Fourth Ward Square Condominiums

[queensguy06]

I wonder if this is signs of great demand for this project, or if Citadin is trying to make people believe that.

[dubone]

I believe the building permit is a sign of the demand, and now their ability/willingness to build.

The rezoning is probably just to give them flexibility.

Remember, only dev geeks like us notice and care about rezoning petitions. I highly doubt they are using it as a ploy.

[UrbanCharlotte]

Nothin in a while on the Citadin. They were supposed to demolish the old buildings soon, right?

[dubone]

The rezoning petition won't be done for a few more months, so that would be the current delay. The public hearing isn't until mid-January.

[UrbanCharlotte]

Wasnt the demolition permit issued?

[dubone]

I see now what you mean. Good question. Does anyone know if all of the current residents have left those buildings? Maybe some of the leases end this month or something.

[Charlotte_native]

Perhaps they want the security of the rezoning before tearing down what they have. Not unreasonable if so!

[Charlotte_native]

Good source informed me today that the apartments where the Citiden is to be built will begin demolition either next month or the next. They are doing so building by building and have given 30 day notices already to the residents of the 1st building to go.

[dubone]

Thanks for the update, C_N. I think this is consistent with everything else we have heard, but it is great to have confirmation. I am assuming this is still just the southernmost building at 8th at Graham for phase one.

I really like this project for North Graham, which is a corridor for many people entering downtown. North Graham, north of 7th is quite unattractive, with 80's style low-quality multifamily housing. Having that replaced with a solid 10-12 story building with street retail will really upgrade that area. Denser buildings along Graham will really complement the Victorian neighborhood a block away far more than the unattractive cheap-looking residential-only apartments there now.

[uptownliving]

The rerezoning for the Citadin was approved tonight by City Council. The max height for the first building is now set at 140 ft.

[A2]

The rerezoning for the Citadin was approved tonight by City Council. The max height for the first building is now set at 140 ft.

[uptownliving]

This rerezoning covers the entire block bounded by Graham, 8th, 9th, and Smith.

The only change was to increase the building height along Graham from 120 ft to 140 ft. The 2 towers in back along Smith St remain the same at 320 ft. and were already approved in the previous rezoning.

[A2]

This rerezoning covers the entire block bounded by Graham, 8th, 9th, and Smith.

The only change was to increase the building height along Graham from 120 ft to 140 ft. The 2 towers in back along Smith St remain the same at 320 ft. and were already approved in the previous rezoning.

[Justadude]

This will indeed be a staggered development. If you take a look at the model in the sales center on N. Graham St. (visible from the sidewalk), you can see that only the first phase is colored in and detailed. The rest of the model is just a colorless massing rendering.

[krazeeboi]

This will indeed be a staggered development. If you take a look at the model in the sales center on N. Graham St. (visible from the sidewalk), you can see that only the first phase is colored in and detailed. The rest of the model is just a colorless massing rendering.

[Justadude]

Even within that rendering I think (based on a long-ago sales pitch) that only one side of that lower level will be built initially. The project is going up in four phases: two sections of the lower level, then the two towers. It could be quite a while before the whole thing is completed... if it ever is.

[Mobuchu]

Yeah, I think you missed about 10 pages of this thread Jd But yeah, 8th and Grahm building should be the first to go up.

[Justadude]

^ Haha, sorry about that. Should've gone back and read the other pages before replying.

But... now that I've keyed in on previous discussion I do have one thing to bring up: does anyone feel that there may be redeeming qualities to these 80s apartment buildings? I don't really know what the prices are like in 4th Ward Square, or exactly what the population is like, but I've always been under the impression that they're a relatively low-cost option for young uptown workers. Same with Springfield Square; I've known a couple of people there who are students or non-professionals who want the access to uptown amenities.

These populations have contributed an awful lot to the "vibe" in 4th Ward, especially once you get away from the historic homes on Poplar. I'm a little worried that the gung-ho attitude toward demolishing the older complexes and replacing them with condo towers might create a new Southpark in 4th Ward: an area basically inaccessible to anyone other than an older, wealthier, professional demographic. This would certainly make the neighborhood prettier and more affluent, but it would also change the character of the place fundamentally.

Anyone else thinking about this, or are the benefits of condo towers just that overwhelming?

[dubone]

No. I thoroughly detest those old wooden 80s projects on Graham. . (No equivocation on this one for me )

I dislike Springfield, but have resigned to believing it is permanent (outside of tragic fires) due to the condominium ownership.

However, the two apartment projects on Graham can't be torn down fast enough in my view. I think if they are kept, they will keep 4th Ward from really growing into the higher quality mixed use projects that the 21st Century has to offer. I would like Graham St to be a gateway with Euro/DC style density of 6-8 story buildings filling up the blocks, with street retail and wide sidewalks. Instead, you have single-use projects, that face internally into a courtyard, with carports, and no interaction with the street/sidewalk which is about as narrow as it gets for a highly traveled corridor. That is not to mention their mediocre architecture, and highly flammable materials.

[UrbanCharlotte]

Have they torn down the apartments. I didn't pay much attention while driving down graham, but I didn't notice anything, and it's been a while since I've heard anything, so i'm thinking this whole project being completed is unlikely.

[turbocraig]

^No, nothing's happened yet. And I heard last week that they've nixed the 25-story towers in back. I can't be sure if that's 100% accurate though.

[dubone]

That seems practical. I do hope they can still pull the 10 story buildings off. Right now, I think it is a catch 22. North Graham does not attract people to invest, but they can't rebuild the environment because North Graham does not attract people to invest.

It is an ugly corridor, where pedestrians feel like they'll be run over. The 80s era apartments and condos along there were the epitome of cheap and unattractive, reflecting an era when uptown was a low-rent zone. Those buildings have outlived their potential, and it is time for them to be replaced by 8-12 story midrises, set back far enough to make the sidewalk feel less dangerous. It is also time for the buildings to create street life. Right now, the main buildings that create pedestrian street life are the Circle K and the convenience store at 9th and Graham. Those stores bring the vagrants in as places they can buy their booze with food stamps.

With Silos, 626 and now Garrison, there is a chance that 10th and Graham can be renewed. I wish that the Circle K could pay for security guard, though, to enforce the laws against panhandling at night, or keep the people banned from the premises from still panhandling from the sidewalks. I think that that brings down the perceptions of Graham as a liveable area, and further reduces the demand for decent projects like Citadin.

I do think they'll pull it off, but I bet it will be like The Park, where it would have failed had it not been for the commitment of a local developer.

[uptownliving]

The building permit application for this is still open and active, however not much has happened with it recently. Not sure what the holdup is.

[rockhilljames]

The neighborhood has petitioned the Circle K to stop selling 40's and to up it's appearance. Hopefully they can convince the owners there's more money to be made from speciality coffees.

[Justadude]

I still think the city should take enough interest in that strip of Graham to make some significant steps toward calming traffic. I know Graham carries a different load of traffic than most other Uptown streets, but the constant rush and noise of traffic is killing the pedestrian aspect of the 9th/10th St. area. I say widen the sidewalks, add at least one (preferably two) stoplights, and consider landscaping similar to that in front of the Corner Pub's building.