Fourth Ward Square Condominiums

[dubone]

Frankly, the Circle K has some of the most expensive gas in the city, yet their pumps are slow, are out of order half the time, and are dirty. I've gone there when it rained or snowed to find that my shoes are covered in [toxic] gas (makes you think twice about propping your feet on your coffee table). The site plan is a horrendous use of space for selling volumes of gas or anything else. Why does their dumpster require more urban space than their gas pumps (their cash cow)?

My wife will not get gas their alone after getting comments like 'aw baby, you sure are a pretty little thang' (imagine a slithering tongue and try not to let your spine tingle with disgust). Now tell me that the value of those 40s are worth more than 50% of the population not feeling comfy with buying 3$/g gas? An exaggeration, but given the bad experiences I myself have had there, most of the population SHOULD be boycotting them at this point.

If I were king of the world, but were somehow required by the queen of the world to keep the site a gas station, here is what I would do: build an attractive store front abutting the corner of 10th and Graham for the convenience store, and then spread out the pumps behind in an L behind the building. Better traffic movement, better urban design, and some distance between the customer and the panhandlers shouting from the sidewalk because they've been banned from the premises.

[atlrvr]

The Citadin has once again applied for a Site Plan Amendment....the change would allow an extra 10,000 sq. ft. of commercial space and about 125 more units....there doesn't appear to be a request to raise the height, so possibly they are now considering smaller units.

Regardless, it appears the project isn't dead, but I'm not expecting much in the short term. Like The Park, they have the advantage of owning the parcel on their side, so their is no rush to get this project started from a land acquisition standpoint.

[Justadude]

Smaller units might be a good change to this project. I think it'll attract less of a luxury element considering the proposals of the past 6 months, and its location seems fit for a younger and more middle-range market.

[dubone]

This siteplan change has me scratching my head. It has very little in common with the buildings that have been rendered and modeled and sold for the last year and a half. In fact, the phase I building that I perceived to be nearing construction does not appear to be compatable with the new site plan.

I'm not opposed to it, depending on what we ultimately see, and it may well be more practical considering the smaller unit size, and the greater use of ground space. I am just confused as to how they can alter the plan in such a significant way after all that has already been taken place.

http://www.charmeck.org/Departments/Planni...ns/2007-111.htm

Am I wrong? Could the planned building fit on this siteplan somehow?

[rockhilljames]

Weird. Did you see how they are talking about combining the tower portion and one of the smaller buildings together? The front section would have a max height of 140' and the back section a max height of 320'.

That would seem to be quite different.

[Justadude]

This may or may not be related, but about a year ago I was in the Citadin sales office when one of the salespeople was taking the model apart. She was flipping the sections around, reversing them, putting them in different places. She mentioned something about the site plan still not being finalized, and how they were considering having the shorter buildings oriented in almost the reverse as what had been shown in the rendering. I thought it was odd at the time, but I didn't expect anything to come of it.

[Charlotte_native]

I hope no one is holding their breath for this project. They are currently painting the exterior of the existing buildings on-site -- hardly something you do if you plan on tearing them down any time soon...

[uptownliving]

The Arbors Apartments is the one getting a new reddish paint job. They are next door to Fourth Ward Square which is where the Citadin is planned. The two complexes do look very similar. Last time I checked Citadin still has an active rezoning request for the property.

[Charlotte_native]

The Arbors Apartments is the one getting a new reddish paint job. They are next door to Fourth Ward Square which is where the Citadin is planned. The two complexes do look very similar. Last time I checked Citadin still has an active rezoning request for the property.

[uptownJim]

Smaller units might be a good change to this project. I think it'll attract less of a luxury element considering the proposals of the past 6 months, and its location seems fit for a younger and more middle-range market.

[dubone]

That is great news. I enjoy seeing the density and number of units there, regardless of whether they build the 2 towers as previously planned. A midrise project seems much more practical than their original plan.

Thank you for sharing the scoop on it all. It sounds like some exciting announcements are imminent.

[turbocraig]

Next week's CBJ has an update on Citadin. They've filed for an increase in units (to 550) and increased the commercial space from 20K sq ft to 30K sq ft. It also states that a 140ft tall parking garage would be in the center and then there's a 320ft tall building that stretches from Smith St to N. Graham. Originally there were going to be 2 towers in the back along Smith, but this makes it sound like it's now a single tower running east-west. Maybe someone here that's adept at looking up petitions online can find the site plans.

[Justadude]

These changes sound pretty positive. The twin-towers idea was nice eye candy, but in retrospect seems a little impractical for that space. A shorter, denser project will be more attractive and serve the area better. The "creep" up Graham is starting to feel tangible with Citadin and Garrison coming along.

[geekUSA1981]

A shorter, denser project will be more attractive and serve the area better.

[Guest]

I am confused about this project. How can they call it an expanision of condos, all the phases were to be like 1000 condos. This is just increasing the number from the first phase.

[Miesian Corners]

I still think the city should take enough interest in that strip of Graham to make some significant steps toward calming traffic. I know Graham carries a different load of traffic than most other Uptown streets, but the constant rush and noise of traffic is killing the pedestrian aspect of the 9th/10th St. area. I say widen the sidewalks, add at least one (preferably two) stoplights, and consider landscaping similar to that in front of the Corner Pub's building.

[Charlotte_native]

I think Graham should get the East Blvd treatment. Take it down to two traffic lanes with a center turn lane.

[Andyc545]

Graham is too much inner city, vs. E. Blvd which runs parallel to the city, south enough that is not in innercity or near major event centers, like said. However, I do love what they had done with E. Blvd. Adds a lot of class and character to the area.

[Miesian Corners]

East Blvd moves more traffic in its new design than the old four lanes did. And there's no reason 18-wheelers should be using an inner city street with freeways encircling uptown.

[atlrvr]

Graham St is is US Hwy 29 within Uptown which means is has to to conform to certain standards.....it also means it has to be able to accomodated truck traffic. In order to do any narrowing of the road, US 29 would have to be rerouted, and I'm not sure that has much chance of getting approved.

[dubone]

There is talk that the city will put a traffic signal on 8th to help pedestrians cross Graham between 6th and 10th. That will put a light on Graham every 2 blocks in this section. If the sidewalks are widened with planting strips as each block gets redeveloped, it will help to make that street feel more pedestrian friendly. I agree that the east boulevard treatment might actually help everyone, but also that it probably wouldn't be approved. Trucks and busses would have a wider lane, as right now, the lanes are all very very skinny. Busses pretty much have to drive about a foot into the other lane right now because of the storm drains in the outside lanes. Bikes and pedestrians pretty much feel like they should say their prayers just in case.

There is pretty close to enough space on the eastern side of the street to add a slightly wider sidewalk and a planting strip, but they'd need to take away slightly from some surface lots and from the landscaping of Springfield. But I think it would be worthwhile for the city to purchase that right of way and do it. With this section of Graham street densifying, it makes a lot of sense to improve the design for the pedestrians.

Frankly, there is no reason 29 could not simply move to Brookshire and 77. It might mean a little bit more money for maintaining those freeways. I doubt Graham meets the standards anyway, considering how skinny the lanes are.

[Justadude]

If they put a light at 8th and Graham, it might make sense to extend the W. 8th traffic circle and reconnect it to Graham to make a proper 4-way intersection. That would increase connectivity slightly, making W. 8th somewhat busier but providing extra options to disperse traffic through 4th Ward.

[Uncle Dennis]

Dubone:

The new building plan is going to be more a la Fifth & Poplar in style; except it will be larger, have more amenities, and have just under 500 units in the final condo project.

JLT Partners & Citadin have signed up with a *very* large and prominent Real Estate investment trust, and instead of fouor phases, they are going to build it in one, single enormouse phase.

This will serve to:

A) preserve the project

B) relieve the initial homeowners from living in a perpetual construction site for 5+ years

C) redevelop the entire block that they own in one fell swoop

D) satisfy their newly soon-to-be-announced investment partner

The various stakeholders, institutional folk and developers I know who have all heard of these last changes highly endorse them -- and know that this will be the tipping point in getting this project going.

BE CERTAIN to keep your eye out soon for press releases, articles, etc., that describe this new arrangement in detail.

[Raintree21]

I just hope they will make some sort of attempt at synchronizing all of those lights so it's not too much stop and go traffic, getting up to speed after one light just to get stopped by another.

[UrbanCharlotte]

So what is the new construction timeline for the citadin?