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Hampton Roads Military Developments

vdogg

By vdogg
in Hampton Roads

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rusthebuss Metropolis

rusthebuss

Posted
Posted

It seems strange that the Navy and BRAC wouldn't be on the same page .. or at least mostly on the same page.

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Why its the govt. They never agree on anything. Closing Oceana is not in the Navy's best interest but its in Jeb Bush's interest is what it all boils down to. He wants to bring our money to his state.

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Viper Burg

Viper

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Posted

Why its the govt. They never agree on anything. Closing Oceana is not in the Navy's best interest but its in Jeb Bush's interest is what it all boils down to. He wants to bring our money to his state.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Excuse me but Jeb wasn't the one who suggested closing Oceana, BRAC was.

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bobliocatt City

bobliocatt

Posted
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Of course you say that when you are trying to steal out of our pockets.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What goes around, comes around. Most of Cecil's activities were shipped off to Oceana during the last BRAC. It should be well known, by now, that neither of these regions or any other military city, really cares about what's best for the nation's defense system. Its all about keeping and added jobs in each respective region. Nothing more, nothing less.

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bobliocatt City

bobliocatt

Posted
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Also, how do you guys know how bad the encroachment is here. When is the last time you've been around oceana?????? I think someone is sliding some money to the brac commission in my opinion cough****Jeb Bush***cough

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I checked both bases out on Google Earth. Kind of like staying in a Holiday Inn last night. :D

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urbanvb City

urbanvb

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I can't see how the city buying one small piece of land would help but I realize they are doing all they can to save the base. Man, this crazy. One minute things are ok and the next thing you know the city is in a frenzy trying to save the base.

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rusthebuss Metropolis

rusthebuss

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I can't see how the city buying one small piece of land would help but I realize they are doing all they can to save the base. Man, this crazy. One minute things are ok and the next thing you know the city is in a frenzy trying to save the base.

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Should have thought about that everytime they passed developments that the navy said it didn't approve. To little to late. I hope they are happy and I hope it hits there pockets hard. It makes me angry because they ignored them and now they are begging for everyones support after they pissed them off. It was a irresponsible move by the city and its going to hurt them. And the sad thing it is the biggest employer in the city and they brushed them off for years.

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urbanfan Hamlet

urbanfan

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Take this into account as well as I'm sure our officials will mention it a few times at the meeting.

They are trying to shut down our old carrier but the Navy wants either 12 cariers, meaning we get a new one, or to send of from Norfolk so as not to have all East Coast carriers in one base.

The carrier that those planes serve could end up being the carrier that goes to Jax.  No that's taking care of two birds with one stone.    This isn't a competition between Jax and VB/Norfolk but what's best for the Navy and national defense.

Did I mention those Ocean jets already train in Fl?

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Oceana only trains in fl because there is no where closer right now. As soon as they get green light from gov. they will be training at a new field in NC. So I guess we steel some more from the state of fl. By the way, Oceana will not be closing. The brac commission has no right to do what they are doing. They can only look at what is profitable to the navy. It is not profitable to reopen an airfield, compensate the private sector there to move out and build all new facilities for barracks and offices when the navy has nice brand new buildings here that are exactly what they want. These commissioners have a bug up there sleeve and nothing more. They have a personal vendetta against Oceana for some reason. When the smoke clears, the hornets will continue to be taking off and landing right here in our own back yard. In the future though, Oceana might seriosly be a contender for closure. Right now, won't happen. Not to mention that if Pres. Bush doesn't like what he sees, he will can the whole process, because he can't take part of the recomendations, its all or nothing. Point - Oceana will be here for the forseeable future. This is all smoke and mirrors.

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rusthebuss Metropolis

rusthebuss

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Oceana only trains in fl because there is no where closer right now.  As soon as they get green light from gov. they will be training at a new field in NC.  So I guess we steel some more from the state of fl.  By the way, Oceana will not be closing.  The brac commission has no right to do what they are doing.  They can only look at what is profitable to the navy.  It is not profitable to reopen an airfield, compensate the private sector there to move out and build all new facilities for barracks and offices when the navy has nice brand new buildings here that are exactly what they want.  These commissioners have a bug up there sleeve and nothing more.  They have a personal vendetta against Oceana for some reason.  When the smoke clears, the hornets will continue to be taking off and landing right here in our own back yard.  In the future though, Oceana might seriosly be a contender for closure.  Right now, won't happen.  Not to mention that if Pres. Bush doesn't like what he sees, he will can the whole process, because he can't take part of the recomendations, its all or nothing.  Point - Oceana will be here for the forseeable future.  This is all smoke and mirrors.

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I agree but they really have something against Oceana. I think it really comes down to the city of Vabeach not listening to the Navy and the Navy wants to backlash at them.

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urbanfan Hamlet

urbanfan

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Posted

I agree but they really have something against Oceana. I think it really comes down to the city of Vabeach not listening to the Navy and the Navy wants to backlash at them.

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The navy is happy with oceana, a little concerned with encroachment, but happy. This is coming from political politicians who have nothing better to do than pick a fight. But, in the end they know they will have no effect on the issue.

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PeninsulaKiddo Burg

PeninsulaKiddo

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Posted

I agree but they really have something against Oceana. I think it really comes down to the city of Vabeach not listening to the Navy and the Navy wants to backlash at them.

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I don't think that the military in of itself is a vindictive force, per se. The first priorities of the whole of BRAC is saving money and ensuring the continued defense of the nation and if they believe that relocating Oceana will save money or better-ensure the defense of our country, they will move it wherever they deem neccessary. It's not a matter of "well Virginia Beach was mean so we're going to be *****s to them". Encroachment is an issue and cuts back to the safety and defense issue... If the current location of the base is not safe then they will be forced to move it. Simple as that. The problem still remains that there is really no where for Oceana to be moved to within reason, so they'll likely have to wait a little while. Simple as that.

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rusthebuss Metropolis

rusthebuss

Posted
Posted

I don't think that the military in of itself is a vindictive force, per se.  The first priorities of the whole of BRAC is saving money and ensuring the continued defense of the nation and if they believe that relocating Oceana will save money or better-ensure the defense of our country, they will move it wherever they deem neccessary.  It's not a matter of "well Virginia Beach was mean so we're going to be *****s to them".  Encroachment is an issue and cuts back to the safety and defense issue...  If the current location of the base is not safe then they will be forced to move it.  Simple as that.  The problem still remains that there is really no where for Oceana to be moved to within reason, so they'll likely have to wait a little while.  Simple as that.

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Its not all about what is in the best interest of the navy and such. This is a political force and don't be fooled that its not. Vabeach was ignoring them and people in politics do hold grudges from them not listening. The last minute addition of Oceana was a political move. To many states have plans together to fast for me to think this wasn't in the workings way before it was announced, hince the politics involved.

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PeninsulaKiddo Burg

PeninsulaKiddo

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Its not all about what is in the best interest of the navy and such. This is a political force and don't be fooled that its not. Vabeach was ignoring them and people in politics do hold grudges from them not listening. The last minute addition of Oceana was a political move. To many states have plans together to fast for me to think this wasn't in the workings way before it was announced, hince the politics involved.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You're right, people in politics do hold grudges and while I would LOVE to state otherwise, military brass are professional politicians in their own right. Vindictive disliking of Virginia Beach aside, they wouldn't do anything that would cost them more in the long-run or jeopardize the effectiveness of the Navy's air units. I think that the notion that Georgia, Florida and Texas were plotting a political demise of Oceana is ludicrous. They don't have specific plans of action, just suggestions that happen to benefit themselves which is exactly what Hampton did after hearing about the massive losses of office space in NOVA (they proposed that with the closure of Ft. Monroe they could shift jobs there or elsewhere in the city; cities think about themselves before their economic competitors).

The last minute addition of Oceana was correcting a blunder in BRAC that shouldn't have been there. The initial BRAC list contains all bases that have any reason whatsoever to be closed immediately and the enormous problem of encroachment at Oceana is definitely apparent and was-so back when the list was orginally made and therefore should've been on the list from the get go. I don't think it should close this time, nor do I think it actually will, but for those reasons it should've been studied (the purpose of the initial BRAC list) since that list was announced months ago. The late addition may appear to be sketchy, but I highly doubt it's some political conspiracy against the "evil developers and leaders of Virginia Beach".

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hoobo Burg

hoobo

Posted
Posted

What was VB to do? Prevent development of everything under the Oceana AICUZ and tie a significant portion of its economy to Oceana? VB did the right thing by diversifying and expanding its economy. If the Navy felt threatened by encroachment it should've purchased the land through eminent domain. The issue is flight training. The Navy should purchase the land it needs to properly conduct that training. The problem is that the the Super Hornet has different requirements than the Hornet which is different than the Tomcat which is different than the Intruder. The Joint-Strike Fighter will be different. Everytime there's a new plane, there's a new AICUZ. The Navy needs enough land so that however the AICUZ changes, the ability to train properly doesn't. Oceana may have been big enough for the prop planes of WWII but it isn't big enough for the jets of today or tomorrow.

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hoobo Burg

hoobo

Posted
Posted

Oceana

Cecil

Viper's numbers are on. Was Cecil really closed because of encroachment? Or was it because the Navy was trying to consolidate its East Coast fighters onto one base and Oceana being closer to most of the Atlantic Fleet's carriers made more logistical sense? I hate to say this, but BRAC and the Navy appear to have made the wrong move.

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