Plaza-Midwood Projects (Central, Commonwealth, The Plaza)

[Spartan]

Any way how I can see attendance figures for Veteran's Park?

I'm a bit concerned it's underutilized and taking up a lot of space, like the Army Reserve Base.

I don't think anyone tracks attendance for public parks. IMO, the issue with that park is its suburban design which is a bigger issue related to poor site choice for parks in this city. You have to drive there, then walk to the playground in the middle of the park that can't be seen from the street. I guess you could walk down the back of curb sidewalk on Central and then up the tiny little sidewalk to get there though.

 

I think this is a fantastic idea.  An ideal location for this crosswalk would be at the intersection of Landis and Central.  The entrance to the Veterans Park is directly across the street there.  Problem is, there is no stoplight on Central there.  Maybe with the new mixed use and apartments going in along the Tommy's Pub portion, there will be enough density to get a stoplight there.

I also think crosswalks need to be put in across Plaza at Hamorton. So many people cross Plaza on Hamorton walking, biking, running, etc.  And, traffic speeds up tremendously heading north on Plaza after waiting at the intersection of Central and Plaza.  Its often like Frogger with a stroller to cross Plaza at Hamorton.  Honestly I think the PMNA should get involved in facilitating these crosswalks.

And, these two crosswalk installs would feed off each other and increase flow from west of Plaza to east of Plaza and Veterans Park because Hamorton ends into Landis.

A crosswalk won't solve the problem. Traffic still won't stop to let people across. The only way that happens is with a ped signal.

 

[Crown]

Looks like lunchbox records may be moving into 825 Central Ave next to Frock Shop 

 

[Niner National]

Looks like lunchbox records may be moving into 825 Central Ave next to Frock Shop 

 

nice catch.

[Third Strike]

I'd be surprised if you see any retail at this site.

Why do you think that? Huge loss if it doesn't have retail. The development is fronting Hawthrone and the Plaza, with the former eventually featuring the streetcar. Retail for a megablock project like this should be a requirement, IMO.

[Midwoodian]

Looks like lunchbox records may be moving into 825 Central Ave next to Frock Shop 

 

Yea good catch, the building was painted bright blue this week. I was wondering what what going on there...

[UrbanGossip]

Why do you think that? Huge loss if it doesn't have retail. The development is fronting Hawthrone and the Plaza, with the former eventually featuring the streetcar. Retail for a megablock project like this should be a requirement, IMO.

I agree 100% that it should have it. But there is no requirement for it either through conditional rezoning or otherwise. Given that, there's no chance the developer does any retail. It complicates financial structures both in development and operations. Developers would rather just keep it simple and profitable. 

[Crown]

A plan to build 18 townhomes and a pool at the VanLandingham Estate has been denied. So what happens next? Will they try to resubmit without the pool,  (and without the added hurdle of a super majority from the protest petition) or will something else happen entirely? 

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/business/biz-columns-blogs/development/article40313760.html

Edited October 20, 2015 by Crown
I spelled something wrong

[SgtCampsalot]

I hope they resubmit it. Something between detached homes and apartments are badly needed, and the pool was a nice token for the neighborhood, but it seems like it's caused more fervor than was worth...

Edited October 20, 2015 by SgtCampsalot

[boochops]

I'm really disappointed about the pool. Community members have worked for over five years to create a viable option for a neighborhood pool. I understand neighbors' concerns regarding traffic. I had those same concerns when I moved across the street from Midwood Park 13 years ago, until the park became our front yard, with my kids playing like we used to back in the day, and the park parents became some of my closest friends. 

It will be interesting to see what happens next with the VL and the land. My gut is the next hot PM development topic will be the land off of Matheson and Country Club.  

[SgtCampsalot]

It was really strange how the pool was at the behest of the residences, and the project was supported by the neighborhood org and the planning department, but it still got denied.

[Midwoodian]

 

A plan to build 18 townhomes and a pool at the VanLandingham Estate has been denied. So what happens next? Will they try to resubmit without the pool,  (and without the added hurdle of a super majority from the protest petition) or will something else happen entirely? 

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/business/biz-columns-blogs/development/article40313760.html

City Council's decision to deny this rezoning is a failure of local government.  The pool and town-homes would have built community and this project was a shining example of a neighborhood and developers collaborating to develop a project that would have a positive impact on the urban living environment. I understand the opposition to the pool by several neighbors because of the increase in traffic. Their concerns are valid.  (Note: in between the September public hearing and the vote last night, representatives of the project met with the Church next to the property and reached an agreement; and, the Church reversed its stance to one of acceptance).

Furthermore, the Neighborhood Association supported the project, the Historic District Commission supported it, the Landmarks Commission supported it, and the City Zoning Committee recommended it.  And most importantly, over 300 individuals and families, approximately 80% of which reside in Plaza Midwood, supported the project--investing between $1200 and $2000 of their own money in the pool's development.

Unfortunately, this project was a missed opportunity to build community, improve the urban environment, and enhance the quality of life for Plaza Midwood. 

 

Edited October 20, 2015 by Midwoodian

[PMrez]

A crosswalk won't solve the problem. Traffic still won't stop to let people across. The only way that happens is with a ped signal.

 

I should have been more specific. Crosswalk with ped signal is what I was envisioning. 

[kermit]

 

City Council's decision to deny this rezoning is a failure of local government.  The pool and town-homes would have built community and this project was a shining example of a neighborhood and developers collaborating to develop a project that would have a positive impact on the urban living environment. I understand the opposition to the pool by several neighbors because of the increase in traffic. Their concerns are valid.  (Note: in between the September public hearing and the vote last night, representatives of the project met with the Church next to the property and reached an agreement; and, the Church reversed its stance to one of acceptance).

I gotta wonder if the council and neighborhood concerns about traffic would have been less pronounced if the streetcar was already running past Plaza on Central. I know that few folks would take transit to a pool, but perhaps the presence of mass transit elsewhere in the hood would have eased concerns about traffic and parking. I do think the blue line has reduced the reflexive NIUMBY response to higher densities on the edge of Dilworth -- I rarely hear beotching about traffic and parking from my neighbors.

 

 

Edited October 20, 2015 by kermit

[BNY]

A significant portion of the PM community did not support the pool (and the neighborhood association caused some conflict by announcing support for the project before most anyone knew about it). At the end of the day, this site simply cannot supply the parking for the uses it was requesting.  

It'll be interesting to see if Maddalon moves forward with the townhomes or not. 

[kermit]

At the end of the day, this site simply cannot supply the parking for the uses it was requesting.  

I apologize in advance for being contentious but I disagree with this statement. On a really busy day the pool was likely to attract 100 (ish) folks. if 1/3 of them walk (wasn't membership going to be targeted on the neighborhood?) and 70 people drive there is plainly more than enough on street parking to accommodate 30-40 cars. Like it or not, residents don't own the on street spaces.

Parking is the heroin of urbanism, if we keep blocking projects because of our fear of not having enough space for cars we are just going to worsen our addiction.

Edited October 20, 2015 by kermit

[atlrvr]

A significant portion of the PM community did not support the pool (and the neighborhood association caused some conflict by announcing support for the project before most anyone knew about it). At the end of the day, this site simply cannot supply the parking for the uses it was requesting.

It'll be interesting to see if Maddalon moves forward with the townhomes or not.

Maybe he just sells the entire property to Ryan Homes to jam as many townhomes with front-loaded garages they can get there once they go up for a different zoning request with no protest petition, and the 1-year demolition permit stay is exhausted for Historic district.

[Silicon Dogwoods]

Maybe he just sells the entire property to Ryan Homes to jam as many townhomes with front-loaded garages they can get there once they go up for a different zoning request with no protest petition, and the 1-year demolition permit stay is exhausted for Historic district.

Exactly. 

A significant portion of the PM community did not support the pool (and the neighborhood association caused some conflict by announcing support for the project before most anyone knew about it). At the end of the day, this site simply cannot supply the parking for the uses it was requesting.  

It'll be interesting to see if Maddalon moves forward with the townhomes or not. 

He offered to move a lot of the parking offsite, didn't he? 

It seems as though a significant portion of the PM community wants no change at all and wants Billy Maddalon to continue to pay for it.

 

Edited October 20, 2015 by Silicon Dogwoods

[archiham04]

so what makes this project any different than the Midtown project last month, and why can't Billy just call for "redo" and say: "no pool... now we cool?"  just like homeslice in midtown called back and said "na man, i'll cut 6 feet out" and got a revote?

Maybe he just sells the entire property to Ryan Homes to jam as many townhomes with front-loaded garages they can get there once they go up for a different zoning request with no protest petition, and the 1-year demolition permit stay is exhausted for Historic district.

Hopefully Landmarks has deep enough pockets to purchase the estate and then go forward with the townhome project.

[Silicon Dogwoods]

It was really strange how the pool was at the behest of the residences, and the project was supported by the neighborhood org and the planning department, but it still got denied.

There's more here than meets the eye, I'd say.

so what makes this project any different than the Midtown project last month, and why can't Billy just call for "redo" and say: "no pool... now we cool?"  just like homeslice in midtown called back and said "na man, i'll cut 6 feet out" and got a revote?

Hopefully Landmarks has deep enough pockets to purchase the estate and then go forward with the townhome project.

I didn't know that Landmarks purchased endangered historic properties?

[kermit]

Is there anything stopping Madlon from waiting until the protest petition ban goes into effect and resubmitting the plan including the pool?

I really don't hope that the VL gets sold and McMansioned, but this story does remind me of a rezoning in NE Georgia back in the late 1990s. A farmer's fields had subdivisions on either side, the farmer was near retirement and did nothing with the fields other than grow hay. He requested a rezoning so he could also sell his farm to a developer. The communities on both sides did not like the idea of loosing their pastoral views or the potential traffic, and the NIMBYs succeeded in preventing the rezoning. The next morning the farmer had six trucks dump chicken manure 'fertilizer' on the land. Once the neighbors smelled real farming  they changed their attitudes quickly. 

Hopefully Landmarks has deep enough pockets to purchase the estate and then go forward with the townhome project.

They do not

Edited October 20, 2015 by kermit

[Midwoodian]

Old Chatham Swim club would have had 80+ parking spots; more than any other neighborhood pool in Charlotte.

The parking spots would have been located among estate parking, the overflow lot a block north that is owned by the estate, and the neighboring church's lot (which was agreed to after the September public hearing and a meeting with pool representatives).

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Midwoodian]

Redo can't occur now because basically procedural rules changed.

Resubmitting without the pool is probably what will happen. As a denied petition, it won't have to wait 2 years because dropping the pool is a significant enough change.

And, it will pass, because two hours before the meeting last night council told Maddalon they would pass it if he dropped the pool. But he didn't want to do that to his neighborhood and all those who worked hard to make the pool a reality.

[Silicon Dogwoods]

Redo can't occur now because basically procedural rules changed.

 

Resubmitting without the pool is probably what will happen. As a denied petition, it won't have to wait 2 years because dropping the pool is a significant enough change.

 

And, it will pass, because two hours before the meeting last night council told Maddalon they would pass it if he dropped the pool. But he didn't want to do that to his neighborhood and all those who worked hard to make the pool a reality.

 

Really don't understand why the pool was such a deal-breaker, especially with the subsequent concessions and modifications.

Billy M. should exact revenge on the ridiculous NIMBYs and sell it to...Pulte!

[kermit]

Great CBJ article by Will Boye on Maddalon's side of the rezoning story. It makes it sound like there will be 23 townhomes on the site in no time (and no more VL estate).

http://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/blog/real_estate/2015/10/vanlandingham-owner-stunned-by-city-council-vote.html?ana=e_clt_bn_exclusive&u=jDmEk%2BCKbYnAvaVfOFOlFGXcGSC&t=1445546625

 

[Silicon Dogwoods]

Great CBJ article by Will Boye on Maddalon's side of the rezoning story. It makes it sound like there will be 23 townhomes on the site in no time (and no more VL estate).

http://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/blog/real_estate/2015/10/vanlandingham-owner-stunned-by-city-council-vote.html?ana=e_clt_bn_exclusive&u=jDmEk%2BCKbYnAvaVfOFOlFGXcGSC&t=1445546625

 

Patsy Kinsey pulled the rug out from under (as politely as I can say it) Billy Maddalon.

 

Edited October 23, 2015 by Silicon Dogwoods