COMPLETE: Dunkin' Donuts Center renovations

[09/21/38]

The decision was made five years ago to renovate the Dunk but not to expand it. It would have been to expensive to add new seats and do the other things that needed to be done. I agree that they should add seats at the east end of the arena vs having the restaurant but the restaurant and bar bring in big bucks during each event.

I think it was the right decision for this time. If the demand is there in the future then maybe expansion could happen but that is a long way off.

Hartford is going thru the same process now. Do they renovate or build from scratch.

[numonex]

I suppose that depends on the types of shows you want to see. There have been very few shows coming to arenas that have been worthwhile. Also, don't knock the kiddie shows. They bring in TONS of money and people. Hannah Montana nearly shut the city down with the amount of people here. Hasbeens are also quite the attraction, and make up the majority of concert tours going on today. Most concerts happen during the summer and are at the outdoor ampitheatres, with which we can't compete because RI doesn't have one.

As for everything else, the P-Bruins have been doing really well and the city is always mobbed when they have games. Same thing goes for PC games.

And again, stop putting Boston in this mix. The Dunk is nowhere near the same class as the Garden. There is no comparison. Unless Providence gets a 20k seat arena, we will never be competing against Boston for events.

Here is where we disagree except for possibly the sporting events which are minor league and college. Take Hanna...Parents take their kids to the show, park..enter the arena...watch the show..and LEAVE. Very little gets spent in the surrounding area thus doesnt really do much for the local economy. It is the acts that draw 18-35 audiance that get the early arrivers and lingerers that will exit the show and visit the area bisinesses whether it would be clubs, food, etc.

Also...As a state we need to get away from this small thinking. Bigger shows draw from further away...out of state. This states economy has been a desaster in recent years and a part of that is the lack of outside spending. There is nothing really in this state that draws from out of state. i fail to see this think small mantality in the current situation. Its simple economics that to make money in an aconomic sense you need to draw outside spending. This is why RI has the highest sales tax rate in new england and we are still broke.

We need big thinking for the big picture or we will continue to spiral down and our taxes will continue to rise. Just like the previous gentleman said...He spent his cash out of state

[numonex]

The decision was made five years ago to renovate the Dunk but not to expand it. It would have been to expensive to add new seats and do the other things that needed to be done. I agree that they should add seats at the east end of the arena vs having the restaurant but the restaurant and bar bring in big bucks during each event.

I think it was the right decision for this time. If the demand is there in the future then maybe expansion could happen but that is a long way off.

Hartford is going thru the same process now. Do they renovate or build from scratch.

They are and I think the decision is due in September. Tell me something tho..What happens when, and I am sure they will do it right, when they either renovate or build a new arena with 18-20K capacity? Going to make it even harder for the Dunk to even compete...It CANT.

[runawayjim]

Here is where we disagree except for possibly the sporting events which are minor league and college. Take Hanna...Parents take their kids to the show, park..enter the arena...watch the show..and LEAVE. Very little gets spent in the surrounding area thus doesnt really do much for the local economy. It is the acts that draw 18-35 audiance that get the early arrivers and lingerers that will exit the show and visit the area bisinesses whether it would be clubs, food, etc.

Also...As a state we need to get away from this small thinking. Bigger shows draw from further away...out of state. This states economy has been a desaster in recent years and a part of that is the lack of outside spending. There is nothing really in this state that draws from out of state. i fail to see this think small mantality in the current situation. Its simple economics that to make money in an aconomic sense you need to draw outside spending. This is why RI has the highest sales tax rate in new england and we are still broke.

We need big thinking for the big picture or we will continue to spiral down and our taxes will continue to rise. Just like the previous gentleman said...He spent his cash out of state

when it comes to bigger shows, we will always likely be boston's little brother. i assume you're talking about concerts. most bigger acts don't play as many shows. they want the cities where they can get the largest number of people. that means foxboro, tweeter (or comcast now i guess) center, boston, xl center, whatever the meadows is called now, uconn's football stadium, giants stadium, msg. unfortunately, we're a mere hour from boston. the shows that are skipping over providence are also skipping over worcester.

and as i said, the big summer tours want the outdoor places, like the tweeter center or meadows (or whatever they're called now). they want the places with loads of parking where people can tailgate and crap. what we need to draw are the fall, winter, and spring tours when people don't want to be outside. unfortunately, though, there aren't many bands doing a ton of touring like that (phish was the big one that could usually be counted on). with gas prices, bands are touring less now.

no matter how you slice it, those 800 seats we lost didn't hurt us any. however, the addition of the luxury boxes did help. so with fewer bands touring year 'round, we end up back on the sporting events, which do well in the dunk and bring people out and about in the city. the only way to get a capacity that can compete is to rebuild and i doubt they have the money for that (and they might not even have the space without moving the arena to another part of the city, which i would not go for).

They are and I think the decision is due in September. Tell me something tho..What happens when, and I am sure they will do it right, when they either renovate or build a new arena with 18-20K capacity? Going to make it even harder for the Dunk to even compete...It CANT.

did you ever stop and think that the dunk isn't trying to compete for all those big name concerts? it's trying to compete for the smaller ones.

[numonex]

when it comes to bigger shows, we will always likely be boston's little brother. i assume you're talking about concerts. most bigger acts don't play as many shows. they want the cities where they can get the largest number of people. that means foxboro, tweeter (or comcast now i guess) center, boston, xl center, whatever the meadows is called now, uconn's football stadium, giants stadium, msg. unfortunately, we're a mere hour from boston. the shows that are skipping over providence are also skipping over worcester.

and as i said, the big summer tours want the outdoor places, like the tweeter center or meadows (or whatever they're called now). they want the places with loads of parking where people can tailgate and crap. what we need to draw are the fall, winter, and spring tours when people don't want to be outside. unfortunately, though, there aren't many bands doing a ton of touring like that (phish was the big one that could usually be counted on). with gas prices, bands are touring less now.

no matter how you slice it, those 800 seats we lost didn't hurt us any. however, the addition of the luxury boxes did help. so with fewer bands touring year 'round, we end up back on the sporting events, which do well in the dunk and bring people out and about in the city. the only way to get a capacity that can compete is to rebuild and i doubt they have the money for that (and they might not even have the space without moving the arena to another part of the city, which i would not go for).

did you ever stop and think that the dunk isn't trying to compete for all those big name concerts? it's trying to compete for the smaller ones.

Yes and yes. I am not trying to disagree with you I am trying to point out the err in that line of thinking. Being Bostons little sister, as you put it, has NO benefit to the state of RI and iw why are economy is a mess. Rising taxes, less jobs, etc.

I agree with you with the outdoor venues too and not for nothing we need one of those too. I am looking at things like the shows that do go to arenas. If sporting events do so well, and I am agreeing that they do, why no professional teams? Size is the big factor.

I am looking at this thing from a big picture economic standpoint and small shows and minor league teams do have the shot in the arm that the larger events do.

Also correct me if I am wrong. The luxury boxes sell for 40k each per year, right? That is what I read. I actually wunder how many seats could be in the same realestate as the box selling for say $25 per seat per event. I bet if you were to calculate it down the "big money" isnt all that big.

[numonex]

the new luxury boxes cost 50K each (I believe), so that is 1M for 20 of them. If they lost 800 seats, that would mean $1250.00 bucks per seat in revenue just to equal the luxury box revenue. Considering that these seats were all at the top of the arena and that not every event sells out, I'd say that the net revenue is considerably higher than having the 'regular' seats. The luxury box revenue is also gauranteed versus risking un-sold regular seats.

also, someone needs to verify if the 15 seats per suite is counted into the new total capacity. That is 300 seats right there that they 're-gained.'

If I am following your math correctly. 1250 per seat in revenew..... 1250 per seat PER EVENT. lets say that the DDC sells out 20 events in the year... 1250/20=62 So considering that the boxes are purchased annually that basing on 20 events the seat cost would be more like $62. I dont see the big differance. Granted there is a differance but if the cunk does more tha 20 events the differance shrinks fast.

[CtownMikey]

Britney came in 2004.. life is complete.

[runawayjim]

Yes and yes. I am not trying to disagree with you I am trying to point out the err in that line of thinking. Being Bostons little sister, as you put it, has NO benefit to the state of RI and iw why are economy is a mess. Rising taxes, less jobs, etc.

I agree with you with the outdoor venues too and not for nothing we need one of those too. I am looking at things like the shows that do go to arenas. If sporting events do so well, and I am agreeing that they do, why no professional teams? Size is the big factor.

I am looking at this thing from a big picture economic standpoint and small shows and minor league teams do have the shot in the arm that the larger events do.

Also correct me if I am wrong. The luxury boxes sell for 40k each per year, right? That is what I read. I actually wunder how many seats could be in the same realestate as the box selling for say $25 per seat per event. I bet if you were to calculate it down the "big money" isnt all that big.

there's no room for another outdoor ampitheatre in the region. tweeter is only half an hour away. the same shows that go there play meadows, which is about an hour and a half away. RI will likely never have an outdoor ampitheatre. the outdoor venue RI does have is fort adams. festival network is working on making both of the big festivals there relevant again (and i can say from experience, the folk fest was awesome). they need more events like that than just 2 weekends in august. providence had huge parks that can handle events of similar size. think of a show at the temple of music in RWP. how about an outdoor concert at india point park? they won't hold 17k, but they hold a few thousand (the folk fest supposedly had about 8k each day, though it seemed like a whole lot more).

there's talk of another major league baseball team for the boston market. there's a whole thread about that (which it looks like you found and are putting all your money in the arena pocket). we do have professional teams, what do you think the p-bruins and the pawsox are? they're just minor league. i don't think there's enough room for another major league basketball team here, considering pro basketball isn't quite as popular as it once was.

and i never meant that being boston's little sister is a good thing, but there are some things that we'll likely always be that way for... having a huge arena and attracting major league professional sports teams and huge concerts is one of them. but there are some things that being boston's little sister is good for. ticket prices aren't outrageous here. watching the p-bruins is affordable. more people can afford to go to trinity for a burger and beer before heading across the street. you do get the smaller concerts that may not be able to fill the garden but could easily fill the dunk. i'm not selling us short by saying any of this either. we have something going here and we'll only be able to draw more with the renovations. the dunk never was and never will be competing with the garden. i said before, we're competing first with worcester, second with mohegan sun, and third with hartford. if we can draw events out of mohegan and worcester, we'd be golden. and that's what the renovations should hopefully do.

[09/21/38]

The renovations will make the Dunk more competitive with the other locations in New England. But many of the touring show's historically go back to where they have been before or choose a location based on the contract or relationship with the management of the venue.

Since the state now owns the Dunk, there is a more professional management team in place. Not one staffed with relatives of the mayor. And the state is trying to market the Dunk and Convention Center as one building not seperate. This is attractive for events like the NCAA tournament and US Figure Skating championship which need addtional meeting rooms, practice facilities and function space.

It will be interesting to see how the renovated Dunk does in attracting concerts and national shows going forward.

[numonex]

there's no room for another outdoor ampitheatre in the region. tweeter is only half an hour away. the same shows that go there play meadows, which is about an hour and a half away. RI will likely never have an outdoor ampitheatre. the outdoor venue RI does have is fort adams. festival network is working on making both of the big festivals there relevant again (and i can say from experience, the folk fest was awesome). they need more events like that than just 2 weekends in august. providence had huge parks that can handle events of similar size. think of a show at the temple of music in RWP. how about an outdoor concert at india point park? they won't hold 17k, but they hold a few thousand (the folk fest supposedly had about 8k each day, though it seemed like a whole lot more).

there's talk of another major league baseball team for the boston market. there's a whole thread about that (which it looks like you found and are putting all your money in the arena pocket). we do have professional teams, what do you think the p-bruins and the pawsox are? they're just minor league. i don't think there's enough room for another major league basketball team here, considering pro basketball isn't quite as popular as it once was.

and i never meant that being boston's little sister is a good thing, but there are some things that we'll likely always be that way for... having a huge arena and attracting major league professional sports teams and huge concerts is one of them. but there are some things that being boston's little sister is good for. ticket prices aren't outrageous here. watching the p-bruins is affordable. more people can afford to go to trinity for a burger and beer before heading across the street. you do get the smaller concerts that may not be able to fill the garden but could easily fill the dunk. i'm not selling us short by saying any of this either. we have something going here and we'll only be able to draw more with the renovations. the dunk never was and never will be competing with the garden. i said before, we're competing first with worcester, second with mohegan sun, and third with hartford. if we can draw events out of mohegan and worcester, we'd be golden. and that's what the renovations should hopefully do.

Keep in mind I am looking at this from an economical perspective not from a fun perspective. Not sure I agree that we couldnt support another outdoor theater...say in South County. The issue or angle that I am comming in at is with this kind of thinking the state is stunted. If we dont come up with some of these things being done within the state the economy is going to continue to go nowhere. Shows in Tweater do nothing for out economy nor do shows in meadows nor do games in Gillette. See where I am comming from? If we continue to operate in this mode of..We dont need anything because Mass and CT have them...Then there will be nothing to pump into the local economy but higher taxes..period.

You can see this already...mass sales tax 5% CT sales tax 6% NH sales tax 0%, I have owned my house for about a year and already my property taxes have gone up. Not for nothing if I had paid more attention I would have waited and purchased over the border in MA but at this point I didnt and now need to settle and hope that someone with a vision gets into office in the near future because if there is one thing the state has that is the LACK of any vision whatsoever.

I also did comment on the major league thread and I believe I said that it would be a pretty cold day that the team, if one comes, would be in RI. most likely it will end up in MA or possibly CT.

[numonex]

The renovations will make the Dunk more competitive with the other locations in New England. But many of the touring show's historically go back to where they have been before or choose a location based on the contract or relationship with the management of the venue.

Since the state now owns the Dunk, there is a more professional management team in place. Not one staffed with relatives of the mayor. And the state is trying to market the Dunk and Convention Center as one building not seperate. This is attractive for events like the NCAA tournament and US Figure Skating championship which need addtional meeting rooms, practice facilities and function space.

It will be interesting to see how the renovated Dunk does in attracting concerts and national shows going forward.

yes I agree here and connecting the 2 is one good thing thats for sure. The combined space makes the convention center 250,000 sq feet (I believe I read somewhere). now that is only half of Boston but is larger that what Hartford has...that is a good thing. i guess the bottom line is that, I agree we arent going to compete with Boston but we should be able as heck to compete with Hartford/CT.

[runawayjim]

Keep in mind I am looking at this from an economical perspective not from a fun perspective. Not sure I agree that we couldnt support another outdoor theater...say in South County. The issue or angle that I am comming in at is with this kind of thinking the state is stunted. If we dont come up with some of these things being done within the state the economy is going to continue to go nowhere. Shows in Tweater do nothing for out economy nor do shows in meadows nor do games in Gillette. See where I am comming from? If we continue to operate in this mode of..We dont need anything because Mass and CT have them...Then there will be nothing to pump into the local economy but higher taxes..period.

You can see this already...mass sales tax 5% CT sales tax 6% NH sales tax 0%, I have owned my house for about a year and already my property taxes have gone up. Not for nothing if I had paid more attention I would have waited and purchased over the border in MA but at this point I didnt and now need to settle and hope that someone with a vision gets into office in the near future because if there is one thing the state has that is the LACK of any vision whatsoever.

I also did comment on the major league thread and I believe I said that it would be a pretty cold day that the team, if one comes, would be in RI. most likely it will end up in MA or possibly CT.

nowhere did i say that the state shouldn't be thinking of something. however, why try to compete with things that are already mainstays. why not try something new? RI needs something unique. competing with our neighbors, while a necessary evil, is just that... an evil. the whole region benefits from things.

visiting teams to gilette stay in providence (at least the NFL). providence is the closest major city to foxboro and mansfield.

there is more than just sports and entertainment to build an economy and i think we need something other than sports or entertainment. while it would be nice to have an ampitheatre and concerts in the state, it's not likely that it would happen. it'd be tough competition from already existing venues. what RI needs is more businesses, but to get that, we need to improve our business climate.

[Liamlunchtray]

How do you all feel about the new Grey paint on the building? Im not digging it. Hopefully there is more to come or it is just primer... At the moment Im almost missing the old poop brown.

[matt]

HA! Well, it now blends in with its surroundings more. I can't say I miss the brown, but maybe they could do something a little more creative.

[09/21/38]

I would call it cream color. they are trying to match the color of the convention center like they did with the same brick color for the connecting bridge and lobby expansion. It is growing on me.

[Liamlunchtray]

It's never going to be a pretty building no matter what they do, but it seems like maybe an accent stripe or painting the uprights an interesting contrasting color could do something. Its looks like a giant blob of concrete now. blah. Better yet, why not dryvit the crap out of it and turn it into a giant muffin or breakfast sandwich. Have some creativity people!

[f1rehead]

It's never going to be a pretty building no matter what they do, but it seems like maybe an accent stripe or painting the uprights an interesting contrasting color could do something. Its looks like a giant blob of concrete now. blah. Better yet, why not dryvit the crap out of it and turn it into a giant muffin or breakfast sandwich. Have some creativity people!

What it needs is pink frosting and sprinkles!

Mmm... donuts.

[CtownMikey]

too bad they cant surround the building with trees that grow narrow but very tall

[numonex]

nowhere did i say that the state shouldn't be thinking of something. however, why try to compete with things that are already mainstays. why not try something new? RI needs something unique. competing with our neighbors, while a necessary evil, is just that... an evil. the whole region benefits from things.

visiting teams to gilette stay in providence (at least the NFL). providence is the closest major city to foxboro and mansfield.

there is more than just sports and entertainment to build an economy and i think we need something other than sports or entertainment. while it would be nice to have an ampitheatre and concerts in the state, it's not likely that it would happen. it'd be tough competition from already existing venues. what RI needs is more businesses, but to get that, we need to improve our business climate.

I agree we need more businesses, big business, like a big HQ downtown...LOL. But that only goes so far but it is a given. What I am driving at is out of state spending dropping in RI...A rebirth of the tourest industry per say. The best money for an economy is money from outside that economy. More business would be great and it would add more jobs but the economic reviniew would be from the same ol area..Taxes and without diversity when things get tough the taxes get hiked.

I agree with a lot of what you say but we need more than that. You also have a point about doing something differant than our neighbors but we tend to throw that away from time to time (Six Flags ring a bell? They wanted to be in RI). With some creative thinking the climate in the state could really be turned around.

[runawayjim]

I agree we need more businesses, big business, like a big HQ downtown...LOL. But that only goes so far but it is a given. What I am driving at is out of state spending dropping in RI...A rebirth of the tourest industry per say. The best money for an economy is money from outside that economy. More business would be great and it would add more jobs but the economic reviniew would be from the same ol area..Taxes and without diversity when things get tough the taxes get hiked.

I agree with a lot of what you say but we need more than that. You also have a point about doing something differant than our neighbors but we tend to throw that away from time to time (Six Flags ring a bell? They wanted to be in RI). With some creative thinking the climate in the state could really be turned around.

6 flags also wanted to be in CT. they were playing the board to see where they got the best deal and that deal was buying up an existing larger amusement park and expanding it.

the tourist industry is important and one of the only major forms of income the state gets, but being in the northeast and not in the mountains, it's only 3 months of the year (the same 3 months an outdoor music ampitheatre would work). that's why i think we shouldn't discount the smaller tours and kiddie acts just yet. they're money makers year 'round.

increasing the tax base is not a bad thing. you make it seem like taxing large businesses and property is a bad thing. it's a necessary thing. the problem is the only people who pay enough taxes right now are the residents and that's where the problems are. we need to get bigger companies in here paying taxes. we have a TON of land being removed from the tax rolls because it's being bought up by the colleges. while they're important, we need businesses. they pay taxes. unfortunately, the tax climate for htem sucks, so we don't get anymore.

where do you think the money would come from if we had a place like tweeter center? it would be from the taxes. taxes are the only way a government gets money. the problem is, however, that they are currently only coming from residents and not enough from all these other businesses that the stupid government keeps giving tax breaks to.

[numonex]

where do you think the money would come from if we had a place like tweeter center? it would be from the taxes. taxes are the only way a government gets money. the problem is, however, that they are currently only coming from residents and not enough from all these other businesses that the stupid government keeps giving tax breaks to.

At first yes and that is a sacrifice I would be willing to make if it were to eventually turn and benefit the community and economy. You need to spend money to make money but right now we are spending money to........

On a side note...I finally paid a visit to the "raceino" in Lincoln...I was actually pretty impressed..The place is huge mind you have have never been to any of the real casinos. TW is really big inside and its done nice.

[Liamlunchtray]

[mental757]

OMG, that was exactly what I was thinking, but am not technologically advanced enough to do stuff like that!!!

lol

[runawayjim]

At first yes and that is a sacrifice I would be willing to make if it were to eventually turn and benefit the community and economy. You need to spend money to make money but right now we are spending money to........

On a side note...I finally paid a visit to the "raceino" in Lincoln...I was actually pretty impressed..The place is huge mind you have have never been to any of the real casinos. TW is really big inside and its done nice.

you missed my point. the revenue the state would get from a venue like that would be from the taxes. do you think people who go to mansfield to concerts are dumping money into the local economy by any other means? the only other revenue would be hotels, but again, the state gets the money from the taxes there as well.

[numonex]

you missed my point. the revenue the state would get from a venue like that would be from the taxes. do you think people who go to mansfield to concerts are dumping money into the local economy by any other means? the only other revenue would be hotels, but again, the state gets the money from the taxes there as well.

Yes taxes but taxes at a %rate not raising taxes. I think yoou missed my point. More people spending more locally at the same or lower tax rate.