Charlotte-Douglas Airport (CLT) Expansion

[LKN704]

My best friend was at the airport at 8 AM today and I was dropped off at 9:10 AM and neither of us saw people walking or jumping out of their cars. It was busy, but not more than it usually is. The TSA PreCheck checkpoint was bad - the worst I ever had seen it. Easily took 15  minutes just to get to the front of the line. 

Left my parents house in Lake Norman  at 8:28 AM, got to terminal at 9:10, and made it to the A North pier at 9:30  just as Group 1 for my flight to Dulles was being called. 

I noticed that the new Checkpoint 1 lacks the new 3D, CT scanners the TSA is implementing, which I found odd. All of the DC area airports now have them installed to my knowledge, and it was my understanding that they were being rolled out nationwide.

3 hours ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

I imagine ridership on an uptown-airport line wouldn’t be as strong as other potential routings in Charlotte. 

It wouldn't. 

Make no mistake - the Silver Line in its current form has almost nothing to do with airport connectivity. It's all about gentrifying and developing the Wilkinson Corridor. A hypothetical CLT airport rail link will never be popular unless it runs every 10 minutes at a bare minimum and actually goes where folks want to go. The current 11th Street/Blue Line transfer station is a joke.  No traveler that has a choice is going to put up with that - especially because I doubt CATS would supply timed transfers between the Blue and Silver Lines. 

In its current form, the only traffic the Silver Line to the airport is going to capture are airport employees and folks who currently rely on the Sprinter service, and travelers who want to ride it once to try it out "for a thrill."

Edited November 26, 2023 by LKN704

[49er]

Won't we gain one or two more lanes  when construction is finished?  It looks like staging for the terminal expansion and canopy is taking up the lanes closest to the terminal. 

[Temeteron]

17 minutes ago, 49er said:

Won't we gain one or two more lanes  when construction is finished?  It looks like staging for the terminal expansion and canopy is taking up the lanes closest to the terminal. 

For departures yes. But arrivals has been finished a while ago. We need more space downstairs 

[kermit]

^ Charlotte is a city that has continuously grown for nearly 100 years, yet manages to be perpetually surprised that it has continued to grow.

Edited November 27, 2023 by kermit

[Miesian Corners]

Nothing like being welcomed back to Charlotte and the United States by the filthiest airport in the world. 

[LKN704]

2 hours ago, Miesian Corners said:

Nothing like being welcomed back to Charlotte and the United States by the filthiest airport in the world.

The funny thing is this is all easily  fixable with a magic eraser and a swifter duster. Too bad the airport cares more about regularly playing Vi Lyles cringe "Welcome to America's 15th largest city" announcements (that I thought they got rid of) than making simple housekeeping changes. 

In other aviation news, the Alaska Air Group (AAG)  announced today that it would acquire Hawaiian Airlines (HA). It's a somewhat sad day for the people of Hawaii, as HA is essentially public transportation there. While the AAG said it would keep the HA brand and its services separate (much like how Lufthansa owns Swiss and Austrian Airlines, or how Air France and KLM are owned by the same parent company), there will no doubt be BOH layoffs at HA HQ in Honolulu due to acquisition-related synergies. I expect the Hawaii AG to file a lawsuit blocking the acquisition shortly and attempt to get a promise by the AAG to maintain inter-island service.

I bring this up as someone had texted me about an hour ago on whether this increases CLT's chances to regain service to Honolulu, especially now as HNL will be a oneworld hub. The answer IMO is no. AA/DL/UA largely operate their U.S. mainland-Hawaii networks at a loss - the fact that flights are expensive to operate, Hawaii is low-yielding, and profit margins are low. Right now all carriers are selling walk-up tickets for LAX-HNL tomorrow for only $120.

AA simply has better, more profitable places to use a 777 on from CLT than a route that would be low-yielding and largely filled by folks redeeming miles. 

[Miesian Corners]

 

27 minutes ago, LKN704 said:

In other aviation news, the Alaska Air Group (AAG)  announced today that it would acquire Hawaiian Airlines (HA). It's a somewhat sad day for the people of Hawaii, as HA is essentially public transportation there. While the AAG said it would keep the HA brand and its services separate (much like how Lufthansa owns Swiss and Austrian Airlines, or how Air France and KLM are owned by the same parent company), there will no doubt be BOH layoffs at HA HQ in Honolulu due to acquisition-related synergies. I expect the Hawaii AG to file a lawsuit blocking the acquisition shortly and attempt to get a promise by the AAG to maintain inter-island service.

I bring this up as someone had texted me about an hour ago on whether this increases CLT's chances to regain service to Honolulu, especially now as HNL will be a oneworld hub. The answer IMO is no. AA/DL/UA largely operate their U.S. mainland-Hawaii networks at a loss - the fact that flights are expensive to operate, Hawaii is low-yielding, and profit margins are low. Right now all carriers are selling walk-up tickets for LAX-HNL tomorrow for only $120.

AA simply has better, more profitable places to use a 777 on from CLT than a route that would be low-yielding and largely filled by folks redeeming miles. 

You're missing one important detail, though: Hawaiian operates a hub at HNL and offers connecting service to Japan, Polynesia, Micronesia, Korea, New Zealand, and Australia. From the merger website: 
• Strategic Honolulu hub: Honolulu will become a key Alaska Airlines hub, enabling greater international connectivity for West Coast travelers throughout the Asia-Pacific region with onestop service through Hawai‘i. 

I have to assume that Hawaiian's code share with jetBlue is soon to be history.

Edited December 3, 2023 by Miesian Corners
Added quote

[LKN704]

30 minutes ago, Miesian Corners said:

 

You're missing one important detail, though: Hawaiian operates a hub at HNL and offers connecting service to Japan, Polynesia, Micronesia, Korea, New Zealand, and Australia. From the merger website: 
• Strategic Honolulu hub: Honolulu will become a key Alaska Airlines hub, enabling greater international connectivity for West Coast travelers throughout the Asia-Pacific region with onestop service through Hawai‘i. 

I have to assume that Hawaiian's code share with jetBlue is soon to be history.

Hawaii is largely out of the way for connections between the U.S. East Coast and Asia/Oceania, however. I took that quote to mean that Alaska didn't have any intention of launching long haul international service with their own metal from say Seattle, and would instead route folks from the West Coast to Asia via HNL. 

That said, Alaska has looked at widebodies several times in the past, and was very close to getting an early batch of overweigh 787s at a deep discount. I wouldn't be surprised if Alaska did launch nonstops to Asia from Seattle as a result of all of this and if so, I wouldn't be surprised if Alaska finally launched Charlotte as part of a big Seattle hub push as a result. 

It's my understanding that the codeshare with jetBlue was a big reason in Hawaiian launching Boston. It would be interesting to see if that asset would be redeployed in a Oneworld market, say PHL or CLT. 

[csweet]

Interesting read on congestion relief ideas.

https://www.wfae.org/business/2023-11-30/charlottes-airport-wont-discuss-its-thanksgiving-traffic-meltdown-we-have-thoughts

I bet the airport is regretting not adding counters to the new A terminal.

[videtur quam contuor]

Steve Harrison puts the answer right in the story: Walk to the airport. Exit where possible on WIlkinson or B Graham and walk the mile or so (by his measurement.) I have walked a mile from plane to taxi rank at LGA. There is a TSA online site that shows time to complete passage at TSA checkpoints so an overhead or online site to show time to Departures on arrival road could be done. 

I am only half-joking here. If it had been me I would have gone on the march rather than cursing my fate with an unknown, but certain, long period in line. 

Tozmervo had a question which was answered about walking from terminal to/from long term parking. Same/same here.

[CLT2014]

What I observed with the Thanksgiving traffic in the arrivals area:

1.) The taxi lanes that are temporarily on the arrivals area for passenger cars are taking up WAAY too much space. Most of the taxis were just sitting empty on the first stretch of curb space. When the upper deck is finished, taxis are supposed to move up there and will add additional curb space for private passenger cars that is needed.

2.) People were not using the outer lanes to travel to the further end of the terminal. Cars were stopping / clustering to pull to the first 100 - 200 feet of curb and thus blocking cars behind them. There was 300 feet of unused curb at the end of the arrivals area. Better traffic control and directing people where to go would help. CLT has a similar set up as Dulles for example, but the Arrivals level is not covered at Dulles which allows people to see further down to see there is space. At CLT, the tunnel creates a panic with drivers who can't see further down / how long the curb is, so the try to pull over as soon as possible. 

3.) Due to construction on the east end of the terminal, the flow of walking directs people to exit baggage claim right now from the west end of the terminal. People exiting were thus concentrated on the western half of the terminal and stand on the first curb they reach once leaving the terminal. People also tend to walk towards the direction of on going traffic, thinking it will bring them closer to the car picking them up / be faster. This concentrated most passengers on the first stretch of curb and didn't spread out passengers to the eastern end where the curb was empty. 

4.) Loading cars was going VERY slow due to holiday crowds that are inexperienced travelers (might be the only time they fly all year). There were also a large numbers of families. I watched 4 cars that were in a row and took up the curb for 10 minutes as parents tried to install car seats in the vehicles picking them up. They were "active" loading, but took up space for a long time.  The Hourly Deck needs to have a free window of parking so families with large amounts of stuff load from the parking garage rather than try to use the curb and install car seats, buckle up babies and toddlers, et. at the curb. Perhaps branding it as "Free Family Loading / Parking" on one of the levels and give 30 minutes free. 

Edited December 4, 2023 by CLT2014

[csweet]

Side topic - AC CRJ-900 parked at D8 this morning, has AC ever parked at D before?

[LKN704]

6 hours ago, csweet said:

Side topic - AC CRJ-900 parked at D8 this morning, has AC ever parked at D before?

IIRC AC has always been in A. 

It's possible that pre-clearance had "failed" or the flight was randomly selected by CBP to undergo clearance again upon arrival.  While extremely rare, it can happen occasionally. It doesn't look like this was the case as the inbound aircraft arrived normally into A yesterday according to Flight Aware. 

The more likely situation is that their normal gate in A was being utilized by another carrier (their gate is common use) and the only common use gate available this morning was in D. 

[Miesian Corners]

On 12/4/2023 at 9:33 AM, csweet said:

Interesting read on congestion relief ideas.

https://www.wfae.org/business/2023-11-30/charlottes-airport-wont-discuss-its-thanksgiving-traffic-meltdown-we-have-thoughts

I bet the airport is regretting not adding counters to the new A terminal.

Steve is right: move ride shares to the hourly garage. Even SFO does this (they use the top level of the garage). Why CLT didn't include a large ground transportation area in the hourly garage is beyond stupid. 

[CLT2014]

49 minutes ago, Miesian Corners said:

Steve is right: move ride shares to the hourly garage. Even SFO does this (they use the top level of the garage). Why CLT didn't include a large ground transportation area in the hourly garage is beyond stupid. 

The Hourly Parking garage was completed in 2014 (and thus in planning before that). Uber didn't even enter the Charlotte market until late 2013 when the garage was well on its way to completion. Suburban markets in the Charlotte metro didn't have Uber access until 2015 or later (Concord, Davidson, Huntersville, et.). The airport will need to remodel the garage or they could just implement a parking stall model with numbered signs and a partnership with Uber to update their app for CLT. 

Edited December 5, 2023 by CLT2014

[CLT2014]

1 hour ago, LKN704 said:

IIRC AC has always been in A. 

It's possible that pre-clearance had "failed" or the flight was randomly selected by CBP to undergo clearance again upon arrival.  While extremely rare, it can happen occasionally. It doesn't look like this was the case as the inbound aircraft arrived normally into A yesterday according to Flight Aware. 

The more likely situation is that their normal gate in A was being utilized by another carrier (their gate is common use) and the only common use gate available this morning was in D. 

Yep, Delta Connection had a CRJ-900 go mechanical at gate A7 and Delta uses all their gates for their morning departure bank, so they needed an extra gate compared to normal to accommodate their normal schedule + the extra CRJ-900 that was stuck on A7 and didn't leave for Atlanta until this morning (looks like it was ferried back for repairs). The airport likely asked Air Canada to move over to D so Delta could use additional gates on A. 

Edited December 5, 2023 by CLT2014

[Miesian Corners]

16 minutes ago, CLT2014 said:

The Hourly Parking garage was completed in 2014 (and thus in planning before that). Uber didn't even enter the Charlotte market until late 2013 when the garage was well on its way to completion. Suburban markets in the Charlotte metro didn't have Uber access until 2015 or later (Concord, Davidson, Huntersville, et.). The airport will need to remodel the garage or they could just implement a parking stall model with numbered signs and a partnership with Uber to update their app for CLT. 

But ground transporation has existed since the advent of the airplane. MSP has had such an area since 2004. SFO added striping to the parking garage for rideshare in 2015. This isn't rocket science.

Edited December 5, 2023 by Miesian Corners
.

[CLT2014]

15 hours ago, Miesian Corners said:

But ground transporation has existed since the advent of the airplane. MSP has had such an area since 2004. SFO added striping to the parking garage for rideshare in 2015. This isn't rocket science.

Yep, fair enough. At the very least during peak holiday periods they could just put some basic signage up in the hourly deck like a Target drive up with space numbers for Uber drivers. Have one of the exit lanes from the deck be for Uber only and have a staff member wave them through and you don't even need to upgrade the parking lot QR code system. They wouldn't need to even making any structural changes to the garage or re-stripe it. 

During non-peak periods, the curbside works fine for Uber and is probably faster / preferred by customers versus a longer walk, elevator ride to a parking garage floor, and exit from the Hourly deck. They could just flex which location ride-pick up is at based on projected crowds. 

Edited December 6, 2023 by CLT2014

[49er]

I'm guessing the airport doesn't want to give up parking revenue or they would have already pursued something like this. Moving rideshare to the deck would make even better use of  the pedestrian tunnels and bridges that are being installed. 

[csweet]

17 hours ago, CLT2014 said:

Yep, Delta Connection had a CRJ-900 go mechanical at gate A7 and Delta uses all their gates for their morning departure bank, so they needed an extra gate compared to normal to accommodate their normal schedule + the extra CRJ-900 that was stuck on A7 and didn't leave for Atlanta until this morning (looks like it was ferried back for repairs). The airport likely asked Air Canada to move over to D so Delta could use additional gates on A. 

Got it, thank you both for your replies on this!

[BarrenLucidity]

10 hours ago, 49er said:

I'm guessing the airport doesn't want to give up parking revenue or they would have already pursued something like this. Moving rideshare to the deck would make even better use of  the pedestrian tunnels and bridges that are being installed. 

Airport could take 50% of the valet area in the deck and charge Uber a fee per pickup. Everybody wins.

Edited December 7, 2023 by BarrenLucidity

[49er]

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/business/article282794798.html

 

Well, the airport is making some changes to address the recent traffic issues. Maybe someone there reads UP! 

[CLT2014]

59 minutes ago, 49er said:

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/business/article282794798.html

Well, the airport is making some changes to address the recent traffic issues. Maybe someone there reads UP! 

I forgot something else from Thanksgiving... why are the crosswalks across the private vehicle lanes still open from the Hourly Deck to the terminal now that they have built a tunnel that goes under the traffic lanes? The traffic directors stopping cars so people could cross was slowing things down a lot and all of those pedestrians should have been directed to the new underground tunnel... the whole point of building that was to stop people crossing up top. 

[Temeteron]

Apparently there was an accident!

[rancenc]

Recent episode from PBS's "Carolina Impact" on WTVI.