Jump to content

High-Speed Rail

bic

By bic
in Orlando

Recommended Posts

Jernigan Town

Jernigan

Posted
Posted

So basically he's:

- Putting a nail in the coffin of a national HSR plan by killing the Orlando-Tampa leg and creating something that isn't high speed, part of a network, but will somehow still get the Federal money.

- If it turns a profit, it would be a source of funding locally for LYNX and SunRail

- So while he scorns Tampa for not passing a sales tax referendum in this economy, he's turning around and pulling this off in Orlando.

It's pretty amazing. I'm disgusted in principal on some levels, but man would it be good for us.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 280
  • Created
  • Last Reply
codypet City

codypet

Posted
Posted

I don't like that idea at all. That is way too expensive of a train for that distance. Someone needs to get the public's attention about this design fee. Scott was doing this to save the state money. The train was gonna cost the state $0 upon inception (all the money was either federal or private). Now that rails canceled, the state has to pay that design fee....and that's in the hundreds of millions of dollars. He's doing the complete opposite of what he said he's doing....and noone seems to know!

Link to comment
Share on other sites
cloudship Burg

cloudship

Posted
Posted

Wouldn't be long enough for high-speed rail. Wouldn't be long enough for trains to get up to 110mph, thus wouldn't qualify for any funding.

Are these people serious? Are they that clueless or do they really think people are going to fall for these fallacies? There's an engineer who is claiming that the average speed would be 40 miles per hour due to station stops - that would require nearly half an hour at each station!

They are not trying to help the project, they are trying to tank it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
aent Burg

aent

Posted
Posted

Wouldn't be long enough for high-speed rail. Wouldn't be long enough for trains to get up to 110mph, thus wouldn't qualify for any funding.

Are these people serious? Are they that clueless or do they really think people are going to fall for these fallacies? There's an engineer who is claiming that the average speed would be 40 miles per hour due to station stops - that would require nearly half an hour at each station!

They are not trying to help the project, they are trying to tank it.

Well I think their concept is the ridership numbers per mile will be extremely strong and the system will be very profitable for the amount you must spend to build a high speed rail system this short distance. Once thats shown to be a great success, it will be easier to extend it, especially since some trains will have already been purchased, the maintenance/operations facility at OIA would have been built, and 3 stations would have been built... extending to Lakeland means just that many miles of track and one more station, and the same to Tampa, and if the train is profitable on the short distance, the profits can be used to pay for that, or at least convince the other officials to pay for the extension by saying that, at the very least, the profits from the existing portion can pay for the operations of the Tampa extension if it doesn't do well. I don't think anyone's concept is "lets build a HSR this short distance and forget about the rest", its more of "lets get the federal money to build a short distance and probably the most expensive part of it now since we can't get support for the entire thing, then it will cost much less at that time to extend to Tampa/Miami, and can also be done in pieces, one stop at a time if need be"

Link to comment
Share on other sites
bulldogger Town

bulldogger

Posted
Posted

Wouldn't be long enough for high-speed rail. Wouldn't be long enough for trains to get up to 110mph, thus wouldn't qualify for any funding.

Are these people serious? Are they that clueless or do they really think people are going to fall for these fallacies? There's an engineer who is claiming that the average speed would be 40 miles per hour due to station stops - that would require nearly half an hour at each station!

They are not trying to help the project, they are trying to tank it.

I took the chunnel last year on a visit between London and Paris and the train stopped once before going under the channel. It came to a complete stop and stayed at a station for less than 5 minutes. Why does the train HAVE to stay for 30 minutes? I imagine that it could stay for 10-15 minutes due to the loading and unloading of passengers at OCCC on its way to Disney.

Also, weren't the trains in Ohio that were allocated funding going to be slower as well?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
cloudship Burg

cloudship

Posted
Posted

Unfortunately it will do the opposite. To run such a short distance, it would have to be run as a metro system. That is not very compatible with High Speed Rail. And throwing high speed rail technology into what is essentially a metro line at best will not only be wasteful but will then sell high speed rail technology as gimick. It also only works for such a short group of people that there is not enough ridership - you will not get anyone staying off-site of Disney, as they would have no way to get around. The convention business might throw a few more customers, but to run with HSR technology you would not have enough frequency to do that. In fact there is not a lot of benefit in HSR for such a distance anyways. Now, I can see regular transit working there, but I have a hard time supporting it for just one company at the cost of others.

The reason why the Tampa-Orlando link worked is that contrary to what the pundits want to convince you of, there is big demand along that route. People can and will commute to the station - if it is conveniently enough located near Lakeland and has appropriate parking, you will get people who will drive to that station and park there, to take the train to Tamps for work, or to OIA for their trip, or connect to sun Rail, if that link is worked out, to commute to Downtown Orlando. For visitors, they will meet at the train station instead of the airport. If Tampa had actually gone with a TPA connection, then you would also have had that side work out. Lastly, you can now use Lakeland Airport for charter and discount flights, provided a shuttle runs between it and the train station, for folks visiting Disney. Convenient rail travel has consistently been shown to be preferable over car travel, even when it takes longer (which in this case is highly unlikely).

The numbers are there whether people choose to believe them or some other number that they made up.

I took the chunnel last year on a visit between London and Paris and the train stopped once before going under the channel. It came to a complete stop and stayed at a station for less than 5 minutes. Why does the train HAVE to stay for 30 minutes? I imagine that it could stay for 10-15 minutes due to the loading and unloading of passengers at OCCC on its way to Disney.

Also, weren't the trains in Ohio that were allocated funding going to be slower as well?

It wouldn't. That's the point. Opposition is basically making up numbers since it is really hard to prove or refute them to try and make it sound like the rail line wouldn't work. But the numbers and facts they throw around are a bit absurd.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
jack Burg

jack

Posted
Posted

I took the chunnel last year on a visit between London and Paris and the train stopped once before going under the channel. It came to a complete stop and stayed at a station for less than 5 minutes. Why does the train HAVE to stay for 30 minutes? I imagine that it could stay for 10-15 minutes due to the loading and unloading of passengers at OCCC on its way to Disney.

Also, weren't the trains in Ohio that were allocated funding going to be slower as well?

I have nothing to back this up but we are not used to transit in this country(except NYC). Things move slower down here. They are right to assume the worst.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
FLClarkKent Hamlet

FLClarkKent

Posted
Posted

Unfortunately it will do the opposite. To run such a short distance, it would have to be run as a metro system. That is not very compatible with High Speed Rail. And throwing high speed rail technology into what is essentially a metro line at best will not only be wasteful but will then sell high speed rail technology as gimick.

The impression that I get is that essentially this new plan is nothing more than an end-run around the governor. Not true high speed rail, but the building block for a future system. By building this first small leg of the system, the funds get to be used and new legs of the system get to be added when there's new leadership in Tallahassee (which I reckon will be in a little under 4 years).

Link to comment
Share on other sites
cloudship Burg

cloudship

Posted
Posted

I see it as the opposite. Mica never was for HSR in the first place. This is an attempt to pacify the HSR supporters, weasel out of having to pony up for the study and engineering funds already spent, and then turn a project into nothing more than public dollars for a private theme park. And in a few years they will turn it into public transportation is only good to benefit big business, and kill anything else headed in that direction.

I do think there is no chance of that happening. Every other state that is still interested in dollars will rally against supporting a media conglomerate, and will turn the whole thing around. Bodes very, very poorly for Florida and ANY federal dollars at this point.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
bulldogger Town

bulldogger

Posted
Posted

Quite a few people have mentioned that they think a HSR line between Orlando and Miami would be much more viable than the Tampa/Orlando route. Recent news was that some money from this upcoming year's federal budget was going to be alloted to that line. With the move that Mica is trying to make, I wonder if that money will continue to be alloted towards that study. Given that Mica's approach to saving any HSR works of course.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
cwetteland Burg

cwetteland

Posted
Posted

This might seem like a stupid question but why did this not all get finalized before this tool took office? Is this not something that Crist could have done before he left? Obviously, there was enough legislative support.

It was finalized but Governors have the power to unfinalize. It wasn't like the FED was coming down to build it. They were giving the State money for a state project. Scott as governor has say over state projects.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
DeepEyez Whistle-Stop

DeepEyez

Posted
Posted

You must of got caught up in that Tea Party "let's save America from these Liberals" bullcrap rhetoric.... Economically, the conservative vision for America is to turn it into a paradise for the super-rich and a living Hell for your run of the mill, average American. Such is life is CrazyLand.....

I can't believe I actually voted for that lemon !!!!!!!! What a mistake.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Go to topic listing

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.