The Bad News Report

[rancenc]

Not necessarily "BAD" in a overall sense, but sometimes big job announcements eventually do not always pan out in the long run for what ever reason.

https://www.carolinajournal.com/advanced-auto-parts-among-companies-pulling-out-of-n-c-incentive-deals/

 

Edited July 28, 2022 by rancenc

[JRCLT]

With two consecutive decreases in GDP ( a sign of recession) some news sources say we are officially in a recession.

https://www.bea.gov/data/gdp/gross-domestic-product

[DJ8hep]

With two consecutive decreases in GDP ( a sign of recession) some news sources say we are officially in a recession.

https://www.bea.gov/data/gdp/gross-domestic-product

I’m definitely curious to know how that will impact Charlotte. Would it be possible to see the GDP of Charlotte alone in the past two quarters? I know that most development projects are planning roughly for a few years economically in the future (which hopefully should maintain the momentum of many planned projects).

[kermit]

On 7/31/2022 at 11:53 AM, DJ8hep said:

I’m definitely curious to know how that will impact Charlotte. Would it be possible to see the GDP of Charlotte alone in the past two quarters? I know that most development projects are planning roughly for a few years economically in the future (which hopefully should maintain the momentum of many planned projects).

The official metro area GDP numbers are 18-24 months delayed. There are companies that estimate current figures (e.g. Moodys), but the estimates are really just a rear-view mirror guess so they are VERY unlikely to show a change in trend until well after the fact.

The most current government data is below. Expect 2021 data in December.

You generally need to make local recession calls based on unemployment data which are generally released monthly. But give  the bizarre footing of the economy unemployment looks like it will lag gdp.

 

Edited August 3, 2022 by kermit

[Hushpuppy321]

Centene Expansion over?  I saw an article headline in Biz Journal but wasn’t able to open it - anyone know if that’s for Charlotte (East Coast HQ) or were they talking about St. Louis (Main HQ).

Edited August 1, 2022 by Hushpuppy321

[kermit]

5 minutes ago, Hushpuppy321 said:

Centene Expansion over?  I saw an article headline in Biz Journal but wasn’t able to open it - anyone know if that’s for Charlotte (East Coast HQ) or were they talking about St. Louis (Main HQ).

Here is a non-paywalled version. Sounds like they are referring specifically to the St. Louis HQ. At a glance this sounds bullish for CLT.

https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/local/business-journal/centene-terminates-remainder-expansion-deal-clayton-revoke-subsidies/63-a5dea877-ebfd-44c3-9bb4-3fbfbfff9220

Edited August 1, 2022 by kermit

[Hushpuppy321]

13 minutes ago, kermit said:

Here is a non-paywalled version. Sounds like they are referring specifically to the St. Louis HQ. At a glance this sounds bullish for CLT.

https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/local/business-journal/centene-terminates-remainder-expansion-deal-clayton-revoke-subsidies/63-a5dea877-ebfd-44c3-9bb4-3fbfbfff9220

Oh whew - Don’t mean to be negative but I’d be surprised if they don’t scale back the East Coast HQ in Charlotte which I think was supposed to be like three (3) separate 800K SF buildings eventually at total build out.

Edited August 1, 2022 by Hushpuppy321

[CLT2014]

Centene, like most health insurers, is fully embracing flexible work arrangements. This termination in St. Louis isn't a surprise as they said back in June they planned to reduce their real estate foot print a staggering 65%: https://www.beckerspayer.com/payer/centene-to-reduce-real-estate-footprint-by-65.html

We should all be prepared for the possibility Centene doesn't need their full campus and decides to sub-lease some of the buildings. They aren't going to be even close to 3,000 people on campus most days. Consolidation will promote morale so people aren't sitting on empty floors because the 40% of people in on any given day aren't spread out over a huge space. Being on empty floors is depressing and fairly typical of in-person work at hybrid workplaces. 

Edited August 1, 2022 by CLT2014

[RANYC]

20 hours ago, CLT2014 said:

Centene, like most health insurers, is fully embracing flexible work arrangements. This termination in St. Louis isn't a surprise as they said back in June they planned to reduce their real estate foot print a staggering 65%: https://www.beckerspayer.com/payer/centene-to-reduce-real-estate-footprint-by-65.html

We should all be prepared for the possibility Centene doesn't need their full campus and decides to sub-lease some of the buildings. They aren't going to be even close to 3,000 people on campus most days. Consolidation will promote morale so people aren't sitting on empty floors because the 40% of people in on any given day aren't spread out over a huge space. Being on empty floors is depressing and fairly typical of in-person work at hybrid workplaces. 

They received a hefty incentive package from the state on the condition of a certain employee count.  Wonder how those incentives get unwound or canceled.

[KJHburg]

6 hours ago, RANYC said:

They received a hefty incentive package from the state on the condition of a certain employee count.  Wonder how those incentives get unwound or canceled.

NC does not pay up front and it is a rebate of their state taxes so if they dont create the jobs the state of NC loses nothing.  It is a rebate of their employment taxes so those jobs must be in the state. 

[rancenc]

Another hyped economic development announcement from the past is officially naught!

https://www.wbtv.com/2022/08/03/robinhood-is-closing-its-charlotte-office-leaving-big-promises-unfulfilled/

[CLT2014]

23 minutes ago, rancenc said:

Another hyped economic development announcement from the past is officially naught!

https://www.wbtv.com/2022/08/03/robinhood-is-closing-its-charlotte-office-leaving-big-promises-unfulfilled/

People in Charlotte can remain with the company, they are just getting rid of their entire office footprint so employees can move to Montana and live in the woods if they want. 

We really need to focus on being a great place to live so people come here not just for work.. a lot of our growth has been "my employer is relocating me to Charlotte" or "I need to go to Charlotte for a white collar job." That looks to be less critical in many industries. 

[turbocraig]

29 minutes ago, CLT2014 said:

We really need to focus on being a great place to live so people come here not just for work.. a lot of our growth has been "my employer is relocating me to Charlotte" or "I need to go to Charlotte for a white collar job." That looks to be less critical in many industries. 

True.  But the people coming here for work are the ones telling family and friends how good we have it here.  It’s just how the word spreads.  I’m not sure what other method is so effective at clueing people in.   Whenever I’m out of state, I never see tourism ads for NC.  I’m not sure how people would find out.  Less/no physical office space and a “live/work anywhere” future just exposes less people to the area.  Myself and two other friends that moved here for work in the mid-90s are the reason three sets of parents have all retired here.  And a nephew came, to boot.  If we hadn’t come for work, 10 people wouldn’t  be here.  

[CLT2014]

22 minutes ago, turbocraig said:

True.  But the people coming here for work are the ones telling family and friends how good we have it here.  It’s just how the word spreads.  I’m not sure what other method is so effective at clueing people in.   Whenever I’m out of state, I never see tourism ads for NC.  I’m not sure how people would find out.  Less/no physical office space and a “live/work anywhere” future just exposes less people to the area.  Myself and two other friends that moved here for work in the mid-90s are the reason three sets of parents have all retired here.  And a nephew came, to boot.  If we hadn’t come for work, 10 people wouldn’t  be here.  

Oh yeah, it is DEFINITELY going to be a hard thing to overcome. Rather than stick our heads in the ground, I think we need to figure out a way to talk about why Charlotte is a great place to live even if your job is remote. Increasing tourism might be one way to do that... another is trying to win at livability rankings for people that make their decisions on where to consider relocating from lists. 

Charlotte is a city where a lot of white collar jobs can easily be remote.

Edited August 3, 2022 by CLT2014

[KJHburg]

2 hours ago, rancenc said:

Another hyped economic development announcement from the past is officially naught!

https://www.wbtv.com/2022/08/03/robinhood-is-closing-its-charlotte-office-leaving-big-promises-unfulfilled/

the good news they did not get a dime of state money but it looks like another SF fintech has subleased their space see the Banking thread 

[DownEast]

2 hours ago, turbocraig said:

True.  But the people coming here for work are the ones telling family and friends how good we have it here.  It’s just how the word spreads.  I’m not sure what other method is so effective at clueing people in.   Whenever I’m out of state, I never see tourism ads for NC.  I’m not sure how people would find out.  Less/no physical office space and a “live/work anywhere” future just exposes less people to the area.  Myself and two other friends that moved here for work in the mid-90s are the reason three sets of parents have all retired here.  And a nephew came, to boot.  If we hadn’t come for work, 10 people wouldn’t  be here.  

I never see ads either. But, the connection between here and the NE is so strong, for so long, it's not needed there. I really am only there when out of state. Even Ohio has been sending folks down en masse over the last 25 years. I have 3 friends here from 3 different parts of Lorain Co. Aside from the obvious economic opportunities of CLT/RDU, you can't overstate what the military bases do to showcase the state. Major contributor.

[JHart]

We've seen 5+ different postings about how NC and Charlotte tops many lists of best places to start a business, do you ever wonder why that is? Well, NC tops the list for the 2nd year in a row as the worst state to work in!

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/08/06/state-worker-protections.html

https://www.oxfamamerica.org/explore/countries/united-states/poverty-in-the-us/map-best-states-to-work-2021/

Rankings were split between 3 major categories: wage policies (2nd to worst behind our Southern neighbor), worker protections (2nd to worst only above Mississippi), and right to organize (tie for dead last with SC & GA). Some highlights below:

Wage Policies: Minimum wage is lowest allowed federally. Tipped minimum wage of $2.13. Average unemployment benefits cover only 11.6% of wages required to cover local cost of living. Bans localities from setting minimum wages above the state standard and does not cover farmworkers with minimum wage policies. 

Worker Protections: No accommodations for pregnant workers or breastfeeding, no paid family leave, no sick leave, no flexible scheduling, no "call-in" pay, split shift pay, or advance shift scheduling requirements. No sexual harassment protections, no pay secrecy practices, and no salary history restrictions to reduce gender/racial bias. 

Right to Organize: "Right-to-work" laws to suppress unions. No state provided teacher collective bargaining/wage negotiations. No project labor agreements to ensure fair wages to contract workers. No protections against wage theft retaliation. No required public worker collective bargaining. 

 

We often love to tout our tech and higher education prowess, but what makes NC the best state to start a business is the winning combination of tech and higher education for mid/high-level employees AND cheap access to unprotected workers to exploit!

[KJHburg]

Arrival is once again delaying its production start in the Charlotte area and now has some local layoffs.

""Arrival says it is ready to begin electric van production at a microfactory in the U.K. in the third quarter. Company leaders said that in addition to focusing on the Bicester facility and electric van production in the short term, Arrival would only run one shift at that location for the time being.  The reorganization plan announced last month called for a 30% reduction in spending across the company, affecting as much as 30% of Arrival's employees globally. It said the plan has impacted 35 jobs in the Charlotte region.""

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2022/08/11/arrival-reorganization-microfactory-ev-production.html

on the issue above: In terms of workers if NC is such a horrible place for them why do people keep moving here mainly for jobs?  There are very few min. wage jobs in the metro areas of NC or the resort areas across the state.  Why should anyone be forced to join a union?  How many of you are union members working here in NC probably a few in the airline industry?   Some of the first Starbucks unionized were in NC so there is no suppression.   Sometimes I wonder why some of you choose to live in NC and why not move to states that so much better in your eyes on lots of issues? 

[JHart]

1 hour ago, KJHburg said:

on the issue above: In terms of workers if NC is such a horrible place for them why do people keep moving here mainly for jobs?  There are very few min. wage jobs in the metro areas of NC or the resort areas across the state.  Why should anyone be forced to join a union?  How many of you are union members working here in NC probably a few in the airline industry?   Some of the first Starbucks unionized were in NC so there is no suppression.   Sometimes I wonder why some of you choose to live in NC and why not move to states that so much better in your eyes on lots of issues? 

People moving across state lines for jobs are not the exploited workers who require protections. Clearly there are tons of high paying jobs in the metro areas, which is a great thing about Charlotte and NC. The laws mentioned above help protect people who are behind on rent payments and can't say no when they are called in unexpectedly due to improper scheduling, even when they have children at home. Or people who manage to pay for childcare and go to work but then get sent home unexpectedly even though they were expecting a full shift. People who are sexually harassed in the workplace or who have wages stolen from them, but don't want to report it and risk getting fired and missing their bills. Why do we only expect benefits for our office workers and not working class citizens? 

"If you don't like it why don't you leave?" - Ahh yes, we've reached that stage of discussion. I don't want to leave, I love Charlotte and NC. If you think people who care about protecting working class citizens should move out of the state instead of trying to make positive change, I'd hate to see what kind of place you want to live in.. 

[SoDoSoPa]

4 hours ago, KJHburg said:

Sometimes I wonder why some of you choose to live in NC and why not move to states that so much better in your eyes on lots of issues? 

I really dislike this train of thought, trying to improve a place isn't bad thing.  NC has changed a LOT in the past 10 years for the better.  This type of thinking is why other southern states continue to lag behind the rest of the nation in almost every QoL metric.

[jednc]

3 hours ago, SoDoSoPa said:

I really dislike this train of thought, trying to improve a place isn't bad thing.  NC has changed a LOT in the past 10 years for the better.  This type of thinking is why other southern states continue to lag behind the rest of the nation in almost every QoL metric.

I'm not really arguing against anything you've said here. I just want to add something. Prior to the influx of people from out of state, North Carolina was already a leader in the Southeast in many areas. Areas. This was a great place to live long before anyone came here to change it.

[TCLT]

20 hours ago, jednc said:

North Carolina was already a leader in the Southeast

Quite an achievement considering the economic and quality of life powerhouses in the region like Mississippi, Alabama, South Carolina, and Tennessee that NC is up against!

[jednc]

4 hours ago, TCLT said:

Quite an achievement considering the economic and quality of life powerhouses in the region like Mississippi, Alabama, South Carolina, and Tennessee that NC is up

And Texas and Florida and Virginia and Georgia. Are you willfully stupid or just an a-hole? I'm guessing it's the dreaded combo of both. Oh gosh, I forgot to make this blue... 

Edited August 13, 2022 by jednc

[TCLT]

And Texas and Florida and Virginia and Georgia. Are you willfully stupid or just an a-hole? I'm guessing it's the dreaded combo of both. Oh gosh, I forgot to make this blue... 

Hey kunt, neither Texas nor Virginia are part of the southeast. Only having two other competitors is the definition of being easy to be a leader.

[15895]

34 minutes ago, jednc said:

And Texas and Florida and Virginia and Georgia. Are you willfully stupid or just an a-hole? I'm guessing it's the dreaded combo of both. Oh gosh, I forgot to make this blue... 

It was a joke in response to a poster who just got done posting like a dozen rankings of NC in the good news thread yet offended by a benign ranking in the bad news thread and basically said if you don’t like NC then leave. Which was uncalled  for. 

It really wasn’t worth anymore than a joking retort. People are getting way too emotional over Charlotte these days on this board so it’s really just best to leave a little emoticon thing and not reply when people are in their feels about the status, image and grandeur of Charlotte, N.C. 

Edited August 13, 2022 by AirNostrumMAD