Va. Beach Towncenter project

[urbanvb]

I think we don't have a choice and maybe with the urbanization we can attract fortune 500 companies to the area, making it presentable to them and show what we have to offer, but at the same sense they could look and ask why 2 downtowns in the area and think that its stupid.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well VB and Norfolk are seperate cities and VB's attempt at at DT if you will is really of that for an urban core for the city.

[rusthebuss]

just because a suburbs has the title of a city doesn't mean its an "city". I really think two downtowns are really stupid especially the fact the stupid city council doesn't want to connect with mass transit between dt norfolk. Just another way they will choke the area.

[vdogg]

Well VB and Norfolk are seperate cities and VB's attempt at at DT if you will is really of that for an urban core for the city.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Agreed. Virginia Beach has a right to create an urban core for their city to benefit its citizens. Far too often people view such activity as an attack on Norfolk and its really not. Its simply Va. Beach doing whats right for its taxpayers. If this city fails to create an urban core, i fear the type of development that will result.

[rusthebuss]

Agreed. Virginia Beach has a right to create an urban core for their city to benefit its citizens. Far too often people view such activity as an attack on Norfolk and its really not. Its simply Va. Beach doing whats right for its taxpayers. Even this city fails to create an urban core, i fear the type of development that will result.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't view it as an attack on norfolk but stupidity because we need a real urban core and this is what this area lacks. We will never have a true "Downtown". Its sad but true due to 7 cities fighting for the financial core of the area.

[urbanvb]

I don't view it as an attack on norfolk but stupidity because we need a real urban core and this is what this area lacks. We will never have a true "Downtown". Its sad but true due to 7 cities fighting for the financial core of the area.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I doubt VB is trying to build another Norfolk. It has been in the works since the early 80's to create an urban core in a city that is all sprawl - which is a great idea imo. I would think though that most folks agree that Norfolk is the financial center of the area.

[vdogg]

Mods note: All comments on BRT/LRT have been moved to the transportation thread Hampton Roads Transportation

[urbanfan]

I think we don't have a choice and maybe with the urbanization we can attract fortune 500 companies to the area, making it presentable to them and show what we have to offer, but at the same sense they could look and ask why 2 downtowns in the area and think that its stupid.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't think that only two downtowns are a major hinerance. Look at Miami. They have their downtown, Fort lauderdale has a downtown and west Palm Beach have their own downtown. Yet they are all considered part of the Miami MSA. It's all in how you market the area. If we worked as an area two downtowns is not going to be a problem. However, if we work seperate and against each other than that will be the problem.

[rusthebuss]

I don't think that only two downtowns are a major hinerance.

[PeninsulaKiddo]

just because a suburbs has the title of a city doesn't mean its an "city". I really think two downtowns are really stupid especially the fact the stupid city council doesn't want to connect with mass transit between dt norfolk. Just another way they will choke the area.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't see it as an issue b/c VB isn't going after the major financial institutions. It has a lot of office space, yes, but not anything close to Norfolk's DT. Also, with two hotels, huge amounts of retail, and two residential buildings going up it isn't really a commerce-centered development. It isn't really a threat at all IMO to DT Norfolk and proves to be no hinderance at all to DT Norfolk's plans. If anything it's a boost to them because with new offices going up they now have VB's new residential areas to house the employees.

There are many "twin cities", but most of them have a major, primary city. Dallas-Fort Worth. Minneapolis-St. Paul. New York-Newark (though a huge scale comparison). In all of those instances there is one much larger city with all the financial and banking and big business. Norfolk is and will remain our area's version of that.

Plus... if a city has over 430,000 residents I think it's entitled to some form of downtown, right?

[urbanvb]

Plus... if a city has over 430,000 residents I think it's entitled to some form of downtown, right?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

right!!

[rusthebuss]

right!!

[PeninsulaKiddo]

Most suburbs do have more of a population than the actual city especially one with alot of land.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

True... but VB is fresh outta land now... so... build up!

[vdogg]

True... but VB is fresh outta land now... so... build up!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Agreed. We either gotta start building up or start reclaiming ocean Tokyo style but further expansion outward is no longer an option.

[PeninsulaKiddo]

Agreed. We either gotta start building up or start reclaiming ocean Tokyo style but further expansion outward is no long an option.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hahahaha. If we're not allowed to look for oil well offshore then I doubt that reclaiming land would be up the General Assembly's alley. Though that would be interesting lol. But at some point or another all suburbs start building up and "come into their own". NOVA is extremely dense and urban for a collection of small cities and dense counties. hmm... Rosslyn Tower comes to mind haha.

[urbanvb]

Hahahaha.  If we're not allowed to look for oil well offshore then I doubt that reclaiming land would be up the General Assembly's alley.  Though that would be interesting lol.  But at some point or another all suburbs start building up and "come into their own".  NOVA is extremely dense and urban for a collection of small cities and dense counties.  hmm... Rosslyn Tower comes to mind haha.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nova is quite dense but look at the traffic nightmare.. yikes!!

[rusthebuss]

True... but VB is fresh outta land now... so... build up!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

you haven't run out of land there is tons of farm land in blackwater and pungo. The navy shut that down but you do have lots of land

[rusthebuss]

Hahahaha.  If we're not allowed to look for oil well offshore then I doubt that reclaiming land would be up the General Assembly's alley.  Though that would be interesting lol.  But at some point or another all suburbs start building up and "come into their own".  NOVA is extremely dense and urban for a collection of small cities and dense counties.  hmm... Rosslyn Tower comes to mind haha.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is another monster in itself. That is happening because DC will not allow anything to go up so they moved out to the burbs. That is why!!!!

[PeninsulaKiddo]

That is another monster in itself. That is happening because DC will not allow anything to go up so they moved out to the burbs. That is why!!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I can see a certain correlation there... Still, DC is very urban as is Baltimore, but the areas around them are becoming urban as well. It's denser in their "far flung suburbs" than a few blocks outside of DT Norfolk.

[rusthebuss]

We are a unique metro area. There really is nothing like us in this country.

[PeninsulaKiddo]

you haven't run out of land there is tons of farm land in blackwater and pungo. The navy shut that down but you do have lots of land

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You mean below the green line? I hope I'm not the only conservationist who is also an urban afficionado? I think that urban development is a great thing and creates great communities, but you seem to be advocating suburban sprawl in no-less an area that's protected by federal laws mandating that they remain pristine and clear from development. I'd like to keep building up in VB and keep that area open and clear. Though few would believe it, farms in VB actually make a lot of money for the city as well and give it an unique character:) I hope they stick around a few more decades.

[lammius]

You mean below the green line?  I hope I'm not the only conservationist who is also an urban afficionado?  I think that urban development is a great thing and creates great communities, but you seem to be advocating suburban sprawl in no-less an area that's protected by federal laws mandating that they remain pristine and clear from development.  I'd like to keep building up in VB and keep that area open and clear.  Though few would believe it, farms in VB actually make a lot of money for the city as well and give it an unique character:)  I hope they stick around a few more decades.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm with you, PK. Focus in and build up. It would be nice if there were some transit lines development could be focused around.

[metalman]

I agree as well! I went to Munden's Point on Saturday. It was the first time I've been there. And the drive down Princess Anne Road was beautiful! I love seeing that green open space, farmland, "the county", in the same city that is developing a promising downtown and oceanfront. Munden's Point park is awesome-Big lots to reserve for a barbeque, a huge rive that connects to the ocean, intercoastal waterway, and makes it way to the Elizabeth river...of course MILES AWAY.

For those of you that don't know, it is on Princess Anne Road only a couple miles (if that) before the North Carolina boarder. I've read that some farms in Va. Beach are some of the biggest in the state and the land where the Ives farm is, which is a winery, was given to that family from the Queen of England when we were a colony. (I'd have to research this to completely confirm). I think the city should strongly adhere to the green line and build in the current suburbs. But the problem is saw down there is that homeowners down there are sells there land not to new homeowners, but developers.

[urbanvb]

I am thinking it is going to be increasingly difficult to hold on to large pieces of land either above or below the green line. But I agree southern VB is a wonderful place. It is amazing how you can drive a few miles and then be on a two lane road seemingly in the middle of nowhere lol. That is so cool though. I do hope it stays that way or mostly like that at any rate.

[rusthebuss]

I am thinking it is going to be increasingly difficult to hold on to large pieces of land either above or below the green line. But I agree southern VB is a wonderful place. It is amazing how you can drive a few miles and then be on a two lane road seemingly in the middle of nowhere lol. That is so cool though. I do hope it stays that way or mostly like that at any rate.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They won't, my dad lives on the Chesapeake side right next to the Va Beach line and farm land is disappearing and farmers are selling their land because of the value it brings. My dad built his house on old farm land. They are building a Home Depot at the Hillcrest Parkway off of 168 bypass. Its moving its way down there and its inevitable. It might not be condense but there will be houses on larger lots there.

[Chesapeake Pirate]

Anyone hearing how the condo reservations are going at the Town Center? I see the advertisement pretty regularly now directing folks to the web site to indicate interest.

Chesapeake Pirate