>> Providence East Neighborhoods

[Garris]

Two quick Wayland Sq updates:

I believe that the restaurant attached to Farmstead Cheeses (called La Laiterie I think) is open. I haven't tried it yet.

Also, Coffee Edge's fascade (in the former Daily Bread space) is now essentially done, although it has yet to open.

- Garris

[citybuilder]

Two quick Wayland Sq updates:

I believe that the restaurant attached to Farmstead Cheeses (called La Laiterie I think) is open. I haven't tried it yet.

Also, Coffee Edge's fascade (in the former Daily Bread space) is now essentially done, although it has yet to open.

- Garris

I stopped in Farmstead to inquire about La Laiterie this week. It is open for dinner from 5 onwards (closed Monday, if I recall correctly). The menu looks pretty cool, pricing consistent with Farmsteads prices for cheese. They have a great wine and beer menu, with a lot of thought on pairings with the cheese.

In Summit, Hope St Convenience (next to the DD) has closed, but is being replaced by the infinitely more enticing East Side Ice Cream Shop ! Shiny retro stools and counters are going in as I type...

Fox Point Concerned Citizens represents that area, i think...and we have a new community garden right at the end of power, on the other side of Gano where you'll find a lot of community members so come down and say hi.

Jen, is FPCC different than FPNA, or is it just the proper name for the association?

(I know, I'm dangerously close to a Life of Brian sketch here)

[jencoleslaw]

Jen, is FPCC different than FPNA, or is it just the proper name for the association?

(I know, I'm dangerously close to a Life of Brian sketch here)

sheesh, i have no idea what they call themselves these days.

[Cotuit]

but is being replaced by the infinitely more enticing East Side Ice Cream Shop ! Shiny retro stools and counters are going in as I type...

I want ice cream Downcity! They have enough damn ice cream on the East Side!

[dgreco]

I want ice cream Downcity! They have enough damn ice cream on the East Side!

what you really need on the east side, mainly thayer st. is a parking garage, it may be ugly, but it is definately necessary, and by doing so they can actually clean up the street and sidewalks and make thayer st. a better visual experience than it currently is.

[Garris]

I stopped in Farmstead to inquire about La Laiterie this week. It is open for dinner from 5 onwards (closed Monday, if I recall correctly). The menu looks pretty cool, pricing consistent with Farmstead's prices for cheese. They have a great wine and beer menu, with a lot of thought on pairings with the cheese.

In Summit, Hope St Convenience (next to the DD) has closed, but is being replaced by the infinitely more enticing East Side Ice Cream Shop ! Shiny retro stools and counters are going in as I type...

(I know, I'm dangerously close to a Life of Brian sketch here)

I stopped in to look at La Laiterie's menu as well. Absolutely fascinating! This is either going to be one of the coolest, most daring dining experiments in Providence, or will be so absolutely risky that it'll fall flat on its face. I really, really hope they promote this well and get good PR.

As for the East Side Ice Cream Shop, well, amazing... The fourth ice cream place (in addition to Cold Stone, Ben and Jerry's, and the incomparable Maximillian's) on the East Side! How much ice cream do we collectively eat?? It's good they are going for a retro feel to set themselves apart from the rest. It'll be great to do dinner at Blaze and ice cream at ESIC. This should also be a shot across the bow to Maximillian's in Oak Hill to upgrade their fairly run down interior and surrley teenage staff to the standards of their excellent ice cream.

I want ice cream Downcity! They have enough damn ice cream on the East Side!

With two great creameries in East Providence and one in North Providence, Downcity is the only place that goes without. I agree that a little stand on Westminster is almost essential for Downcity rebirth...

what you really need on the east side, mainly thayer st. is a parking garage...

Agreed 100%, but seemingly not in the cards in the near future. The city seems to want Brown to do it, and Brown has publically shown shockingly little interest in the direction and future of Thayer St. The best integrated, least intrusive examples of such garages I've seen are in downtown Portsmouth, NH and on 500 France, downtown Edina, MN.

- Garris

PS: Heard a Wayland Square rumor I'm deciding whether to post. I can't trace it back to any primary source and it doesn't feel 100% right, so it's in the realm of pure conjecture. It's not a rumor I particularly like either, so I might hold off until I find out more...

[dgreco]

Agreed 100%, but seemingly not in the cards in the near future. The city seems to want Brown to do it, and Brown has publically shown shockingly little interest in the direction and future of Thayer St. The best integrated, least intrusive examples of such garages I've seen are in downtown Portsmouth, NH and on 500 France, downtown Edina, MN.

The problem is really, is that brown has an opportunity to seize, by making money from non-brown/non local workers basically on weekends and weeknights, and they also have the joy of being an urban campus, for example any other schools ie; URI, Bryant, RIC, JWU etc, they would never do that to accomidate their students jsut because of the simple fact being that it will ruin their campuses, I know first hand from going to bryant that we have about 300 convienent parking spaces on the whole campus, and about 3,300 for a school size of 3,400, but yet they won't do anything that makes sense like a parking garage, because the last thing they want on their campus is a big square concrete thing. But I see both Brown and Providence missing out on making money especially with the little bit of nightlife on thayer (viva, paragons, etc.) and the virtually the chaos that is thayer st. during the summer days that they miss out on.

[Cotuit]

The problem is the College Hill Neighborhood association, who complain endlessly about the lack of parking but shoot down Brown everytime they suggest building a garage. From what I've heard, Brown's own parking crisis has eased considerably, in part due to their RIPTA pass program, so if they don't have a pressing need for parking for their own community, there's no reason for them to lead the fight against the CHNA on a garage, Brown has plenty of other things to fight with the CHNA over.

[dgreco]

The problem is the College Hill Neighborhood association, who complain endlessly about the lack of parking but shoot down Brown everytime they suggest building a garage. From what I've heard, Brown's own parking crisis has eased considerably, in part due to their RIPTA pass program, so if they don't have a pressing need for parking for their own community, there's no reason for them to lead the fight against the CHNA on a garage, Brown has plenty of other things to fight with the CHNA over.

But every school is a business, and you know a parking garage would initially hit their endowment, but in the end it would do nothing but build up their already robust 1,793,380,000 endowment, granted they may have more issues and other things, but when they have essentially, after it is paid off an income in which requires little upkeep they will be making a lot of money from it, and that money can go to so much without hurting their endowment and really just help the school. I'm sure if RISD didn't have 1/15 the endowment, they would take advantage of the opportunity.

[Cotuit]

I'm sure if RISD didn't have 1/15 the endowment, they would take advantage of the opportunity.

RISD would not, it seems like it should be a no brainer, but Brown tried to get RISD to fund a garage with them a while back and RISD said no. With RISD just wrapping up work on 15West and just starting the Chace Center, they have no money anyway. I think a lot of the back and forth with the neighborhood associations comes down to trade offs, do this but reduce that. There's nothing Brown is willing to make a trade off on to get a parking garage built, especially a parking garage they don't really really need.

Even with over a billion dollar endowement, schools are loathe to touch that. It's their nest egg, to build a garage Brown would have to start a new capital campaign devoted to it.

[dgreco]

There's nothing Brown is willing to make a trade off on to get a parking garage built, especially a parking garage they don't really really need.

Well I know Brown pays an outside company to clean thayer st., sweep , clean the trash, and stuff, besides they very few things on that upper end of the strip, that road really doesn't effect them, but at the same time they still pay for that, do you know why they would do something like take charge and make sure the street is cleaned, but not try to do something where they can make profit?

[Cotuit]

do you know why they would do something like take charge and make sure the street is cleaned, but not try to do something where they can make profit?

They got to keep the main campus retail area clean to ensure that visiting students (and their parents) continue to want to shell out the cash to go to school there.

[dgreco]

you got me in =/, I have a question I can't PM you but I was wondering about the woneffe site, is that your site, and did you do the coding? I have a question about the java in it, thanks.

[Cotuit]

you got me in =/, I have a question I can't PM you but I was wondering about the woneffe site, is that your site, and did you do the coding? I have a question about the java in it, thanks.

Yup, that's mine, and you have 20 posts so I think you should be able to use the PM system now.

[Garris]

The problem is the College Hill Neighborhood association, who complain endlessly about the lack of parking but shoot down Brown everytime they suggest building a garage. From what I've heard, Brown's own parking crisis has eased considerably, in part due to their RIPTA pass program, so if they don't have a pressing need for parking for their own community, there's no reason for them to lead the fight against the CHNA on a garage, Brown has plenty of other things to fight with the CHNA over...

...Not least of which is the all important green "Walk" and all the surrounding buildings they have planned to be the future of the campus, development which, quite literally, will go through the CHNA's backyard.

The political situation, dgreco, is that Thayer, once upon a time in the 1950's and 60's, used to be a quaint, quiet, little neighborhood service area, with markets, drugists, clothiers and the like. Since then, it's grown into a major and hip restaurant and entertainment district that the CHNA virulently hates, and all the movers and shakers of that group (probably about 6-12 people) would all donate a major organ each to turn back the clock to the 1950's (no matter how economically unrealistic that arrangement now is) and back legislation to extinguish the current retail mix. The City and Brown both probably benefit enormously from the current arrangment, in tourism, tax dollars, and recruitment (a hip eating and retail district is a must in the Ivys to compete with Harvard Square, Princeton, and Yale's rejouvenated Chapel St and Broadway). Neither entity, though, can likely publically come out and support the status quo (let alone further development) because it would bring down the rath of those 6-12 people in the CHNA and thus, by default, generate lots of negative quotes in the ProJo and thus generate lots of political problems... Thus, the City and Brown are likely quite content to just ignore the CHNA, not say a word, and let the retail mix continue to evolve in the very favorable direction it's been going all on its own without direction. That's the situation.

On parking, Brown mentioned in their master plan that they did a parking review, and found they actually have more parking spaces than they need. They may not be where their faculty or students would necessarily want/like them, but they do exist. That being the case, they (quite admirably) said no garage will be coming.

The other issue, dgreco, is that unlike some other schools (Yale is the one I'm most familiar with), I don't believe Brown actually owns much of retail real estate around Thayer, so they don't actually stand to make much (if any) money by a thriving Thayer Street. I believe, save for the office building with the Bookstore, most of the buildings are private. All that Thayer Street cleaning you saw was probably paid for by the Thayer improvement district (backrolled by the merchants) or the City and not the school (who do most of their own groundswork with vehicles marked with the Brown logo).

At Yale, through a combination of factors for several decades (lack of money, city opposition, bigger things to worry about, etc) their University owned retail areas languished and died to the point where they were essentially vacant slums. Then, under the direction of current (and outstanding) Yale president Richard Levin in the mid-90's, the University got serious about redoing all of the retail areas and attracting relevant local and chain merchants, evicting the remaining remnants of Ye Olde Ivy days. Today, Yale's surrounding retail areas are outstanding, they make for great recruitment lures, and I bet they now make money off them. Brown has no similar direct monetary investment...

- Garris

PS: Speaking of Thayer, I drove by the "Only in Rhode Island" store in the old Oop! spot, and they either are open now, or look like they'll be opening soon.

[Cotuit]

PS: Speaking of Thayer, I drove by the "Only in Rhode Island" store in the old Oop! spot, and they either are open now, or look like they'll be opening soon.

They've been open a few weeks, but I haven't had a chance to check it out yet.

[dgreco]

All that Thayer Street cleaning you saw was probably paid for by the Thayer improvement district (backrolled by the merchants) or the City and not the school (who do most of their own groundswork with vehicles marked with the Brown logo).

Well I know Brown does pay for the thayer st. cleaning, because my father is one of the owners of Ocean State Janitorial, and they clean the road,(sweep the store fronts, empty the garbage and clean all the store fronts whatever is requested, either by the school or the stores. They do not do anything in the stores but outside they do whatever is asked, because inside would be a new contract.) and it is all funded by the school, my only thought about the garage was that in an economical stand point, they would be building something for people who don't go to the school thus being able to charge some sort of price, which would make them money; whereas if it was just for brown students, they would not be able to charge, so I was just thinking in the sense that they would be making money on something that doesn't really effect their standpoint. I know the Capital Campaign would cost a decent amount of money, but at the same time once they are back in the black for garage essentially it would be all profit. That is just what I was wondering.

[Garris]

Wayland Square's loss, North Providence's gain:

Pastry Goumet is moving from the cute historic retail area (built 1922) on Wayland Ave in Wayland Square and moving to Mineral Springs Ave in North Providence.

Only a month or so after posting the above, the space has already been redone and has a new business open! Izzy's Market Cafe is open there, and it looked really nice when I jogged by yesterday.

In other, happier Wayland Square news, the new La Laiterie at Farmstead is getting rave reviews from posters on Chowhound.com. I'll repost one review below. I hope to head there soon!:

"From: (jslemmin)

Posted: June 06, 2006 at 00:29:49

Went to Farmstead's new winebar, La Laiterie, on Saturday night. We ended up going later than we had planned, and the place was booming! Great beer on tap!

Great wine list, and interesting menu. The place is very small inside, but they make the best use of the space, I guess. Cool orange lights, oversized chalkboard, bar tables, soapstone bar, 'East Side funky'...I think the room will get more comfortable and 'broken in' as they grow into it.

The food was great. Solid flavor combinations, classic touches, but fun takes on things- we had the Charcuterie plate (one of the best I've had anywhere, if you like meat), an amazing onion tart with a sweet crust, and then came dessert...a gooey strawberry rhubarb crumble, bubbling over the sides, and dripping with a sweet cream sauce- fantastic.

Service was professional and helpful, but not overbearing. We have been customers of Farmstead for a couple of years now, and are so glad to see them

doing well and now offering wine.

The cheeseplates looked amazing- but we didn't get one...next time! And there will be a next time, if not many more times!

The only complaint was that we got the hint we needed to leave (around 11:15pm), when they turned on Nirvana on the stereo...I guess we were just having such a good time, we didn't realize what time it was.

Go check out La Laiterie, as Farmstead has done it again.

-Jen

- Garris

[citybuilder]

They've been open a few weeks, but I haven't had a chance to check it out yet.

We went in last week and put together a few goody bags for out-of-country visitors. Only In RI had a decent mix of items, but it appeared they were still filling out their space with inventory. A lot of things in the "specialty foodstuffs" and "soaps n' candles" themes. Some nice local arts and craftwork, but they could really fill in the blank spaces with more !

Bargain of the day were these honking big bars of soap, arranged in an old cast iron bathtub, milled and stamped locally, for $2.

[Frankie811]

Gano, Ives Street traffic plans

http://www.projo.com/ri/providence/content...6.17c02263.html

[Garris]

Gano, Ives Street traffic plans

http://www.projo.com/ri/providence/content...6.17c02263.html

As someone who drives these streets everyday, these proposed change are so patently rediculous, on so many levels, that's it's embarrassing to the city. As usual, the knee jerk reaction is to slow everyone down, when the actual problems are:

- Absolute lack of light timing...

- Design of intersections inappropriate for traffic flow (someone making a turn at several intersections can block up traffic that can't get by them for a block)...

- People driving all over the road to avoid all of the potholes and innumerable manhole covers that feel like they are a foot below street level when you hit them...

- The Dunkin Donuts on Gano is an enormous draw for traffic in an area that is unable to handle all of the people turning...

I'd like to know what percentage of those Gano accidents were either at the Dunkin Donuts, Waterman intersection, or Medway intersection. I'd bet it's over 75%... I'd bet the Dunkin Donuts area itself might be responsible for half...

But rather than fix any of the above, we'll just spend even more money slowing everyone down so all of that future traffic increase everyone expects around Wayland Sq will be backed up for blocks. These two streets are the only North/South access for these areas and the only access there to 195, so we should be focusing on ways to increase access and efficiency and speed while bolstering safety.

A classic case of moving slower rather than thinking smarter...

- Garris

Oh, BTW, I love this statistical statement: "The study found that 85 percent of motorists on Gano Street go an average speed of 34 mph, which is 9 mph more than the speed limit." So, out of curiosity, what is the average speed when the mysterious other 15% are included in?

[dgreco]

Oh, BTW, I love this statistical statement: "The study found that 85 percent of motorists on Gano Street go an average speed of 34 mph, which is 9 mph more than the speed limit." So, out of curiosity, what is the average speed when the mysterious other 15% are included in?

it is also funny, because you have to go "10" over to actually get a speeding ticket, so necessarilly, you can't get pulled over, but I guess the speed is causing the accidents.

[Garris]

it is also funny, because you have to go "10" over to actually get a speeding ticket, so necessarilly, you can't get pulled over, but I guess the speed is causing the accidents.

I promise you that, unless it's at late PM/very early AM hrs when the roads are empty and someone's going irresponsibly fast, accidents on Gano are almost certainly due to poor traffic flow and people weaving around people turning or avoiding potholes.

What makes the proposed changes even more rediculous is the following from Wikipedia:

"85th percentile rule

In the United States, traffic engineers may rely on the 85th percentile rule[1] to establish speed limits. The idea is that the speed limit should be set to the speed that separates the bottom 85% of vehicle speeds from the top 15%. The 85th percentile is somewhat less than two standard deviations above the mean of a normal distribution.

The theory is that traffic laws that reflect the behavior of the majority of motorists may have better compliance than laws that arbitrarily criminalize the majority of motorists encourage violations. The latter kinds of laws lack public support and often fail to bring about desirable changes in driving behavior. An example is the federally-mandated 55 mph (90 km/h) speed limit that was scrapped in part due to notoriously low compliance.

Traffic engineers observe that the majority of drivers drive in a safe and reasonable manner as demonstrated by consistently favorable driving records. Studies have shown crash rates are lowest at around the 85th percentile. Vehicles traveling over the 85th percentile speed (or faster than the flow of traffic) have a significantly higher crash risk than vehicles traveling around or modestly below the 85th percentile speed.

Most U.S. jurisdications report using the 85th percentile speed as the basis for their speed limits, so the 85th percentile speed and speed limits should be closely matched. However, a review of available speed studies demonstrates that the posted speed limit is almost always set well below the 85th percentile speed by as much as 8 to 12 mph (see p.88) (13 to 19 km/h). Some reasons for this include:

Political or bureaucratic resistance to higher limits.

Statutes that restrict jurisdictions from posting limits higher than an arbitrary number.

By this reasoning, this is actually fabulous evidence for raising the speed limits there from 25 to 35. In many states, if you get a speeding ticket and can prove that 85 percent of traffic in an area is going 5mph or more over the speed limit, your ticket will get thrown out...

- Garris

[brick]

it is also funny, because you have to go "10" over to actually get a speeding ticket, so necessarilly, you can't get pulled over, but I guess the speed is causing the accidents.

Speed is the lazy excuse for saying why an accident happens. I have several friends who are cops and in every minor accident they just put speed into the cause. for instance, say there is a minor fender bender because somebody came to an irresponsible complete stop due to not knowing where a street they wanted to turn was. Even if the driver behind was going 15 mph, the officer would note speed as the reason (insufficient means to stop or something) and not even take note of the crappy street signs or the fac that the lead driver wasn't really paying attention, etc. etc.

I am with Garris. These traffic risers are completely idiotic, and on a Saturday when there is a soccer game down at the field, no traffic will move anywhere throughout Fox Point with everyone coming to a near complete stop at every one of these stupid things.

The curbouts throughout Hope were bad enough IMNHSO. Creating these traffic bumps is even worse.

[Jenkins]

The curbouts throughout Hope were bad enough IMNHSO. Creating these traffic bumps is even worse.

Using the precious little infrastructure money we have on building those curb cutouts instead of actually paving some of those crappy roads absolutely floored me. What a waste!