Norfolk History

[Cadeho]

Ugly doesn't change. The stuff from the 50s and 60s lack style and character that previous styles had. The 70s is horrendous too and the 80s stuff isn't bad but need some renovation... but of course I am using what I know in my city. Maybe Norfolk has some knock-out examples from the 50s and 60s.

Edited February 24, 2006 by Cadeho

[Padman]

Well a lot of people are in the mindset that anything built in the 50's-60's is garabage and should be torn down. A lot of what was torn down in the 50's and 60's was 50 or so years old then though and people probably thought the same thing... And it was not the mindset of just Norfolk (although Norfolk took it to extremes that many other cities did not).

That is why, although I don't love the Kirn library, I think it is a very interesting work of architecture. It is exactly the way it was and it is possible to see why people moved architecture in that direction: the building is open, light, has clean lines and is uncluttered. It is one of the few examples of pure 50's, right down to the door handles (they are oval shaped).

Maybe in 50 years from now, when (more efficient) glass boxes make a comeback, they will wonder why we torn down so much of our 50's and 60's buildings.

I couldn't agree with you more. If a building EVER was respected, admired or loved, there is a chance that it will be again. Style is largely about taste, and much less about substance. If a building can safely and comfortable house or contain, then it is functional.

Edited February 24, 2006 by Padman

[source]

Kinda off.. but I though I would share my collection of Monticello Hotel Stuff with you all.

http://www.f33.com/monticellohotel/

I have a few new things that I have yet to add to it.

[okinawatyphoon]

Kinda off.. but I though I would share my collection of Monticello Hotel Stuff with you all.

http://www.f33.com/monticellohotel/

I have a few new things that I have yet to add to it.

Thanks for sharing that. It is a shame it was replaced with an ugly building.

[skylinefan]

Really nice collection of memorabilia and photos from the Monticello Hotel. I was there when the building was imploded to make way for the ugly federal building that stands there now.

[erdogs]

Kinda off.. but I though I would share my collection of Monticello Hotel Stuff with you all.

http://www.f33.com/monticellohotel/

I have a few new things that I have yet to add to it.

I love sruff like that. Thanks!

[urbanvb]

Great sruff!

[lammius]

It's a shame they don't build sruff like that anymore!

[rusthebuss]

It's a shame they don't build sruff like that anymore!

Good one dude!

[Chesapeake Pirate]

I have only lived in Norfolk for two years, and I am not very familar with it's history. From my brief participation here, I have learned a lot, including hearing about old buildings and places that may no longer exist. I think most everyone here values Norfolk history and wants to preserve as much of that as possible.

An idea I had was to establish a thread which could serve as a place to identify the oldest/most historical ongoing restaurants and retail stores in Norfolk, and to help make sure folks like me even know they exist so that we can enjoy them and help support them.

I should clarify that I have lived in Tidewater since 1975, but my homes were first in Virginia Beach and then Chesapeake. Until about five years ago, I didn't appreciate all Norfolk had to offer.

The only places that come immediately to mind for me are Doumar's, and Bob's Gun Shop. Surely there are many others that help comprise the fabric of Norfolk living. I think it would be great to have them identified here where we share interest and excitement about the future.

[vdogg]

I have only lived in Norfolk for two years, and I am not very familar with it's history. From my brief participation here, I have learned a lot, including hearing about old buildings and places that may no longer exist. I think most everyone here values Norfolk history and wants to preserve as much of that as possible.

An idea I had was to establish a thread which could serve as a place to identify the oldest/most historical ongoing restaurants and retail stores in Norfolk, and to help make sure folks like me even know they exist so that we can enjoy them and help support them.

I should clarify that I have lived in Tidewater since 1975, but my homes were first in Virginia Beach and then Chesapeake. Until about five years ago, I didn't appreciate all Norfolk had to offer.

The only places that come immediately to mind for me are Doumar's, and Bob's Gun Shop. Surely there are many others that help comprise the fabric of Norfolk living. I think it would be great to have them identified here where we share interest and excitement about the future.

Good topic Pirate but we already have a history thread. It's pinned to the top of the page. I'm going to merge it with this one.

[tombarnes]

Very interesting collection. Thanks for sharing it with us.

[Chesapeake Pirate]

Good topic Pirate but we already have a history thread. It's pinned to the top of the page. I'm going to merge it with this one.

Thanks for the "housekeeping" and sorry for the extra work for you.

I hope we can eventually say we know the five oldest restaurants in Norfolk soon, for example.

[urbanvb]

Doumars has been around a very long time. They have some really neat vintage photos on their website.

[rusthebuss]

Doumars has been around a very long time. They have some really neat vintage photos on their website.

They invented the waffle ice cream cone!

[Sky06]

Check out this site.

http://www.npl.lib.va.us/sgm/oldlobby/archives/lobby.html

[tombarnes]

The John T. West School

It seems a shame that the city is uninterested in allowing a developer to proceed with plans for the renovation of the John T. West School. Norfolk has lost enough of its history to the wrecker's ball. Enough is enough! Allow the man to go forward with his plan. If it works, it works. If it can't work, then perhaps it must be lost, but the city's attitude seems hasty and inflexible.

The Virginian Pilot

Edited August 4, 2006 by tombarnes

[tombarnes]

Norfolk Trashes More of its History

The question about whether or not to renovate the John T. West School was settled today by an excavator and other demolition equipment. I realize that the school sat empty for many years before any plans were brought forward to save it. Still, a plan was brought forward, but the city would not deign to listen. Once historic buildings are gone, they are gone forever. Norfolk has already lost too many of its historic structures to cavalierly discard the few remaining ones. Was it an outstanding building? No. Was it worth saving? It very likely was. Unfortunately, the question is moot now.

The Virginian Pilot

Edited August 8, 2006 by tombarnes

[skylinefan]

Norfolk Trashes More of its History

The question about whether or not to renovate the John T. West School was settled today by an excavator and other demolition equipment. I realize that the school sat empty for many yeras before any plans were brought forward to save it. Still, a plan was brought forward, but the city would not deign to listen. Once historic buildings are gone, they are gone forever. Norfolk has already lost too much of its historic structures to cavalierly discard the few remaining ones. Was it an outstanding building? No. Was it worth saving? It very likely was. Unfortunately, the question is moot now.

The Virginian Pilot

Really sad, but the one woman who was glad that it was torn down made a very good point where were the developers over the last 26 years? It should have been addressed many years ago before the structure got into such a deplorable state.

[Chesapeake Pirate]

Really sad, but the one woman who was glad that it was torn down made a very good point where were the developers over the last 26 years? It should have been addressed many years ago before the structure got into such a deplorable state.

Exactly, all this knashing of teeth about action when those who did nothing for years now start to moan. If it was so wonderful and special, somebody would have done something with it long before August 2006.

This has been nothing but a blight on the neighborhood, and I hope the action taken will be a catalyst for improvement.

[craigjjs]

I lived in Norfolk until 1985; grew up in Merrimack Park until my parents scraped together $11,000 to buy a Cape Cod near Wards Corner in 1965 (Ruthven Road, off West Little Creek Road). I have been in the NYC area since. I have been visiting the area for last year due to family problems and I am considering a return.

I would be very interested in learning more about how the area developped over the last 30 or so years. The Wards Corner area (not to mention Merrimack Park (Landing)) has gone downhill and I am told that everyone has moved to VB, Chesapeake and (heaven forbid) Suffolk. There was certainly an exodus going on toward the end of my tenure in the 80's (my alma mater, Norfolk Catholic High, is now senior housing). I have seen some of the impressive downtown development and the Ocean View development.

How can I find out, in somewhat general terms, what has been happening and what the indications are for the future. I have seen the Wards Corner development plan (which now seems doomed by lack of funding) and many threads on this forum. I am looking for more of an overview. Can anyone point me to a source or provide some general information.

Thanks to all and thanks for a great website.

Craigjjs

[vdogg]

Welcome to the forum Craig. The best overview we have here now is the Projects and Construction thread.

As for a complete historical overview that does not currently exists but i'm sure one of our long time residents can help fill you in.

[Glassoul]

Well basically, since the mid-80's several things happened. First, as you point out, people moved out of Norfolk due to crime, low school standards, and better housing in Virginia Beach (this had been happening since the mid-70's actually). Then when Virginia Beach started to get crowded, people from Norfolk and Portsmouth moved to Chesapeake, and the population there boomed. Now Northern Chesapeake is crowded with suburbs and so people are moving to Northern Suffolk. In the very early-90's I-264 was essentially extended west (called I-664)and a new bridge tunnel was built along the Chesapeake/Suffolk border to Newport News. Now, northern Suffolk is just a quick interstate hop away from the entire region.

Norfolk: You'll remember Granby Street and downtown Norfolk from the mid-80's. Not a very nice place at all. Well, in the mid-90s the current mayor did several things, first he got the Norfolk Tides a new stadium just east of downtown in the early 90's (he was a city counselor at the time). Then, in the most controversial of all the developments that have come since, the city of Norfolk agreed to largely finance the building of a huge new mall in downtown Norfolk (MacArthur Mall) in the late 90's to the tune of several hundred million dollars. Despite lots of people saying it would be a huge bust, it wasn't. In fact, its done pretty well. The focus was on upscale stores the region didn't have many of, or at all. Some of the stores failed, some did ok (such as Nordstrom's, Aldo's, etc.), and some have done spectacular (Restoration Hardware, Williams-Sonoma). The mall has more than generated enough taxes and income for the city to pay down the debt they took on.

The Waterside, as expected, lost business to the mall, though it was able to successfully refashion itself into a restaurant and night clubbing spot. In fact, the mall was the best thing that ever happened to Waterside. For the first time in its existence, the city Norfolk stopped paying out subsidies around 2000 and actually began to take in net tax revenue.

Along with the national trend of increased interest in living in downtown space, Norfolk followed along and lots of new residential construction followed. TCC also built a campus downtown, which brought a lot of students to the Granby St. corridor. So along with those new residents and students came new restaurants, shops, and other business such that DT Norfolk's property values more than tripled in like a 6 year period.

Ocean View: The Ocean View area as you know it still exists in some areas. However, a comprehensive plan to redevelop it in the mid-90's took shape and a large section of the east-beach was razed and redeveloped into (IMHO) some of the region's finest homes (with prices to match). Most of those homes have been sold in the last 2 years.

Norfolk Public Schools has also turned itself around, partly in thanks to SOLs, partly in thanks to better pay and better leadership. It has won several awards for inner-city education improvement. Crime is down very significantly since you last lived in the area (following the national trend). Several large shipping companies have located their American headquarters to Norfolk, though the Ford plant announced last year that it is closing soon. Trader Publishing is also locating its national headquarters downtown (see the thread on their new building construction).

Other Areas of Norfolk have also been redeveloped or changed a lot. ODU is still in the midst of a huge capital expansion project, but has already completed a new 8,500 seat arena primarily for basketball and concerts, and graduations. It also recently agrees to start raising funds for a new football team (I-AA). See thread on ODU development for more info.

===============

Portsmouth: Unfortunately, only some moderate redevelopment and positive change has taken place here. Most notable would be the tearing down of the Fairwood Homes subdivision and the subsequent reconstruction of middle-income homes, Mid-City being raised for a new Wal-Mart and other stores (the shopping complex had long since been almost completely vacant), the tearing down of Tower Mall and redevelopment as big box retailers and smaller stores around them, the huge new Maersk-Sealand Shipping Terminal being built as we type and read, and some other redevelopment in the city (some parts of Port Norfolk, etc), but nothing on the scale of Norfolk's residential transformation.

Virginia Beach: From 1980-2000 VB added almost 200,000 residents, many from Norfolk. Mostly, it was built out as suburbs and that process still continues, though it is slowing. As a result of running out of land in northern Virginia Beach, in the last 5-6 years the city finally decided to start building up rather than out. The result has been the creation of Towne Center in the Pembroke area. You can read about all the developments there in the VB section.

Also of note would be the new convention center that is scheduled to open soon.

Chesapeake: Really in the phase that VB was in the mid-80's to early 90's, ie. still more suburb development mostly and quick population growth, though beginning to slow.

Edited November 10, 2006 by Glassoul

[tombarnes]

While I agree with nearly all of Glassoul's assessment of Norfolk's progress, I might add that Portsmouth has indeed made impressive strides. Olde Towne Portsmouth, in particular, is far from the grim panoply of boarded up buildings and vagrants it once was years ago. High Street is making a robust comeback and downtown Portsmouth boasts a convention center and hotel, as well as a renovated Hotel Governor Dinwiddie. Given the sad prognosis for this area, in the late 70's and early 80's, I'd say the the transformation has been nothing less than remarkable. There have been hiccups along the way, and Portsmouth is far from being a dreamland, but it's far better than it was before. You might not even recognize it.

Edited November 10, 2006 by tombarnes

[hoobo]

One more thing one downtown Norfolk's renaissance. The City built a museum called Nauticus to highlight the nautical history of the region. It was built in the mid 90's between the openings of Harbor Park (Tides) in 1993 and MacArthur Center (1999). It was supposed to draw over a million people a year and really be a driver for downtown. It failed to live up to expectations and at one point only drew 200,000 people. Instead of throwing money at the mistake, the City took a cue from the mistakes learned from Waterside and refashioned Nauticus from a pure museum to a living nautical attraction. The USS Wisconsin is docked there and open for tours; however, it is part of the reserve fleet and can be called back to duty. Due to a new trend in the cruise industry and proximity to Bermuda, Norfolk was able to become a cruise ship port. Ships docked at Nauticus. That successful endeavor spurned the construction of a dedicated cruise ship terminal and events center.

There is also the Norfolk Marriott built in the early 90's and the adjacent Waterside Convention Center. It attracts a good amount of corporate/industry meetings, especially from the maritime industry, since it is a small facility intended for that purpose. (Compare it to the new VB Convention Center designed to bring trade shows and the like.)

So from these items and the ones Glassoul mentioned above, Norfolk has transformed downtown into a destination once again.

Edited November 10, 2006 by hoobo