Greater Spartanburg Projects & Developments

[huck94]

InterContinental Hotels will open a new 96 room Holiday Inn Express on Hwy 221 in Spartanburg at the intersection of I-85. With all the energy that has been happinging on the corridor between Greenville and Spartanburg, it is good to see some things going on on the Spartanburg/Cherokee County side. Hopefully, this will help the Upstate Corporate Park that's not far away.

ARTICLE in the HJ.

Seems as if the other hotel they just built there was a Holiday Inn Exp. and then changed to a Hampton Inn? Seems strange to build another one.

[Spartan]

I'm surprised there are not more hotels like that going up along the new 85. There were quite a few motels along the old 85, many of which still operate. Also, at 96 rooms that makes it a rather small hotel.

[spartanburgh]

This sounds like a hotel that should go up on the old tire store site beside Papa Sams downtown. I think a location like this downtown would be a better fit for the Inn. It could look like the one at Westgate and be a much needed addition to Spartanburg.

[Spartan]

I would hope that any hotel that locates downtown would want to make it look more unique than one out by the interstate. I agree that we need a nother one downtown and that would be a very good location.

[hub-city]

Spartanburg City Council will be reviewing all current projects either in the implementation or planning stage at their meeting tomorrow. This ARTICLE in the HJ is a good resource to get a quick overview of projects that are currently on the boards.

Edited January 28, 2008 by hub-city

[Spartan]

Here is a rundown of this very handy list. I've taken the liberty of highlighting some of the ones that I felt were particularly important. These are capital projects that the city is involved in. Some of these I had not heard of. The connector road from the Marriott to N Converse St is particualrly interesting. I would like to know if that is a part of the 'new urban' village that we keep hearing rumors about, because it was called for in the downtown master plan.

Speaking of which, does anyone know if they are ever going to adopt the master plan?

• Improvements to the Spartanburg Downtown Memorial Airport
  
  
• Reimbursing developers of the Carrington up to $200,000 for public infrastructure improvements. Woodburn Green LLC is expected to invest about $10 million in the project.
  
  
• City Attorney Cathy McCabe is expected to recommend that council extend terms of service for those serving on the city's boards and commissions - which now are limited to two terms.
  
  
• The Duncan Park outfield wall replacement should be complete by the end of February. Final cost estimates on the stadium's renovation should be determined by Sept. 1, and finalizing a funding plan should be finished by the end of December. Renovations wouldn't likely begin until summer 2009.
  
  
• Duncan Park-- replace tennis courts, stadium restroom resoration -75k
  
  
• Partners for Active Living to install "share the road" arrows along Spring Street and Marion Avenue- The $20,000 project should be complete by March.
  
  
• "The city is working with McMillan Smith and Partners to finalize the scope of work and determine the space needs for a new city hall, and police and fire department offices. A contract on the planning phase is expected to be awarded at the Feb. 25 meeting, and that phase likely will take six to nine months."
  
  
• Arkwright landfill closure/cap. design to be complete in september, Work to start in 2009 3.5million
  
  
• DuPre House rennovations to begin this summer
  
  
• New parking garage at Renaissance Park- Construction on the estimated $11.5 million garage could start later this year. The city is expected to commit $8.25 million toward the project, and USC Upstate will commit $3 million.
  
  
• Connector road from the Marriott at Renaissance Park to North Converse Street. $2 million, USC Upstate $900,000 and city hospitality taxes financing $1.1 million.
  
  
• $6 million C.C Woodson Recreation Center.
  
  
• "The East Main Street beautification project, including narrowing the lanes between Pine and Dean streets, is scheduled to begin in May and is expected to take about four months. The $1.2 million project, financed by the city, the Spartanburg Area Transportation Study, private funds and the Noble Tree Foundation, will include bike lanes on both lanes, installation of a 14-foot turn lane and large canopies of trees on each side of the street."
  
  
• Design plans for new dressing rooms, concession facilities and improvements at Barnet Park, estimated at $1.2 million, is expected to begin by September.
  

[Sparkleman]

I think the city is pushing in the right direction but I question a couple of decisions:

1) Why not knock the Dupre house down and get it over with? Even if it is restored, what are we gonna do with it, have tours through it?

2) While we are at it, why not tear Duncan Park down or make it into little league fields? If you are a SHS baseball player, does the thought of getting on a bus every day to practice or play a game appeal to you? Thats a combined 40 extra minutes of practice both ways for the added travel. I have questioned District 7's motives for years, but this decision is about as crazy as anything they have ever done.

3) New parking garage at Renaissance Park- We are not filling the ones up that we currently have, why do we need another?

It just seems there are better things we could be doing with the $$$ that we are taxing the fool out of the citizens of this county.

[hub-city]

I doubt tht the baseball team will practice too much over there. don't they have parctice fields at the school?

The garage would be part of the master plan to help the Marriott, Montgomery building (if anything substantial is ever done with it), Chapman Cultural Center, and most importantly, provide parking for the new USC Upstate business school. I think it is a good move.

I'm not overly attached to the Dupre house either.

[Spartan]

1. The DuPre house will become the Spartanburg CVB Office.
   
   
2. 40 minutes!? How slow do you drive? At most it would take 20 minutes (10 min each way), and thats including getting stopped at both red lights and having to wait at some stop signs. Right now there are practice fields at SHS, but they have a new facilities plan and that may change in the future. I was under the impression they would be practicing there too. Besides all of that, where else do you propose they play ball?
   
   Duncan Park Stadium is the oldest minor league baseball park in the nation, its historic value alone makes it worth saving. The fact that Dist 7 and the City are joining forces to save it shows that my fellow Spartans are, infact, capable of saving history instead of continuing to let our past be destroyed like most of the rest of our city.
   
   
3. The new garage is for the USC Upstate downtown campus and presumably people will use it for CCC and the future urban village that will be constructed behind it. What's wrong with building the infrastructure ahead of time?
   

Also, these projects are all City funded. County money isn't being spent as far as I can tell. How are these projects a waste of money? What could the City be doing better?

I think the city is pushing in the right direction but I question a couple of decisions:

1) Why not knock the Dupre house down and get it over with? Even if it is restored, what are we gonna do with it, have tours through it?

2) While we are at it, why not tear Duncan Park down or make it into little league fields? If you are a SHS baseball player, does the thought of getting on a bus every day to practice or play a game appeal to you? Thats a combined 40 extra minutes of practice both ways for the added travel. I have questioned District 7's motives for years, but this decision is about as crazy as anything they have ever done.

3) New parking garage at Renaissance Park- We are not filling the ones up that we currently have, why do we need another?

It just seems there are better things we could be doing with the $$$ that we are taxing the fool out of the citizens of this county.

[Sparkleman]

What is a CVB office?

Hey Spartan, I care about history as much as anyone and I have been going to games at Duncan Park since the late 60's. That said, you can only spruce something up so much before it is time to start over. If you were to go to Duncan Park and chip paint off the railings, you'd find perhaps 10 coats. The place is literally falling down and 75K is not gonna help much. I went to SHS and and running out the back door to practice and play a real games beats driving to Duncan Park and playing at the "historic" yard. Ok, lets say you can dress at SHS, then get on the bus, drive through town, get to Duncan Park and get off the bus and hit the field and play the game, then drive back, shower and dress (as you cannot do this at Duncan Park unless its raining) and go home. Thats a lot of lost time. I drive a truck very fast through town to get where I'm going. If you can get a full school bus over to Duncan Park in 10 minutes then perhaps you should be driving it. On top of that, SHS perenially sucks in baseball, so why give them a new field? Give it to the little leagues as they are the ones that are always getting screwed on the east side. Other than a field at Hillbrook park and the 2 at Duncan Park, where are the other little league fields in the city. All that $$$ to fix up Duncan Park could be used to level it and create a new little league/softball complex.

IMHO, the city could be using some of this $$$ to fix the roads,the bridges, and the parks in town. Or is that what the road tax is for? No I forgot, we are going to use hospitality tax money to fix up our parks to attract people to our town (is this really true?). I'm getting confused here because there as so many taxes that its hard to know what is used for what or if it is even used for what its supposed to be for. The city could also be using some $$$ to fix the water pipes and sewer system that break on a constant basis (see the Garner Road fiasco). In other words, there are a lot of ways to use that money to benefit everyone in the city.

[GSP Tiger]

What is a CVB office?

Convention and Visitor Bereau, an organzation to promote Spartanburg as a destination.

[Spartan]

What is a CVB office?

Hey Spartan, I care about history as much as anyone and I have been going to games at Duncan Park since the late 60's. That said, you can only spruce something up so much before it is time to start over. If you were to go to Duncan Park and chip paint off the railings, you'd find perhaps 10 coats. The place is literally falling down and 75K is not gonna help much. I went to SHS and and running out the back door to practice and play a real games beats driving to Duncan Park and playing at the "historic" yard. Ok, lets say you can dress at SHS, then get on the bus, drive through town, get to Duncan Park and get off the bus and hit the field and play the game, then drive back, shower and dress (as you cannot do this at Duncan Park unless its raining) and go home. Thats a lot of lost time. I drive a truck very fast through town to get where I'm going. If you can get a full school bus over to Duncan Park in 10 minutes then perhaps you should be driving it. On top of that, SHS perenially sucks in baseball, so why give them a new field? Give it to the little leagues as they are the ones that are always getting screwed on the east side. Other than a field at Hillbrook park and the 2 at Duncan Park, where are the other little league fields in the city. All that $$$ to fix up Duncan Park could be used to level it and create a new little league/softball complex.

IMHO, the city could be using some of this $$$ to fix the roads,the bridges, and the parks in town. Or is that what the road tax is for? No I forgot, we are going to use hospitality tax money to fix up our parks to attract people to our town (is this really true?). I'm getting confused here because there as so many taxes that its hard to know what is used for what or if it is even used for what its supposed to be for. The city could also be using some $$$ to fix the water pipes and sewer system that break on a constant basis (see the Garner Road fiasco). In other words, there are a lot of ways to use that money to benefit everyone in the city.

I completely disagree. Any history is worth preserving if it is possible to do so. Its what makes our city unique. The $250k that will be used on the entire project should help quite a bit, and it sounds like it will be done right, as opposed to new coats of paint on an old building. That $75k is just for the tennis courts and the restrooms. And please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the plans include fixing up the other ballfields in Duncan Park. You seem to forget that this is being financed only in part by hospitality taxes (which are also paid by visitors to the city). It also uses funds from District 7, grants, tax credits and private sources. This is a community effort, not just a city project.

Lets not forget about the 4 baseball fields at the Southport Rd Complex, and one in Beaumont. I'm not sure if any of the others that I can think of that aren't in schools are actually City parks. I do agree that we need more parks with ballfields on the east side of town though. That should be funded through hospitality taxes too.

The bridges and county roads are being fixed up, but that is with COUNTY funding. I am planning a new thread that will detail those projects as best as I can. That $25 fee is being used for its exact purpose. Just remember that it takes a while to plan and design new bridges. They have to deal with all kinds of regulations (like how much weight the thing can support, and how it minimize the impact on the environment, etc).

[Sparkleman]

I don't know if the funding includes the other parks or not, but I still feel this is a waste of $$$ especially when folks realize that a part of the taxes they pay (education) are going towards this. I believe District 7 already pays Wofford College around $35000 per season to play at Gibbs Stadium (that was the rate 5 years ago so I'm sure its still around that). Does any other school district have athletic expenses such as this? Look at any other school district 1-6 and tell me who incurs these kinds of costs.

Another part I don't like about the hospitality tax is that it affects everyone, not just visitors to the city. Anytime you go out to eat, an extra 2% goes into the city's coffers. I just don't understand why we are trying to market ourselves as a destination city. Say you come here on business and stay at the Marriot for a night or two (summer or winter), what is there really to do? You can hit the Beacon for lunch, Justin's for dinner, and have a KKD for breakfast. Other than eat, what is there to do? I guess you can go down to the proposed CVB down by the Magnolia St. cemetary and look around at an old house or maybe tour the train depot or go catch the Vikings over at Duncan Park if they have a game. What I am getting at is there is way too much taxing and not enough business and money management taking place. We had to create a road tax because someone or department couldn't budget what needed doing with the money avaiable. This is one of the smallest states in the country, but also one of the highest taxed.

Don't get me wrong as I love Spartanburg. I have been here my whole life and chose to stay here for personal and professional reasons. Its just lately that the whole tax thing is getting out of hand and in my mind some bad decisions are being made.

By the way, has anyone seen that cow pasture at Beaumont that they call a baseball/softball field? Its a disgrace to even think of it as such. I played on it in the 70's and it was brutal then.

[hub-city]

Most of the things that the hospitality tax goes to also benefits residents as well.

As far as a destination city... Spartanburg is the destination city for the Miss SC pageant, the Shrine Bowl, PBA bowlers, BMW autofest, BMW charity classic golf tournament, numerous conventions and conferences, assault on Mt. Mitchell and just about anything Republican. I don't think that anyone thinks that Spartanburg will ever be a tourist destination, but it can be a destination.

As far as Duncan park, I think the deal with district 7 is a great fit at this time. SHS is land locked and really does not have room for much more over there. Gaffney is building a multi million dollar stadium. I can't remember the exact cost, but even at 2 million, it would take district 7 57 years to equal that cost at your annual $35000 figure.

The county hospitalty tax will go to parks, but the Spartanburg took over parks in the city limit a year or so ago and have there own master plan for those. If I can afford a $100.00 meal, then i can afford for $2.00 of that to go to my community, and not just goverment. The fact that te hspitality tax also affects visitors to our county as well as residents is a good thing to me.

[Spartan]

More importantly, Spartanburg can be a great place to live. Its pretty good as it is, but with 2% (which is maybe 5-7 cents any time you dine out?) coming from everyone including visitors (there are more than you think), we have a revenue stream to make the place that much more enjoyable. Its not possible to ask visitors only to pay for our local infrastructure, and to that end its not right to not ask residents to help improve their own city. Right now we're fixing the large problems. One of those is that our own citizens often complain about there being nothing to do. Well, how do you fix that? There are many ways, but the hospitality tax can go towards physical improvements like new parks, public art, or whatever will make our city more attractive and actually create those things to do (and I'm sure many other things too). If downtown can become a great place for Spartans to go and walk around or hang out, then we will have truly accomplished something even if we don't get a single new tourist because of it.

The City's hospitality tax may not pay for new parks. I have no idea. But the County's hospitality tax is financing a very ambitious new parks plan, which is discussed here.

The road fee, which is different from a tax, was created because SCDOT and our all knowing General Assembly doesn't have enough money or wherewithal to maintain the roads we have across the state, much less the bridges and other roads that aren't state-maintained in Spartanburg County. The results of that fee are very obvious, and are much needed. New bridges are being designed as we speak. You'll note that while people voted for anti-road fee candidates for County Council, the fee is still there. The reason is because when you look at the needs of the entire county, asking people to give up $25 to help improve our roads and repair our bridges seems like a lower cost than having people die on 50 year old, unstable bridges. Even in its simplest form, government has the responsibility to maintain a quality transportation system.

I am against unnecessary taxation, and most certainly over-taxation. But I see taxes like these that benefit our community as a good thing, and I will gladly pay those. We can see very tangible results from these particular taxes. The fact is that our city has not gotten enough money in the past to do what it needs to do to make it a great place to live and to attract new residents. That is finally starting to change.

--

As for Dist 7's arrangement with Wofford, I don't know what the dollar amount is for that. I assume that was preferable to building a new stadium, since I'm not really sure where you could build one in District 7. As for the cost to repair Duncan Park, we'll just have to agree to disagree on that. I think its worth every penny to save a historic national landmark.

[Sparkleman]

Spartanburg already is a great place to live and as far as I am concerned, always has been. Otherwise I would have left (which I did briefly but returned). I frankly am just tired of being taxed. You can call the road fee a fee, a charge, a bill, or whatever you want, but it is still a tax as everyone pays it and there is nothing we can do about it. True, we voted in 3 new guys to get rid of the "fee" but nothing has changed as these knuckleheads are no different than the ones that were voted out. I am not trying to be argumentative here, but are the roads around the county any better that you can tell? I can't but maybe its because I drive a 97 F-150 and not a new car. I am trying to think of a bridge that has been repaired or replaced in the last 5 years, but nothing is coming to mind.

Is there a difference in the city hospitality tax and the county one or are they the same? I have no idea but I do know that restuarant owners both in the city and county have complained over the tax because they have had to raise prices. I assume its because they have to collect the tax and then pay it back to the city (which as a small business owner that I am takes time and we don't have a lot of that).

I agree with you to disagree over the deal at Duncan Park but you're gonna win out as they are going to go ahead with the deal. Whether it really pans out only time will tell.

**Spartan-I have an idea about space on the east side. Should I start a new thread or tuck into a pre-exisiting one?

Thanks and I enjoy the good conversation here.

[hub-city]

The new bridge on Garner road is being funded by the $25.00 fee, and there are a ton of newly paved streets all throughour the county.

Thanks for the conversation. Tell your friends and collegues about the site. (unless they are goupstate posters....some of them are just flat crazy!!!!!!!!) Just kidding, all views are welcomed in my book.

[Spartan]

No worries Sparkleman. I always enjoy a spirited debate If we all agreed on everything then there would be no purpose for UrbanPlanet! Feel free to start a new thread for your idea. Like hub-city said, all are welcome. I suspect many of the GoUpstate crows would not last long, as we like to encourage actual conversation/debate/discussion here, rather than name calling and finger pointing that goes on on the GoUpstate forums. We all welcome newcomers, especially those with a different opinion than ours!

As to my response:

A "tax" is typically based on a per-dollar amount, so the amount you pay varies. A fee is a unit cost, essentially.

Also, I work in the planning industry, and I can tell you that you just don't go and build a bridge. You have to come up with a design for each one, and civil engineers have to do a lot of detailed work takes a long time to do, and you have to get it approved by licensed people, and presumably DHEC, and probably other people too so that you can be sure it meets environmental and structural standards. All of this takes a lot more time than most people think it does. And on top of that, you can't replace them all at once. There are several bridges that are being funded now, according to the county budget, that I know are being targeted for replacement by the road fee. For example, the bridge Dairy Ridge Rd (near Croft State Park) is being replaced from when it was washed out by a flood several years ago. It won't be complete until 2011. Its not due to delay in anything other than getting the road fee in place. If not for that, then it could have been 10-20 years before it was replaced.

Resurfacing on the other hand is done much quicker, I know of many roads around the county that have been resurfaced- though I admittedly don't know where the funding comes from for them.

There is a difference in city vs county hospitality taxes, but I don't know what it is. I do know that the City has had one for a while, and the County just passed one a few months ago to finance the County Parks & Rec Master Plan that I mentioned earlier. What I don't know is if the County's tax is in addition to the City's or if the jurisdictions have separate taxation authority when it comes to hospitality taxes. If anyone can shed some light on this, please share!

Spartanburg already is a great place to live and as far as I am concerned, always has been. Otherwise I would have left (which I did briefly but returned). I frankly am just tired of being taxed. You can call the road fee a fee, a charge, a bill, or whatever you want, but it is still a tax as everyone pays it and there is nothing we can do about it. True, we voted in 3 new guys to get rid of the "fee" but nothing has changed as these knuckleheads are no different than the ones that were voted out. I am not trying to be argumentative here, but are the roads around the county any better that you can tell? I can't but maybe its because I drive a 97 F-150 and not a new car. I am trying to think of a bridge that has been repaired or replaced in the last 5 years, but nothing is coming to mind.

Is there a difference in the city hospitality tax and the county one or are they the same? I have no idea but I do know that restuarant owners both in the city and county have complained over the tax because they have had to raise prices. I assume its because they have to collect the tax and then pay it back to the city (which as a small business owner that I am takes time and we don't have a lot of that).

I agree with you to disagree over the deal at Duncan Park but you're gonna win out as they are going to go ahead with the deal. Whether it really pans out only time will tell.

**Spartan-I have an idea about space on the east side. Should I start a new thread or tuck into a pre-exisiting one?

Thanks and I enjoy the good conversation here.

[Hemlock86]

No worries Sparkleman. I always enjoy a spirited debate If we all agreed on everything then there would be no purpose for UrbanPlanet! Feel free to start a new thread for your idea. Like hub-city said, all are welcome. I suspect many of the GoUpstate crows would not last long, as we like to encourage actual conversation/debate/discussion here, rather than name calling and finger pointing that goes on on the GoUpstate forums. We all welcome newcomers, especially those with a different opinion than ours!

As to my response:

A "tax" is typically based on a per-dollar amount, so the amount you pay varies. A fee is a unit cost, essentially.

Also, I work in the planning industry, and I can tell you that you just don't go and build a bridge. You have to come up with a design for each one, and civil engineers have to do a lot of detailed work takes a long time to do, and you have to get it approved by licensed people, and presumably DHEC, and probably other people too so that you can be sure it meets environmental and structural standards. All of this takes a lot more time than most people think it does. And on top of that, you can't replace them all at once. There are several bridges that are being funded now, according to the county budget, that I know are being targeted for replacement by the road fee. For example, the bridge Dairy Ridge Rd (near Croft State Park) is being replaced from when it was washed out by a flood several years ago. It won't be complete until 2011. Its not due to delay in anything other than getting the road fee in place. If not for that, then it could have been 10-20 years before it was replaced.

Resurfacing on the other hand is done much quicker, I know of many roads around the county that have been resurfaced- though I admittedly don't know where the funding comes from for them.

There is a difference in city vs county hospitality taxes, but I don't know what it is. I do know that the City has had one for a while, and the County just passed one a few months ago to finance the County Parks & Rec Master Plan that I mentioned earlier. What I don't know is if the County's tax is in addition to the City's or if the jurisdictions have separate taxation authority when it comes to hospitality taxes. If anyone can shed some light on this, please share!

Whether it's a tax or a fee, if it's a dollar out of my pocket it's all the same to me. Having said that let's get real and look at the actual cost. The hated road fee amounts to just under .07 cents per day. Surely this is a small price to pay to have safe roads & bridges. Look at your tax bill next time it comes is the mail. Of the entire county budget only 16% can be used for discretionany expenses. Road improvements are a part of this, which is not much to work with. The rest is designated for schools, the Air Port, Library, Jail, etc. Our roads have suffered over the years as a consequence because there was no money to fix them. We are now playing catch up. Be patient.

As for the 2% hospitality tax, I probably spend on average $300 per month eating out or $3600 per year. This amounts to only $72.00 per year/ $6.00 per month or .20 per day in additional tax. I don't think either of these is going to cause any serious financial hardship to anyone plus it is shared by visitors who recieve no benefits. Sounds like a plan to me.

[breed]

This is one of the smallest states in the country, but also one of the highest taxed.

After reading this statement, I did a little digging. Anecdotally, I don't know of anyone who thinks of SC as having high taxes. In fact, pretty much universally, everyone I've spoken with thinks that SC has very low taxes.

Did a little digging... we rank 35th in the nation in tax burden, which accounts for the impacts of state, local and federal taxes. North Carolina and Georgia rank 24th and 28th, respectively.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxdata/show/335.html

Not that I am in favor of unnecessary taxation, but I just wanted to rebut a statement that I had doubts about.

[hub-city]

It may just be all the grand opening specials, but there was a ton of people at the Burlington Coat Factory this afternoon when I drove by. It was great to see that parking lot filled with cars again.

[Spartan]

Isn't that at the old Home Depot?

[hub-city]

Isn't that at the old Home Depot?

Yep. Combine that with Jason's Deli, Baskin Robbins, Monterey's, Buffet City, Music and Arts, plus others, that whole development is about filled. It looks like there may be one part of the old Home Depot that Burlington didn't use and may be for lease, and maybe a few parcels on the side.

[Spartan]

Thats good to know. Spartanburg really does a great job of filling its vacant big boxes.

[Sparkleman]

Has anyone noticed that there is a 15,000 square foot building for lease/sale across from the Hub Bub building? I assume it used to be part of Spartan Grain. Any ideas on what would be good there?