Orlando Attractions Area News & Developments

[aent]

18 hours ago, jrs2 said:

Wow.  A whole lot to cover here:

Building and/or expanding a convention center is a "red" county phenomenon?  And "blue" politics is diametrically opposed to said expansion?  So this is a political ideology issue? Where did this come from?  Is Cook a red county?  Is New York County with the Javitz Center a red county?  LA County?  SF? Fulton? Is that why you're so opposed to expanding the OCCC b/c it goes against the or your personal "liberal" handbook?  I did not expect that and I am floored right now at this perspective.  So you're saying only Republicans want it expanded?  Wow.  Was it Republicans that expanded McCormick Place...again... within the past ten years?

And Demmings put it on hold because the hotel tax took a nose dive and it's recovery rate was too slow to get back up to pre-covid numbers.

Chicago has crime on the South Side because of gang related violence.  I am not going to get into Chicago politics, but CPD is a fine, well funded police force.  If crime makes its way into downtown or more north it is because of other reasons.  And, if crime and/or protests are curtailed  that is also for other reasons.

I don't know how Rahm Emmanuel suddenly became the civic poster child for "Democrats," and I don't even think that's true, but if that's the best you could come up with, then the future looks very bright with a red tint to it.

As for convention centers not being money makers, Osceola tried to get into the game first with World Expo Center (with a contract from Reed Exhibition), for the big money, which led to big brother litigation with Orange because of their plans to expand the OCCC.   So they quashed Osceola's white elephant because Orange wanted to have the corner on the white elephant market.  And even after this, Osceola still wanted to partner with Gaylord for a private-public CC for Osceola- and that wasn't that long ago.  The games "Republicans" play?  Really?

The factor that put CFLA wages at 50/50 wasn't the OCCC.  It was the Disney and Universal employment machines which predominantly employed a giant percentage of the work force while other better paying  industries lagged behind in growing either because of need, perception, or lack of political nurturing. You can't blame the OCCC for that or even Disney.  If it ain't home grown, then they want perks to move to your swamp.  There's only so many perks you can give an industry when you realize the benefit is outweighed by the cost.  But according to your philosophy (and prior posts), the money is well spent if it is to give tax breaks to liberal Hollywood studios that want to move here, as opposed to a perceivably conservative-rooted industry aka conventions and/or lodging per your comment above. 

"OC is now the bluest of blue counties - the politics for expansion are going to be further and further out of reach" 

In Spenser's eyes, anything thats good for the businesses and makes them want to expand in Orlando is bad for Orlando. Infact, the entire tourism industry is just terrible for Orlando, since it creates a ton of "low wage" jobs operating the parks, even though its literally one of the main things that makes people want to live here.

None of his examples make any sense... even Las Vegas literally just finished an expansion of their convention center, and Orlando's proposal was literally in response to Orlando losing (or at least being suspected to lose) major conventions as the Vegas center is just getting too far ahead of ours, so if they have space, conventions will pick Vegas first if they're only doing one in the US. One big hit it because of their expansion and our lack of movement, the largest convention currently at Orlando, the International Builders Show, signed a contract to move to Vegas from 2027-2039, the show used to alternate between the 2 cities, and the 1 show typically filled up both convention centers completely, and other events tend to fill up everything in the entire area. And because they have such a large need for hotel rooms and amenities, the largest shows typically pick the very worst weeks of the year, when the hotels are empty, so it helps keep our occupancy rates high, keeps the theme parks and other businesses busy, etc.

I'm not sure on the actual needs for the convention center, and why we just lost a few of the biggest conventions, but its important for Orlando to try to do what it can to keep the convention business here and remain the top contender. The trickle down effects everyone real as well. When I got my first job out of college at a local tech company, and the owner came to visit us, I asked him why he picked Orlando as his second location, and his answer was immediately the convention center. And the convention center helps drive so much traffic through the airports and such, that the companies that locate here for our huge airport are also doing it for the convention center and theme park industry.

[jliv]

I don't know enough about MLB and the dynamic of the $$$ commitment needed for the Rays to move here.  Any thoughts you have would be greatly appreciated...

Just to be clear, I’m not a baseball fan, so this isn’t an invitation for people to rant about their feelings about tax dollars spent on sports facilities. But, the facts:

- The Rays lease at Tropicana Field runs out in 2027, and a replacement plan has yet to be identified
- the MLB owners recently rejected a plan to split games between Montreal and St Petersburg
- Jerry Demings has made a few comments recently about a baseball stadium being more suitable for the I-Drive area.
- Pat Williams has gone quiet with his effort to lure a team, but he’s had direct conversations with the Rays management.

All of this is striking when you consider the size of the Orange County pot which can only be spent on a handful of things , by law, like, say, a baseball stadium. Any of the other contending cities for relocation won’t have ready access to a funding source like this. Considering how the Ray ownership group is coming down to the wire and how quiet things are, I’m guessing there’s something in the works. I read somewhere (maybe I misread) that they are not allowed to negotiate with other cities until 5 years before the end of their lease, so they are moving into that period this year.


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[spenser1058]

The new Gateway attraction at KSC is really kicking up a notch as an attraction. It’s much more interactive and allows you to compare vehicles and scenarios. Yet another IP roller coaster at the parks have long lost any excitement for me. 

All the nerds like me that bemoan the transformation of Epcot into just another theme park  should really like this:

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/travel/attractions/os-et-kennedy-space-center-gateway-20220527-rdqwbid6gvd2va52jcmpc3kopq-story.html

From The Sentinel 
 

Edited May 27, 2022 by spenser1058

[AmIReal]

Per GS, a New York investment firm has bought nearly 18 acres in the area of OCCC, Universal's 1,000 unit affordable/mixed-income housing community, the proposed rail stop and the gates to Universal's Epic.

No word on what is planned for the property.

https://www.growthspotter.com/news/gs-news-universal-orlando-theme-park-development-20220527-p27bwiavdvcwdp7nw33qefmyhe-story.html

"The property highlighted in blue was recently purchased by New York-based East Rock Capital for $19.3 million. The property highligted in pink is where Universal is planning to build its next theme park, Epic Universe. (Orange County Property Appraiser)"

Btw, I know that above text related to the photo is wrong, but it is what was posted with the photo. It does, at least give a fairly good idea where the land is.

Edited May 27, 2022 by AmIReal

[smileguy]

4 hours ago, aent said:

In Spenser's eyes, anything thats good for the businesses and makes them want to expand in Orlando is bad for Orlando. Infact, the entire tourism industry is just terrible for Orlando, since it creates a ton of "low wage" jobs operating the parks, even though its literally one of the main things that makes people want to live here.

None of his examples make any sense... even Las Vegas literally just finished an expansion of their convention center, and Orlando's proposal was literally in response to Orlando losing (or at least being suspected to lose) major conventions as the Vegas center is just getting too far ahead of ours, so if they have space, conventions will pick Vegas first if they're only doing one in the US. One big hit it because of their expansion and our lack of movement, the largest convention currently at Orlando, the International Builders Show, signed a contract to move to Vegas from 2027-2039, the show used to alternate between the 2 cities, and the 1 show typically filled up both convention centers completely, and other events tend to fill up everything in the entire area. And because they have such a large need for hotel rooms and amenities, the largest shows typically pick the very worst weeks of the year, when the hotels are empty, so it helps keep our occupancy rates high, keeps the theme parks and other businesses busy, etc.

I'm not sure on the actual needs for the convention center, and why we just lost a few of the biggest conventions, but its important for Orlando to try to do what it can to keep the convention business here and remain the top contender. The trickle down effects everyone real as well. When I got my first job out of college at a local tech company, and the owner came to visit us, I asked him why he picked Orlando as his second location, and his answer was immediately the convention center. And the convention center helps drive so much traffic through the airports and such, that the companies that locate here for our huge airport are also doing it for the convention center and theme park industry.

Some topline information from a recent study...

Top  Reasons Planners Consider Orlando (over 60% of respondents)

• Hotel options (variety of rates, quality, etc.)
• Ease of getting in/out of
• Orlando Destination appeal to attendees

Meeting Venue options (variety, size, uniqueness)  came in at 50% and didn't make the list of reasons to exclude Orlando

Top  reasons Planners Exclude Orlando (over 60% of respondents)|

• Low destination appeal to client leadership
• Destination is not walkable

Top Reasons Attendees Desire Orlando  (over 50% of respondents)

• Good weather
• Good entertainment options
• Good place to extend business trip for leisure

Top Reasons Attendees don't Desire Orlando  (over 50% of respondents)

• High travel costs
• Inadequate COVID safety (cases + protocols)
• Difficulty of getting in/out of Orlando

 

[spenser1058]

Hey, if the cities you want to benchmark us against are Chicago and Las Vegas, then keep on going. I think we can do better.

[aent]

42 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

Hey, if the cities you want to benchmark us against are Chicago and Las Vegas, then keep on going. I think we can do better.

In the convention category? Errrmmm..... like what?

[jrs2]

7 hours ago, jliv said:

Just to be clear, I’m not a baseball fan, so this isn’t an invitation for people to rant about their feelings about tax dollars spent on sports facilities. But, the facts:

- The Rays lease at Tropicana Field runs out in 2027, and a replacement plan has yet to be identified
- the MLB owners recently rejected a plan to split games between Montreal and St Petersburg
- Jerry Demings has made a few comments recently about a baseball stadium being more suitable for the I-Drive area.
- Pat Williams has gone quiet with his effort to lure a team, but he’s had direct conversations with the Rays management.

All of this is striking when you consider the size of the Orange County pot which can only be spent on a handful of things , by law, like, say, a baseball stadium. Any of the other contending cities for relocation won’t have ready access to a funding source like this. Considering how the Ray ownership group is coming down to the wire and how quiet things are, I’m guessing there’s something in the works. I read somewhere (maybe I misread) that they are not allowed to negotiate with other cities until 5 years before the end of their lease, so they are moving into that period this year.


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fascinating stuff...

I wonder if the move to put the expansion on hold at OCCC (to the tune of $600M) using covid as a pretext was really because they are trying to secure funds to make a bid to get the Rays here, and to plot a ballpark somewhere to the east of the N/S Bldg.  And if that's the case, they figure having x number of home games here would be a bigger "entertainment" option for conventioneers than a new lobby and ballroom at the N/S Bldg.  How clever...

[spenser1058]

3 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

fascinating stuff...

I wonder if the move to put the expansion on hold at OCCC (to the tune of $600M) using covid as a pretext was really because they are trying to secure funds to make a bid to get the Rays here, and to plot a ballpark somewhere to the east of the N/S Bldg.  And if that's the case, they figure having x number of home games here would be a bigger "entertainment" option for conventioneers than a new lobby and ballroom at the N/S Bldg.  How clever...

You know, maybe if they plant a huge corn field on S. International Drive…..

[jrs2]

7 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

You know, maybe if they plant a huge corn field on S. International Drive…..

...THINGS happen when you plant cornfields...just sayin'

[spenser1058]

2 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

...THINGS happen when you plant cornfields...just sayin'

Of course, you may get push back from Zellwood.

[jrs2]

6 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

Of course, you may get push back from Zellwood.

I don't know.  I just don't see The Rays coming here.  It might be another JetBlue power play to get better stuff locally.

[spenser1058]

55 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

I don't know.  I just don't see The Rays coming here.  It might be another JetBlue power play to get better stuff locally.

If MLB leaves Tampa/St Pete, it will be headed out of Florida. There are other up and coming cities like Charlotte and Nashville that, you know, actually demonstrate an interest in baseball with minor league teams whose parks are full most nights.

Orlando tore down its historic field (Tinker to Evans to Chance, for God’s sake), and couldn’t even support a minor league team. Also, have you noticed that Pat Williams and his Hawaiian shirt haven’t been heard from since day one of The Dreamers?

Then there’s the fact that the MLB brass wish they’d never come to the state in the first place.

As for tying in with Universal, the demographic of MLB is getting older every year. When has Universal EVER sought out that age group. There’s a reason the Food & Wine Festival has been wildly successful at Epcot and Uni hasn’t sought to imitate it. It’s the “Woodstock for empty nesters”.

One of the most important things for an MLB team is corporate support. Atlanta’s top three corporate supporters provide the Braves more every year than ALL of Tampa Bay’s. Orlando would be even worse. Again, Charlotte and Nashville hit it out of the park with corporate HQ’s and significant corporate outposts. And, Heaven forfend, people actually LIKE baseball there.

In the age of Chapek, if it ain’t moving the bottom line, he ain’t doing it. Universal and Martin have been largely ignoring all but token community support. The list gets very short after that. 

Edited May 28, 2022 by spenser1058

[jrs2]

5 hours ago, AmIReal said:

Per GS, a New York investment firm has bought nearly 18 acres in the area of OCCC, Universal's 1,000 unit affordable/mixed-income housing community, the proposed rail stop and the gates to Universal's Epic.

No word on what is planned for the property.

https://www.growthspotter.com/news/gs-news-universal-orlando-theme-park-development-20220527-p27bwiavdvcwdp7nw33qefmyhe-story.html

"The property highlighted in blue was recently purchased by New York-based East Rock Capital for $19.3 million. The property highligted in pink is where Universal is planning to build its next theme park, Epic Universe. (Orange County Property Appraiser)"

Btw, I know that above text related to the photo is wrong, but it is what was posted with the photo. It does, at least give a fairly good idea where the land is.

I think that is the original Village of Imagine property sans the former Westin.

[spenser1058]

Sea Workd Orlando announces coaster #7 coming in 2023. Not many details beyond that although it’s apparently going in the area known as Bayside Pathway.

SeaWorld announces another roller coaster
https://www.orlandosentinel.com/travel/attractions/seaworld/os-et-seaworld-orlando-new-roller-coaster-high-surf-20220603-qjodws3bqrcepnuw7cgupibh7y-story.html

From The Sentinel 

A bit more speculation on the details from Theme Park Insider:

https://www.themeparkinsider.com/flume/202206/8982/

Edited June 3, 2022 by spenser1058

[jrs2]

On 6/3/2022 at 6:47 PM, spenser1058 said:

Sea Workd Orlando announces coaster #7 coming in 2023. Not many details beyond that although it’s apparently going in the area known as Bayside Pathway.

SeaWorld announces another roller coaster
https://www.orlandosentinel.com/travel/attractions/seaworld/os-et-seaworld-orlando-new-roller-coaster-high-surf-20220603-qjodws3bqrcepnuw7cgupibh7y-story.html

From The Sentinel 

A bit more speculation on the details from Theme Park Insider:

https://www.themeparkinsider.com/flume/202206/8982/

it's a stand up coaster.  seen one at Cedar Point back in the day.  excellent.  they gotta keep it up...more and more thrill rides to morph their image...and its working...now, when I see the name Sea World, other than it being a metaphor for a Brazilian, it is a name that's becoming synonymous with coasters.

[HankStrong]

23 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

it's a stand up coaster.  seen one at Cedar Point back in the day.  excellent.  they gotta keep it up...more and more thrill rides to morph their image...and its working...now, when I see the name Sea World, other than it being a metaphor for a Brazilian, it is a name that's becoming synonymous with coasters.

The King Cobra @ Kings Island back in the day was stand up.  

[jrs2]

22 minutes ago, HankStrong said:

The King Cobra @ Kings Island back in the day was stand up.  

I love these coasters; I admire the engineering; I just can't ride them b/c of motion sickness.  The key is that if I do two in a row I'm done.  Harry Potter broke down for 10 minutes, and when it started up again, I almost hurled.

Howl O Scream is big at Busch Gardens.  I think they brought a taste of that here last year.  If that gets traction to compete with HHN, that would be HUGE for SW.  Competition...time for Comcast to pony up some more...

[F-L-A]

16 hours ago, jrs2 said:

I love these coasters; I admire the engineering; I just can't ride them b/c of motion sickness.  The key is that if I do two in a row I'm done.  Harry Potter broke down for 10 minutes, and when it started up again, I almost hurled.

Howl O Scream is big at Busch Gardens.  I think they brought a taste of that here last year.  If that gets traction to compete with HHN, that would be HUGE for SW.  Competition...time for Comcast to pony up some more...

I went to all three Halloween events last year. HOS has a long way to go if they want to compete with HHN, the one at SeaWorld particularly. It's nothing more than an additional option thus far.

[codypet]

Has anyone seen the Mangoes garage this week?  The screen is on and Holy crap what a difference.  As gaudy as it is, I don't hate it.  My parents however, DO.  Dr. Phillips area is none too pleased.  Apparently in part because they keep being told you won't be able to see these things from the Dr. Phillips area........but you definitely do.

[jrs2]

56 minutes ago, codypet said:

Has anyone seen the Mangoes garage this week?  The screen is on and Holy crap what a difference.  As gaudy as it is, I don't hate it.  My parents however, DO.  Dr. Phillips area is none too pleased.  Apparently in part because they keep being told you won't be able to see these things from the Dr. Phillips area........but you definitely do.

Orangewood, right?  Those people had to suffer The Orlando EYE, which was trumped by Starflyer, which was trumped by the drop tower, which are all being trumped by this.  Hilarious.

Here's a tip for them...plant some pine trees and wait ten years.

[codypet]

2 hours ago, jrs2 said:

Orangewood, right?  Those people had to suffer The Orlando EYE, which was trumped by Starflyer, which was trumped by the drop tower, which are all being trumped by this.  Hilarious.

Here's a tip for them...plant some pine trees and wait ten years.

Phillips Landing and apparently Granada Villas and Bay Vista have had similar complaints.  My understanding is that the developers for the eye stated that their analysis showed that the eye could not be seen by the closest residences from the eye (and later Starflyer).  The closest residences however are not Orangewood or anything in Dr.  Phillips, it was Tangelo Park.  So of course you couldn't see it from there.  

At night it is very very bright.  (This is Grenada Villas in the immediate foreground)

Edited June 9, 2022 by codypet

[IAmFloridaBorn]

3 hours ago, codypet said:

Has anyone seen the Mangoes garage this week?  The screen is on and Holy crap what a difference.  As gaudy as it is, I don't hate it.  My parents however, DO.  Dr. Phillips area is none too pleased.  Apparently in part because they keep being told you won't be able to see these things from the Dr. Phillips area........but you definitely do.

I would hate to live anywhere near the  Turkey Lake Walmart where they are building all those townhomes and homes. 

[codypet]

4 minutes ago, IAmFloridaBorn said:

I would hate to live anywhere near the  Turkey Lake Walmart where they are building all those townhomes and homes. 

Wait 6 mos to a year.  The interchange has like 2 years of reconfiguring construction starting up.  That includes a complete rethinking of the Turkey Lake/Sand Lake intersection.

[spenser1058]

Moving to Dr Phillips and expecting not to be impacted by the tourism hoopla is like moving next to the airport and being shocked by the noise. We knew that back in the ‘70’s, for heaven’s sake.