Main St Greenville vs Main St Columbia

[Spartan]

^It might. IMO the biggest obstacle to that is the Gervais/Assembly intersection. Its humongous and a deterrent to pedestrians. I think that they need to restrict left turns from all directions at this intersection and extend the medians for pedestrian refuge islands. Of course then you have to walk by the Capitol Center tower, which is a very harsh pedestrian environment, but if the new tower becomes what they claim it will be, then it might be enough of a draw to where that is not an issue.

[gman430]

I'm glad to see both cities getting developments on Main Street. Columbia has the highrise at Main at Gervais while Greenville has the Courtyard by Marriott and Washington Square. They will be nothing short of positive for both cities. I know people from both cities like to bash each other over which one is better, but in fact neither one is better than the other. Both contribute to this state's economy greatly and if one were to fail then all of South Carolina would be in trouble. Kind of cool to see both Main Streets getting Dunkin Donuts even though Greenville's will be the flagship store.

[krazeeboi]

Do you feel that the new tower at Main and Gervais will help Main Street more or help Gervais more in terms of getting people out of the Vista?

[GvilleSC]

There's a lot of talk about streetscaping breathing life back into places, but how do you all see this working? Of course, one must come first: either the development or the streetscaping. The new look will certainly make things more attractive, but do you all see it working magic by itself?

In Greenville, North Main from the Elford Street intersection (the one just past the Landmark building) to Academy Street was completed a few years back. Since that time, no new investment has taken place on that block and currently has very little activity due to the functions and nature of the buildings lining the street. It's also relevant that during this time and continuing today, all of the activity was focused along the River, Augusta St and Main St in the West End, much like how Cola's development is focused mainly in the Vista. Where Greenville has first landscaped in the past, the City always was working with a developer on a public-private partnership that has led to the ultimate revitalization of the immediate area. For example, Hyatt Regency, Peace Center for the Performing Arts, Fluor Field at the West End, etc...

So, I guess my question is this: is Columbia working on some public-private partnerships that will increase street-level activity or does it seem that the streetscaping is more of an improvement for the current conditions and not meant to spur heavy investment at street level? I mean ideally it will increase activity AFTER 5, but nothing's guaranteed. Does that make sense?

[krazeeboi]

I understand what you're saying, but there is a history in Columbia of investment following streetscaping projects. I think Lady Street is probably the most recent example of that. I think it started with Renaissance Plaza, and then several restaurants followed, most notably Wild Wings. American Apparel set up shop. The "Shoppes at Lady" was announced around the time the streetscaping was completed, and now a pizza joint, SpringHill Suites, LEED-certified luxury loft development, and parking garage with retail space fronting the street are under construction. The first phase of the Main Street streetscaping is also another example, with Meridian, First Citizens, Barringer building renovation into apartments, and conversion of the Palmetto building into a boutique Sheraton following that project. Now there's the new tower under construction and the Dunkin' Donuts. Even along the stretch of Main that's being streetscaped now, there are projects that started before the 2nd phase of the streetscaping, like the 1520 Main condo project, the McCrory building redevelopment (which is just plodding along now), and the 1537 Main renovation (supposed to be home to a posh members-only club, but failed). The Nickelodeon Theatre also has plans to move into the old Fox Theatre building at 1607 Main in early 2009. And of course there's Gervais Street, where the streetscaping was fundamental to turning the Vista around.

I'd say the only streetscapings that didn't produce heavy investment afterwards were on Lincoln Street (which was mainly for aesthetic purposes, having the convention center and Colonial Life Arena located along the street) and the Five Points streetscaping which was already an active area.

[GvilleSC]

I'm not sure about the Barringer building, but I don't think Meridian and First Citizen added all that much to the street level scene, which is ultimately the goal is it not? The Sheraton is a successful spin-off. In this topic, are Vista development really relevant? There's so much momentum there that it can't solely be attributed to the streetscaping. Likewise, I wouldn't say that the streetscaping produced the huge change in Greenville's West End, the momentum from Falls Park and Fluor Field led the way there (which produced the streetscaping).

[Spartan]

FC and Meridian really frustrated me with their poor urban design. Greenville has some sort of design standards for its Main Street that Columbia does not, and that definitely plays a part in it. I think things are sloooowly starting to come together though. The streetscape will help a lot because the old design looked tired and worn out. I think its one of those situations where there is a critical mass located on Main Street with lots of business offices and a growing residential population, they just need to get a good spark to get things going.

[krazeeboi]

I'm not sure about the Barringer building, but I don't think Meridian and First Citizen added all that much to the street level scene, which is ultimately the goal is it not? The Sheraton is a successful spin-off. In this topic, are Vista development really relevant? There's so much momentum there that it can't solely be attributed to the streetscaping. Likewise, I wouldn't say that the streetscaping produced the huge change in Greenville's West End, the momentum from Falls Park and Fluor Field led the way there (which produced the streetscaping).

[CorgiMatt]

A new business just announced for the former Capitol (their misspelling, not mine) City News and Maps's place - a store that will appeal to the downtown worker as well as the tourist. The completed streetscaping and the streetscaping now under construction are mentioned as catalysts in the attached article, although I have read and have heard experts say out loud that studies show streetscaping in and of itself has little to do with businesses locating in any given area; but surely it can't hurt, except during the construction period. But I've said so many times that I don't see why the focus on one particular street as a measurement of the health of a downtown the size of Columbia's. It will come around, but if large sections of it are institutional, so be it. The banks and lawyers have to locate somewhere.

http://www.thestate.com/business/story/542183.html

[GvilleSC]

But I've said so many times that I don't see why the focus on one particular street as a measurement of the health of a downtown the size of Columbia's. It will come around, but if large sections of it are institutional, so be it. The banks and lawyers have to locate somewhere.

http://www.thestate.com/business/story/542183.html

[CorgiMatt]

I'm tiring of comparisons period. Columbia's Main Street has a LONG way to go before it has the kind of vibrant atmosphere that Greenville's Main Street has. A long, long way. Now, name some streets in downtown Greenville's other nightlife districts so we can make some more comparisons.

[krazeeboi]

Now, name some streets in downtown Greenville's other nightlife districts so we can make some more comparisons.

[GvilleSC]

I'm tiring of comparisons period. Columbia's Main Street has a LONG way to go before it has the kind of vibrant atmosphere that Greenville's Main Street has. A long, long way. Now, name some streets in downtown Greenville's other nightlife districts so we can make some more comparisons.

[sonofaque86]

I wish Main St. in Columbia could be renamed so people will stop comparing the two and focus on the other bustling districts. But, since it's not, I think Columbia is making progress since this thread was started!

[BrasilnSC]

I feel that Columbia's Main St has made quite a bit progress just in the past few years. The Museum of Art, 3 new towers, several residential developments (Barringer, Capital Places, Tapps), new Sheraton with 2 bars (one on the rooftop) and a restaurant, Starbucks, and Dunkin Donuts....that's all I can remember right now. There were of course a few setbacks, Capital Newstand and Lourie's closing and Scana moving out of the Palmetto Center in '09. But over all I think Main St is slowly becoming a destination, which is quite a challenge when you sort of have to compete with places like the Vista and 5 points that are already entertainment districts and continue to attract retailers, restaurants, hotels, residential, and commercial developments. These things take time and I think Main St will get there eventually, especially if there is some kind of connection with the Vista (corner lots at Assembly and Gervais come to mind).

Just out of curiosity, how long has it taken Greenville's Main St. to become what it is today?

[gman430]

Just out of curiosity, how long has it taken Greenville's Main St. to become what it is today?

[GvilleSC]

Like Citylife said, Greenville's Main Street has been 26 years in the making. You must realize, though, that was from complete scratch. Columbia's Main Street is already head and shoulders above where Greenville sat in the early 80's. There's at least offices and life.

[CorgiMatt]

From the Vista to Five Points covers a lot of territory. Columbia's Main Street from Laurel to Blossom alone (We tend to forget about the night spots, restaurants and Nickelodeon Theater from the capitol to Blossom.) is longer than from the City Center portion to the West End portion of Greenville's Main Street, and when you consider that all you do is cross a very short bridge over a stream from one of those to the other, I'm not sure what makes them two separate districts. I'm not saying that defensively or sensitively. For me it just goes back to the why question - why compare, when the arrangement of the two cities' commercial/entertainment corridors are so different?

Since the completion of the three blocks of Columbia's Main Street that have already been streetscaped, we have gotten The Whig (a bar in the basement of Number 1 Main, which is about 10-12 stories tall), Duncan Donuts (halfway ready to open), Uptown (a gift shop that's halfway ready to open), First Citizen's Bank, the Tower at Main & Gervais (under construction), a new newsstand, Birds on a Wire (breakfast and lunch only), WOLO-TV, Meridian (17 stories tall), Wish (jewelry/gift shop), Salon something or something Salon (hairstylist), the Barringer Building apartments (75 units), the Sheraton with Starbucks and other restaurants, a new City of Columbia headquarters, and a $10 million renovation to the Marriott. That's 15 things off the top of my head. During that same time the Vista has far out-boomed Main Street if you don't give extra weight to Main's highrises; after all, if you're talking about square footage, the completed blocks on Columbia's Main Street might have out-boomed every other three-block area in the state. The block of Main from Taylor to Blanding has the most potential for dense retail square footage when that block is done, and they have made a lot of progress on that block.

[GvilleSC]

From the Vista to Five Points covers a lot of territory. Columbia's Main Street from Laurel to Blossom alone (We tend to forget about the night spots, restaurants and Nickelodeon Theater from the capitol to Blossom.) is longer than from the City Center portion to the West End portion of Greenville's Main Street, and when you consider that all you do is cross a very short bridge over a stream from one of those to the other I'm not sure what makes them two separate districts. I'm not saying that defensively or sensitively. For me it just goes back to the why question - why compare, when the arrangement of the two cities' commercial/entertainment corridors are so different?

[krazeeboi]

I think projects like the Marriott Courtyard and RiverPlace are slowly but surely erasing the border between Main Street and the West End, although they both will retain their different architectural flavors. I don't view that as a bad thing at all.

[gman430]

From the Vista to Five Points covers a lot of territory. Columbia's Main Street from Laurel to Blossom alone (We tend to forget about the night spots, restaurants and Nickelodeon Theater from the capitol to Blossom.) is longer than from the City Center portion to the West End portion of Greenville's Main Street, and when you consider that all you do is cross a very short bridge over a stream from one of those to the other, I'm not sure what makes them two separate districts. I'm not saying that defensively or sensitively. For me it just goes back to the why question - why compare, when the arrangement of the two cities' commercial/entertainment corridors are so different?

Since the completion of the three blocks of Columbia's Main Street that have already been streetscaped, we have gotten The Whig (a bar in the basement of Number 1 Main, which is about 10-12 stories tall), Duncan Donuts (halfway ready to open), Uptown (a gift shop that's halfway ready to open), First Citizen's Bank, the Tower at Main & Gervais (under construction), a new newsstand, Birds on a Wire (breakfast and lunch only), WOLO-TV, Meridian (17 stories tall), Wish (jewelry/gift shop), Salon something or something Salon (hairstylist), the Barringer Building apartments (75 units), the Sheraton with Starbucks and other restaurants, a new City of Columbia headquarters, and a $10 million renovation to the Marriott. That's 15 things off the top of my head. During that same time the Vista has far out-boomed Main Street if you don't give extra weight to Main's highrises; after all, if you're talking about square footage, the completed blocks on Columbia's Main Street might have out-boomed every other three-block area in the state. The block of Main from Taylor to Blanding has the most potential for dense retail square footage when that block is done, and they have made a lot of progress on that block.

[gman430]

How does Greenville's success at connections make its case for those two districts void? Before the West End's rebirth, 2 blocks existed between the activity spots of City Center and the West End (Broad Street at Main, and the West End market).

[krazeeboi]

Yes, they are very close together but they are two separate districts. One is more modern and has highrises while the other is historic and has no highrises.

[GvilleSC]

The change is noticeable though. Simple things, such as the street lighting changes, as well as the nature of tenants along the streets. The West End has a much higher percentage of galleries and studios. If you're observant, the sidewalks are very different in the West End. The City Center sees no brick (except at the Peace Center & court square) in the sidewalks, but the West End has extensive use. Greenville thrives on its details. I guess infrequent visitors or those who haven't visited in a while may not remember such subtleties that define the spaces, but they are there.

Citylife-- also, while it's not a part of the main downtown core, West Greenville is emerging through its revitalization as an urban entertainment district-- focusing on artist spaces. It's not quite there yet to rival the CBD, but the open gallery nights and other such events seem to be helping usher this area into a new day.

[goodbye]

...Citylife-- also, while it's not a part of the main downtown core, West Greenville is emerging through its revitalization as an urban entertainment district-- focusing on artist spaces. It's not quite there yet to rival the CBD, but the open gallery nights and other such events seem to be helping usher this area into a new day.