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High-Speed Rail

bic

By bic
in Orlando

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bic Burg

bic

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A bit off-topic but interesting given its timing:

Gov. Rick Scott Friday said the state will contribute $77 million to deep dredge the port of Miami so that larger ships can use it.

Scott said he’s directed the state Department of Transportation to “amend” its work plan to account for the $77 million “so that Florida can take another leap forward in international trade.”

The announcement comes the same day as Scott rejected $2.4 billion for a high speed rail system in the state. He called the port dredge “the type of infrastructure project that will pay permanent, long-term dividends, and provide a solid return on investment for Florida’s taxpayers.”

Once the port is dredged to a depth of 50 feet, it could accomodate larger ships built to traverse the Panama canal, which is being expanded.

“There are a number of worthy infrastructure projects that deserve our attention, and as Floridians, we know best where our resources should be focused,” Scott said.

Port officials had hoped to secure the money in a congressional earmark, but were thwarted when Congress began to swear off earmarks. The Obama administration did not include any money for the project in its 2012 budget.

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FLClarkKent Hamlet

FLClarkKent

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How about we just build it anyway, and Scott can cover cost overruns personally to make up for the Medicare fraud he was a part of? ;P

Here, here! All kidding aside, I do think our local leaders are going to have to band together to solve our transportation woes - b/c they aren't going to get any help from the state, save for toll roads down I-4 (that's my next prediction!).

Buddy and Teresa need to work together to develop a permanent funding solution for Lynx...and perhaps the mayors who rallied for HSR can begin to take a more regional look at transportation initiatives.

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aent Burg

aent

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Here, here! All kidding aside, I do think our local leaders are going to have to band together to solve our transportation woes - b/c they aren't going to get any help from the state, save for toll roads down I-4 (that's my next prediction!).

Buddy and Teresa need to work together to develop a permanent funding solution for Lynx...and perhaps the mayors who rallied for HSR can begin to take a more regional look at transportation initiatives.

Having looked at the new 95 express lanes in Miami, I think it would be great to add toll lanes on I-4... it will make more visible the real costs of travelling by road and reduced the perceived cost difference in traveling by highway vs high speed rail. Moving to more direct usage based taxes is whats needed to gather more public support for the rail system, and have the road improvements be more self-sustainable. I think a big part of the reason gathering support for the HSR was so hard is that people don't really know the real cost of travelling on our roads. Its impossible to figure out. A big argument I heard during this debate is it costs near the same for the ticket as it does for gas, but they obviously aren't taking into account the "hidden" expenses of roads, including electricity for lights, repainting and repaving, litter cleanup, their vehicles costs, gas, oil, etc... its very hard to calculate all that, especially the side the government is paying for from all these different taxes. If the highways were tolled and tolls were set to really make the highways self sustainable with $0 in taxes, I think the view of HSR would be very different by many people, as that would make the cost comparison for driving vs rail much more favorable for rail (which it is!)

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codypet City

codypet

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Next up: SunRail.

Sunrail is no doubt dead. I also suspect that money for "rail" set aside in his budget was to pay the feds back the design that has been done so far on HSR.....Its unfortunate. Corrine Brown said she'd never though she'd miss Charlie Crist. Right about now....I miss him too.

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nite owℓ Burg

nite owℓ

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Rick Lynn Scott is treating his position as Gov as though he is running a business, and common' just look at his resume. You have to admit he is great at being a businessman. But the way he is handling things so far reminds me of working at my old job during a hostile management takeover. People like him have very cut&dry personalities and will pretty much do whatever they want to fulfill their agendas. As long as he can carry on without overstepping legal boundaries (with the help of his attorneys and advisers) this is the type of behavior we must come to expect during his term. Luckily people with his type of personality have a short shelf life anyway and judging from his sporadic track record, he's planning to move on to other things anyway... hmm! LOL Thankfully, we have people like Buddy Dyer running our city who are a good blend of business AND have the personality for politicking.

Honestly I wasn't sold on the HSR to Tampa, although it would have been a much needed start to thinking seriously about public transportation for our state and bring about future expansion. Maybe if we had pushed harder for a North/South HSR to Miami things may have turned out differently... or not? Who knows what's going on in Rick Scott's mind anyway!

I really don't think he has the balls to touch SunRail. The rail tracks already exist, it's already surrounded by businesses, businesses like Florida Hospital already has infrastructure in place for it's Health Village, and the FDOT has been acquiring the right of way for the project.

This is going to be an interesting 4 years.

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FLClarkKent Hamlet

FLClarkKent

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Having looked at the new 95 express lanes in Miami, I think it would be great to add toll lanes on I-4... it will make more visible the real costs of travelling by road and reduced the perceived cost difference in traveling by highway vs high speed rail. Moving to more direct usage based taxes is whats needed to gather more public support for the rail system, and have the road improvements be more self-sustainable. I think a big part of the reason gathering support for the HSR was so hard is that people don't really know the real cost of travelling on our roads. Its impossible to figure out. A big argument I heard during this debate is it costs near the same for the ticket as it does for gas, but they obviously aren't taking into account the "hidden" expenses of roads, including electricity for lights, repainting and repaving, litter cleanup, their vehicles costs, gas, oil, etc... its very hard to calculate all that, especially the side the government is paying for from all these different taxes. If the highways were tolled and tolls were set to really make the highways self sustainable with $0 in taxes, I think the view of HSR would be very different by many people, as that would make the cost comparison for driving vs rail much more favorable for rail (which it is!)

That's an interesting perspective. Thanks for the insight.

I really don't think he has the balls to touch SunRail. The rail tracks already exist, it's already surrounded by businesses, businesses like Florida Hospital already has infrastructure in place for it's Health Village, and the FDOT has been acquiring the right of way for the project.

This is going to be an interesting 4 years.

I sure hope so. I'm hoping that the business interest in Sun Rail is strong enough to propel the project forward. I have to imagine that there is significant commercial interest in development around the stations.

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cloudship Burg

cloudship

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He didn't read the report?

I just don't get it! This isn't just about a Project. This isn't just about Scott. Had this been a liberal group which produced a different report, there would be so many lawsuits against them for using false figures to promote their own interests that there would be jail terms involved. Yet here we are where these people are hailed as heroes. When did the Us and Russia swap places?

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alex Hamlet

alex

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"Scott has been openly skeptical of the state's ridership report, which he said he never read. He previously dismissed the numbers as inflated, pointing to an analysis of ridership studies for other train systems done by the Reason Foundation, a libertarian think tank." So he can have an opinion about something that he's never actually researched? I can't understand why anyone in their right mind would think Scott is looking out for them -- "looking out for taxpayers" and "boondoggle" being his primary buzz-word arguments.

If they would just look at the facts: I recently stumbled upon this article (12 Train Myths) that does a really good job showing how more often than not trains are a great investment.

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codypet City

codypet

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Begin Rant.

Not only did he not read the study. It was like pulling teeth to get him to meet with the rail authority (I'm don't know if he even did that). The train was almost fully designed. The supreme court hearing indicated that $110 million was spent so far (which will more than likely have to be paid back by the state now) on the train. The least he could have done at this point was wait for bids. All the firms evidently were cool with taking on the overruns and paying the $300 million. So it would be between them to sweeten the pot even more. This was the closest you were ever going to see to private industry building this thing out of pocket.

I keep hearing the arguement that if it was such a good idea private industry would have built it. My answer to that is try purchasing one continuous piece of land from Orlando to Tampa and see how much that ends up running you. I'm so disgusted by the political game I could absolutely scream. And he still sits there and says he's not convinced. Of course your not convinced Scott, you sat with your hands over your ears and went la la la I'm not listening! I really wish some investigation would take him down a peg or two.

I'm disappointed in our legislature for not being more aggressive on Scott for this, I'm disappointed with the press for not doing their part and exposing more of the truth, I'm disappointed in the city agencies for not being more proactive, I'm disappointed in whoever was doing public relations and lobbying for the rail for not educating the public more, and I'm disappointed in the governor for letting partisan politics and news fame get in the way for whats best for the state. I've lost a lot of faith in our state in the last 3 weeks.

End of Rant.

PS I cannot stand the word boondoggle anymore. I've never heard of that word till the Amway Center showed up. And I've had conversations with people that will say that rail shouldn't exist cuz its a boondoggle. What the heck does that mean? That's not a reason!

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alex Hamlet

alex

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Stop it! Rick Scott has spoken, this project is dead in the water , for the near and distant future. Give it up, it's okay.

Another mention of HSR's second chance (though I don't want to get my hopes up):

Gov. Rick Scott delays SunRail decision until July

From the article:

Also Friday, U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood said he was reopening the application process nationwide for the $2.4 billion Scott rejected for high-speed rail. In theory, Orlando, Tampa and Lakeland — three cities that would have been served by the train — could seek the money.

U.S. Sen. Bill Nelson, D-Fla., who has tried to get Scott to change his mind, said the cities might team up with Amtrak or another agency to go after the grant.

"Florida's chances are alive, thanks to Secretary LaHood," Nelson said.

But the cities would have to find a way to oversee the project and take control of the state-owned land on which the train would run. Scott has indicated repeatedly he would not cooperate with the cities.

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cloudship Burg

cloudship

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La Hood has in fact allowed Amtrak to go after those funds. Amtrak already mostly serves the whole route this HSR line would serve, so there is precedent for it to develop the route on it's own. If it can manage enough pull at the federal level, it could even then get the power of the fed behind it for land taking. This might even enable it to realistically push for a whole route solution all the way to Miami.

Even if Amtrak were to use the fund for the NEC, that would then free up the Acela trainsets. Since those ARE FRA compliant, Amtrak could put those in service on the current route, no investment or approvals required.

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codypet City

codypet

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I thought I read on the Sentinel that now Wisconsin has put in a bid to get Florida's rejected HSR money. Does anyone know where that article went? I was pretty sure Wisconsin was the reason Florida ended up with $2.4 billion in the first place. I'm confused, why the sudden change of heart?

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JFW657 Metropolitan Area

JFW657

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I hope Amtrak gets every nickel of it.

Not only because I support Amtrak, but because the anti-rail goofballs hate it & for Amtrak to get the money would be a small defeat for those fools.

Besides.... why should some other state get our rail money???

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