typical red meat for the anti-"woke" dorks, did have one decent little nugget:
"The bill also will direct the Florida Rail Enterprise to include among its duties the acquisition of “future rail corridors and rights-of-way in coordination with FDOT’s planning of the state highway system.” A Senate version of the bill initially sought a 44-foot-wide rail corridor in the Interstate 4 right-of-way to extend the private Brightline passenger rail service from Orlando to Tampa."

https://www.bizjournals.com/tampabay/news/2024/04/03/desantis-oks-transportation-package.html

[jrs2]

1 hour ago, cubanbread said:

Desantis just signed in a new transportation package that while having the typical red meat for the anti-"woke" dorks, did have one decent little nugget:
"The bill also will direct the Florida Rail Enterprise to include among its duties the acquisition of “future rail corridors and rights-of-way in coordination with FDOT’s planning of the state highway system.” A Senate version of the bill initially sought a 44-foot-wide rail corridor in the Interstate 4 right-of-way to extend the private Brightline passenger rail service from Orlando to Tampa."

https://www.bizjournals.com/tampabay/news/2024/04/03/desantis-oks-transportation-package.html

https://floridapolitics.com/archives/667806-gov-desantis-signs-measure-to-hurry-transportation-projects-clamp-down-on-activism-on-roads/

Anyway, the Express lanes and widening from US 27 in, and the Poinciana Connector will now be fast tracked.  The future rail easement identifying is good...

you should make a post about the political slant in the Coffee House.

[codypet]

16 hours ago, cubanbread said:

Desantis just signed in a new transportation package that while having the typical red meat for the anti-"woke" dorks, did have one decent little nugget:
"The bill also will direct the Florida Rail Enterprise to include among its duties the acquisition of “future rail corridors and rights-of-way in coordination with FDOT’s planning of the state highway system.” A Senate version of the bill initially sought a 44-foot-wide rail corridor in the Interstate 4 right-of-way to extend the private Brightline passenger rail service from Orlando to Tampa."

https://www.bizjournals.com/tampabay/news/2024/04/03/desantis-oks-transportation-package.html

44'?  That's not wide enough.  BL had 50' and still didn't have room for the drainage swales and signals.

Edited April 4 by codypet

[jrs2]

1 hour ago, codypet said:

44'?  That's not wide enough.  BL had 50' and still didn't have room for the drainage swales and signals.

maybe that's like an urban fully cement lined corridor with sewage built in...

[codypet]

20 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

maybe that's like an urban fully cement lined corridor with sewage built in...

They'd still need R/W for stormwater facilities then.....somewhere offline.

[jrs2]

1 hour ago, codypet said:

They'd still need R/W for stormwater facilities then.....somewhere offline.

would they design that incrementally along the corridor, like retention ponds are?

[aent]

3 hours ago, codypet said:

44'?  That's not wide enough.  BL had 50' and still didn't have room for the drainage swales and signals.

I-4 Beyond the Ultimate South is being designed to transport all stormwater off to the sides of the highway with underground stormwater facilities, without any need for swales. and such, with retention ponds along the sides of the highway, at exit ramps, etc. The entire median will have jersey barriers to protect vehicle from entering into the rail ROW. Also, since this new corridor is supposed to be used exclusively for trains with no freight, they can have the tracks slightly closer together. I'm sure Brightline would be speaking up if they did not have adequate space.

[codypet]

2 hours ago, aent said:

I-4 Beyond the Ultimate South is being designed to transport all stormwater off to the sides of the highway with underground stormwater facilities, without any need for swales. and such, with retention ponds along the sides of the highway, at exit ramps, etc. The entire median will have jersey barriers to protect vehicle from entering into the rail ROW. Also, since this new corridor is supposed to be used exclusively for trains with no freight, they can have the tracks slightly closer together. I'm sure Brightline would be speaking up if they did not have adequate space.

Yea hopefully.  Aside from drainage needs, the also need room for the signal houses and the maintenance access.  I wouldn't be surprised if they opt to go single track if they're looking for that tight of R/W.

[aent]

On 4/4/2024 at 2:52 PM, codypet said:

Yea hopefully.  Aside from drainage needs, the also need room for the signal houses and the maintenance access.  I wouldn't be surprised if they opt to go single track if they're looking for that tight of R/W.

The plans have it as double track. Considering its only planned to be used by Brightline, they might have minimal signals and switches perhaps? I also imagine the equipment can be post mounted in the air if need be, and that some areas will have some extra room