Charlotte Off Topic

[go_vertical]

Now that you mention it I think it may be. It's like starting over with a blank canvas and having a second chance to get it (at least a little more) right. I first came to Charlotte back in '97 and I have always felt like it has been in constant motion. As long as I have known this city it has never come across as stale or stagnant to me. This is just one of the many reasons why I have fell in love with this place.

[ah59396]

The Braves just announced they will be moving to a new stadium in Cobb county (Smyrna) in 2017.  Turner field opened for baseball in 1997.  Good to see Atlanta investing in its core....

 

Scary to see how the shelf life for these stadiums is dropping rapidly.

[kermit]

^ kinda shocking any team would move to the burbs in this day and age.

I have been a casual Braves fan all my life. This move to the burbs will do what 12 20 years of playoff failures never could, I no longer care about the team.

Edited November 11, 2013 by kermit

[HopHead]

From what I've always heard, a majority of Braves STHs were north of the city so in theory this makes sense. However, for the city of Atlanta? What a huge blow. Pretty ridiculous that after 16 years the Ted is rendered obsolete. It's not like the stadium is the equivalent of the Trop (Rays) or Oakland Coliseum (A's). It never had the personality of a Camden Yards or PNC Park, but thought it was a good stadium with a good fan experience. The Falcons get their $1B+ palace and the Braves move out to the Burbs for the same year.

[New Name]

To be fair, Turner Field isn't really well integrated with the urban landscape of Atlanta. MARTA doesn't go there. It's located in a sea of parking lots, highways and seen-better-days Olympic Village. It's not like Turner Field was tied in to the urban/downtown experience. 

[ah59396]

To be fair, Turner Field isn't really well integrated with the urban landscape of Atlanta. MARTA doesn't go there. It's located in a sea of parking lots, highways and seen-better-days Olympic Village. It's not like Turner Field was tied in to the urban/downtown experience. 

 

This new stadium will be even less of ALL of that. MARTA?  Not even close to it.  

While it will be more centered around season ticket holders, I can't fathom living around ATL and trying to Smyrna for a 7pm ballgame.  That traffic will be AWFUL.  Turner field may not have been "urban", but it's a very nice ball field with plenty of amenities.  Maybe I'm wrong, but this seems like a huge mistake, especially as the younger generations continue to move BACK into the city.

[kermit]

To be fair, Turner Field isn't really well integrated with the urban landscape of Atlanta. MARTA doesn't go there. It's located in a sea of parking lots, highways and seen-better-days Olympic Village. It's not like Turner Field was tied in to the urban/downtown experience.

I agree but, despite all its flaws, the ted was walkable to Marta and you were at least visually reminded that you were in a city while at the game.

The new location (285 and 75) is arguably the least accessible in the entire metro in terms of traffic and transit. But, yes, lower Cobb county will be close to some of the fan base. Unfortunately the substantial number of fans between Macon and Athens get screwed.

EDIT: ah beat me to it...

Edited November 11, 2013 by kermit

[15895]

Wow.... Atlanta, no offense at all and I say this under the assumption that there is anyone from ATL on here and as a person who loves to visit ATL for the aquarium, but this validates my *opinion* that ATL is still growing in a suburban, sprawl fashion.

ATL is - in my opinion - the poster child of urban sprawl. And it's something I hope Charlotte never replicates going forward.

I'm not an expert on ATL at all so of course everything I said is just a perception as an outsider.

[archiham04]

This new stadium will be even less of ALL of that. MARTA?  Not even close to it.  

While it will be more centered around season ticket holders, I can't fathom living around ATL and trying to Smyrna for a 7pm ballgame.  That traffic will be AWFUL.  Turner field may not have been "urban", but it's a very nice ball field with plenty of amenities.  Maybe I'm wrong, but this seems like a huge mistake, especially as the younger generations continue to move BACK into the city.

I have heard that baseball has the oldest demographic of any sport.  Maybe they are just following their fans to the nursing home.

[Urbanity]

Wow!

 

Though reading some of the comments on the MLB story of it seems to explain the why:   City (not Braves) got all parking revenue; City received large portion of concession stand revenue, and the city wouldn't negotiate.

 

Also the new stadium will apparently seat 41-42K (20k less than Turner Field) and will be open air 

The Braves Statement btw:

 

Turner Field is a facility that was built for three weeks of use for the Olympics, but has now served us well for nearly 20 years. The issue isn’t the Turner Field we play in today, but instead whether or not the venue can remain viable for another 20 to 30 years.

 

Turner Field has served the Braves well since 1997, but it is in need of major infrastructure work, which will cost around $150 million. These upgrades are functional ones, such as replacing worn-out seats or upgrading the stadium’s lighting, and they would do little to significantly enhance the fan experience. If the Braves were to pay for additional projects focused on improving the fan experience, the additional costs could exceed $200 million.

 

Those upgrades still wouldn’t address the logistical challenges outside the stadium – lack of consistent mass transit options, inadequate number of parking spaces and limited access to major highways.

Edited November 11, 2013 by Urbanity

[ah59396]

I have heard that baseball has the oldest demographic of any sport.  Maybe they are just following their fans to the nursing home.

 

That's an absolute fact that I can't argue.  But I will say this.  Usually when I visit Atlanta, I go to a Braves game.  This will not be the case any longer.  I have no interest in fighting that traffic north (definitely not staying in a hotel up there) where in the past I could just hop a cab for $5 and be at the stadium in less than 10 minutes.

 

Additionally, while AAA and MLB aren't comparable, the Knights have made an obvious investment in a young, 18-35 demographic showing up to ballgames.  If I'm 26 and live in Decatur or Buckhead, I have no interest in hopping in my car and driving to Cobb county.  And they can probably forget GT students or GSU students attending games now.

Edited November 11, 2013 by ah59396

[Urbanity]

Apparently the Marietta Daily Journal of all publications broke the story and they do have an interesting graphic of where Braves Ticket sales originate and where the stadium will be located.



While at first glance their move to the almost heart of their audience seems to make sense, what doesn't is what others pointed out - all that see of deep solid red in the heart of Atlanta is more than likely to become less solid and perhaps even sparse when the factors of commuting to a game are taken into effect.

They'll easily lose a large portion of the happenstance tourists in the area market.

Edited November 11, 2013 by Urbanity

[vassago]

I find it interesting that Atlanta mayor Reed was quoted in February by the Observer regarding our dealing with the Panthers:

 

“No mayor who has played the stadium game has won,” said Reed, who became Atlanta’s mayor in 2010.

 

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2013/02/08/3839728/atlanta-mayor-streetcar-is-smart.html#.UoFECeJdB8E

 

And today in the Journal-Constitution:

 

“… We have been working very hard with the Braves for a long time, and at the end of the day, there was simply no way the team was going to stay in downtown Atlanta without city taxpayers spending hundreds of millions of dollars to make that happen,” Reed said. “It is my understanding that our neighbor, Cobb County, made a strong offer of $450M in public support to the Braves and we are simply unwilling to match that with taxpayer dollars.”

 

http://www.ajc.com/news/sports/baseball/braves-plan-to-build-new-stadium-in-cobb/nbpNQ/

 

I wonder what the long-term economic loss to the city will be due to the move vs. what they might have spent to keep the team in the city limits.

Edited November 11, 2013 by vassago

[15895]

^ a politicians job for one

[go_vertical]

While I can't stand the idea of any sports franchise deciding to move to the 'burbs I honestly don't think this will hurt the team in regards to ticket sales even if they were to build the new stadium with the same capacity as Turner. If it is in fact true that MLB's demographic is aging then a good portion of fans already live outside the city. What am I saying, this is Atlanta and a majority of the population DOES live outside of the beltway. But the Braves are undeniably an icon of MLB as well as the city and while some die hards on the southside may grumble they will most certainly still make the trek to wherever the stadium is.

They, like every other team out there, want a large handout as well as the ability to keep a larger portion of their profits. The former disgusts me and the latter is just smart business. Also, I'm sure many of those older fans would rather not venture into downtown ATL especially if it is a late game. Hell, I've been an urban dweller all my life and I feel like I am able to handle myself in nearly any setting but let's be honest, there are still quite a few sketchy areas in and around central Atlanta.

Edited November 12, 2013 by go_vertical

[Urbanity]

...even if they were to build the new stadium with the same capacity as Turner... 

My understanding is that the new stadium is only about 40,000 seats versus Turner's 60,000+ so they have less seats to sell and they will be in the heart of their current market. 

 

The issue for me is more theory and philosophical than practical:  When you move out of the city and into the suburbs do you lose the hearts of the people the team name says it belongs?    

 

I wouldn't btw use Jets/Giants in this discussion btw as NYC has a unique and LONG history of teams playing in the far reaches of its city (what would be considered suburbs in other cities) as well as across the river.

 

I honestly wonder if the Braves spirit can survive being known as the Cobb County Cornholers?

Edited November 12, 2013 by Urbanity

[kermit]

The issue for me is more theory and philosophical than practical:  When you move out of the city and into the suburbs do you lose the hearts of the people the team name says it belongs?    

 

I honestly wonder if the Braves spirit can survive being known as the Cobb County Cornholers?

 

Compounding this difficulty is that Atlanta has always struggled to support the Braves appropriately -- they didn't even sell out their world series games. Seems awfully risky to gives the mass of transplants another reason to ignore them.

[HopHead]

My understanding is that the new stadium is only about 40,000 seats versus Turner's 60,000+ so they have less seats to sell and they will be in the heart of their current market. 

 

Sorry, don't want to get too technical but Turner Field seats 50,000 not 60,000+ . The new stadium will seat 42,000... 

[FrankNash]

We go down to opening day every year from here in Nashville but, after the move to Cobb we will just stay home. The corner of 75 and 285? This is simply a mistake to go to the burbs. Maybe this will be an opening for Charlotte to get a team one day?

[Urbanity]

 Maybe this will be an opening for Charlotte to get a team one day?

 

And Jerry Reese sprints to the media saying "SEE?! SEE?!" and implies he was working with the Braves all along to move to Charlotte...

 

Sorry, don't want to get too technical but Turner Field seats 50,000 not 60,000+ . The new stadium will seat 42,000... 

My bad!

[Urbanity]

Interesting map by the American Communities project that broke down Counties across the U.S. by 15 communities.

Mecklenburg is Big City County surrounded by Exurbs, Evangelical Hubs, and African American South.

 

Map is here

 

Definition of each community is here It defaults to the first county (African American South) but go to County Type in menu bar to access other definitions.

 

I always find these kind of surveys/mapping interesting.

Edited November 13, 2013 by Urbanity

[ah59396]

Not to beat a dead horse, but again in regards to the Braves move, this article is phenomenal.  I think it echos a lot of the same thoughts we would have if say, the Panthers moved to Concord Mills.  Probably the most telling are the comments below the article, namely:

 

Rembert's description is far too kind. Cobb County's history of racism and homophobia is a shameful one. The Olympic Torch was shielded when it passed through the county because of this. It's the county that gave the nation Newt Gingrich, reintroduced creationalism to Georgia textbooks, is the home of Kennesaw, where owning a gun is a law. 
It's where I first heard the disgusting description of MARTA as Moving Africans Rapidly Through Atlanta and that they don't want those kind there. 
It's not just that they are moving to a suburban county, it's THE county they are moving to that sucks so much. Geographically it's not that far but mindset-wise it's a world apart from the oasis that is Atlanta.

 

Anyways, there are TONS of parallels one can draw from reading about all of this with Charlotte.  The issues with Ballantyne and wanting to split away, boundryless growth, ect.  And while Charlotte is not Atlanta, this whole event in my opinion is a microcosm of the mindset of suburbanites country wide.

 

 

Anyways, here is the article.

 

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/82022/saying-good-bye-as-the-braves-leave-atlanta-for-atlanta

[FrankNash]

Atlanta, Charlotte, Dallas and Houston are the big city south. Austin, Louisville, Memphis, Nashville and New Orleans are small cities. Charleston, Greenville, and Savannah are big towns. Here in Nashville we are trying to fall somewhere between being a compact and walkable city with the sophistication of a Atlanta. Charlotte has beautiful skyscrapers and mass transit that Nashville would like very much. Be happy your not Atlanta, the mistakes they made on freeway expansion in the 80's and 90's very nearly choked the city. IMO Atlanta is always chasing the biggest and tallest without a care of historic buildings and true character. Every city should have a place that both locals and tourist can go that is unique to the place. In the south places like 6th street Austin, King st. and market Charleston, Beale st. Memphis, Bourbon st. New Orleans, Lower Broadway and 2nd ave. Nashville, and River st. and city market Savannah. Yes it can be some what touristy but the streets will be packed out day and night 365 days a year. I'm sure Charlotte has a place like this but I'm not that familiar with your city. I guess what I'm trying to say is who cares how big or small a city is as long as it has a certain je-ne-sais-quoi! Braves in cobb county not so much.

[15895]

The real-estate mogul told Channel 9’s Blair Miller he is already thinking about his next Carolina project, which could be in the Queen City.

Trump has always had his eye on developing a skyscraper in uptown.

He said he is confident he will invest in Charlotte again and he took another look in uptown Friday.

“Realistically, how soon do you think we should expect to see the Trump name in downtown Charlotte?” Miller asked.

“It’s the kind of thing that might just all of a sudden happen. I’m looking at different things. I’m here today. I’m actually going to stop in Charlotte. I just want to see something,” Trump said.

http://m.wsoctv.com/news/news/local/blair-miller-talks-donald-trump-about-charlotte-ve/nZbDF/

----------

I just have a question because I know nothing about real estate/development. Is it *possible* that the Crescent project could be "Trump Charlotte"??? I know crescent is the developer so would that make no sense to have Trumps name?

Even if that's not possible (Trump - Crescent), if Trump ever does put his name in uptown that will be great for recruiting companies

[Urbanity]

^that interview is from August.

Honestly - Would I love to see Trump come in and do some massive skyline changer - of Course!   Do I have much faith in that happening?  - not at all.  In fact I would fear for the future of the crescent project coming to fruition if Trump decided to get involved based on his record of announcing things and then just not completing them.

 

I also do not think the Trump name alone will mean anything for recruiting companies.  It might mean something for the city in general as far as PR value to a degree - but company recruitment? - no.