Waterside District

[urbanlife]

I do see your point Varider, but the answer is not tearing down a 26 year old facility. If you want to assign blame for the slow death of Waterside lay it at the feet of the city. The city created this mess let the city figure out a way to make Waterside viable again. I still like the idea of keeping the upstairs clubs, restaurants, and kind of sports pubs (Jillians) and opening up the downstairs to become some type of farmers market or flea market. I think the knee jerk thing to do is to tear down the facility that the city pumped so much investment in. I am happy that the city is taking its time and soliciting inputs from citizens. I wouldn't be surprised to see Waterside turned into some variation of what I imagined it should be.

Norfolk really needs to end this cycle of "its a dump, tear it down." That same type of thinking is the reason why you cant recognize downtown from 1930 compared to today. The city needs to focus more on preserving what little past it has left and renovating it back to its full potential.

[brikkman]

I do see your point Varider, but the answer is not tearing down a 26 year old facility. If you want to assign blame for the slow death of Waterside lay it at the feet of the city. The city created this mess let the city figure out a way to make Waterside viable again. I still like the idea of keeping the upstairs clubs, restaurants, and kind of sports pubs (Jillians) and opening up the downstairs to become some type of farmers market or flea market. I think the knee jerk thing to do is to tear down the facility that the city pumped so much investment in. I am happy that the city is taking its time and soliciting inputs from citizens. I wouldn't be surprised to see Waterside turned into some variation of what I imagined it should be.

And see, I think we are thinking of it too small, think bigger, not taller, but bigger. And what I mean by that is, incorporate a little of what urbanlife's plan with the extension to the street and some how connect it to the Sheraton and harbor park, that is what I would like to see. I think it was so small and the city grew, it only severed a certain type of customer and they disappeared. However, if they make it big enough, they could change it to a place that attracts many types of people and add connection to the surrounding area. What does a renovation look like at waterside? Can it be renovated? I personally do not think so, you can remove the stench, but that is about it. Extend that joker to water side drive and to the river right past the Sheraton. That way, you can have your fresh market, clubs, eateries, and everything else. Add some on going entertainment (year around) and we have a change we can live with.

[usermel]

I like those ideas, better than anything I can think of. Hopefully they come true. L.G.N.M

[Telmnstr]

Not that I want to give council ways to waste taxpayer money, but do you think the Waterside is fitting (in looks) as a museum or aquarium? That's kind of how it fits.

Remember, MacArthur took away it's original purpose. Granted, MacArthur has a horrible food court.

Perhaps they should have put the light rail stop as part of Waterside. Since it should have been elevated maglev/monorail, they could have docked at waterside and MacArthur.

[ronsmytheiii]

Not that I want to give council ways to waste taxpayer money, but do you think the Waterside is fitting (in looks) as a museum or aquarium? That's kind of how it fits.

Remember, MacArthur took away it's original purpose. Granted, MacArthur has a horrible food court.

I definitely think that a mix for Water side would be good. Have a few good seafood restaurants next to the water (but keep the place open) Farmers market on the rest of the first floor, with folding doors that open up to the air during nice days and windows everywhere. on the Second floor, open it up and put more windows and turn it into a history of Norfolk museum or Norfolk art gallery/studio and use any remaining space for a few City government offices. Mix up the usage, so that it doesn't just depend on one demographic.

[varider]

All of you with these great ideas really need to submit them to the city's questionaire onthe future of Waterside.

[ronsmytheiii]

Will city leaders take a gamble and make The Waterside a casino? It's one of the many ideas being suggested for the venue on the downtown Norfolk waterfront.

"The idea is that we've got a jewel on the waterfront. We know that people want to use that jewel. We just want to find out how they can use it with the relevance of the 21st century business opportunities," said Bob Batcher with the City of Norfolk.

No thank you......

http://www.wvec.com/news/Casino-one-of-many-ideas-for-Norfolks-Waterside--91541589.html

[VBIllini13]

No thank you......

http://www.wvec.com/...--91541589.html

It's working pretty well in St. Louis. If crime can be controlled and security maximized, it can be a very safe business venture. Indian reservations that have casinos on their lands actually have some of the lowest crime rates in the nation.

[brikkman]

It's working pretty well in St. Louis. If crime can be controlled and security maximized, it can be a very safe business venture. Indian reservations that have casinos on their lands actually have some of the lowest crime rates in the nation.

I do not think crime would be the issue, I think it will be other things like seediness (sp?) If they can control that aspect, a casino would work ANY where on the planet. When you look at reasons why people do not have casinos in their city, its usually issues surrounding seediness is the issue. I would not want to see it at waterside, but there are a lot of other cool places to put it in Norfolk or hampton roads in general. It will not happen though.

EDIT-----Maybe crime would be an issue, FOR NORFOLK LOOL. If the current outlook on crime in Norfolk, is any indication (in my Obama voice) of what it will continue to be, then yes, casino's are a bad idea for norfolk, lol.

Edited April 20, 2010 by brikkman

[usermel]

This casino won't happen unless palms get greased etc.! It has to be approved by state government etc.! I think it would work and bring revenue. Would be nice having comedic acts like Seinfeld play at a local casino and shows like Celine Dion that would attract people on bus tours etc. from other parts of the east coast! It would be a great spring-fall draw with Va Beach tourist as well. In the winter it would add good revenue to the local economy as well.

There are plenty of things that can be done with a casino besides gambling. It can be a draw for tourist and thats what Norfolk lacks a draw besides MacArthur Center! Waterside use to be a draw but, of course no more!!!! I would LOVE to be able to take clients to a casino after business is conducted or they may go on there own. Bottomline, it would work on the Elizabeth River, it is the perfect setting like other casinos around the USA. Thats said, unless the proper under the table deals are made and palms are greased it won't happen. BIG business is heavily involved in politics and casino's are cash cows!!! Crime will exist as it always has in Norfolk and its a part of the territory when you bring in any business entity that makes large cash amounts of any type!!! I Hope we get a casino but, they will not approve it in the Commonwealth state of Virginia! L.G.N.M

[ronsmytheiii]

It is not that I do not mind a casino (though not a fan), I just dont want one at Waterside!

[usermel]

It is not that I do not mind a casino (though not a fan), I just dont want one at Waterside!

And your comment will be matched by MANY in Virginia and locally and is why I think you have nothing to worry about. It won't be located at Waterside or any place in the state. I want it(Casino at Waterside or locally) but, things like this can only go through when besides the deals made under the table and palms get greased, citizens agree as a majority they want a casino in state or locally. To many Virginians have old fashioned mindsets and nobody wanted light rail(went through anyway because city leaders wanted it) near them and NOBODY will want a casino 50-75 miles near them!!! Virginians are not progressive thinking Americans and it contributes to the reason we are behind smaller metros in other areas. Not all Virginians are conservative, just the majority of them and locally its very conservative!! L.G.N.M

Edited April 21, 2010 by usermel

[VBIllini13]

And your comment will be matched by MANY in Virginia and locally and is why I think you have nothing to worry about. It won't be located at Waterside or any place in the state. I want it(Casino at Waterside or locally) but, things like this can only go through when besides the deals made under the table and palms get greased, citizens agree as a majority they want a casino in state or locally. To many Virginians have old fashioned mindsets and nobody wanted light rail(went through anyway because city leaders wanted it) near them and NOBODY will want a casino 50-75 miles near them!!! Virginians are not progressive thinking Americans and it contributes to the reason we are behind smaller metros in other areas. Not all Virginians are conservative, just the majority of them and locally its very conservative!! L.G.N.M

I could definitely see one popping up in the northern part of the state, actually. In Illinois, there are a few casinos either already built or planned in the Chicago suburbs (Aurora, Des Plaines). NoVA (notably Alexandria) is liberal enough where they would, possibly, be in favor of having a casino. Having said that, I agree with you that many NIMBYs from Virginia Beach, Chesapeake, suburban Norfolk, and just about everywhere else would be against a casino.

[usermel]

Yeah VBIllini13, Alot of the issues we have locally are a much because the locals dont want growth as much as it is the fault of the local and state politicians. You made a great point I didn't. Northern Virginia is ALOT more liberal than souther and central and especially western Virginia(Roanoke,Blacksburg and etc.)! The mindset of the locals must change to the majority WANTING and DESIRING growth. This comes at a cost, we must understand theres a tradeoff for growth. I dnt want more crime but, I accept the FACT that growth typically means increases in some areas we may not care for!

I would hate if Northern VA got the casino when we could have had it locally though but, I guess a trip to the more urban part of VA is better than having to travel to Atlantic City,NJ which is much further way! BIG cities and the citizens of those places are ok with the growth and the advantages that come along with it. Our metro is always in my view a two steps forward, two steps back place! As we grow in population other metros have doubled in size and job opportunities etc. I look at Raleigh,NC growth and just say,WOW. I look at Charlotte,NC growth and say double WOW because I cant se how we allow metros pass us time and time again especially when it comes to growing the financial core and its diversity! We lack diversity in our metro in regards to our financial sector but, Waterside can be a catalyst into expanding on that and play a small to moderate part in bringing other tourist attractions to Norfolk that can help bring in city tax dollars and most important jobs(part-time and full time)!

It would be nice to take the ferry from Portsmouth to Norfolk for a night at the casino with my lady or have tours and ferry's come from Hampton and Newport News as well. Heck we would attract bus tours like they do in Dover Downs as well and Atlantic City, NJ!

[varider]

Waterside officially sucks in my book. With all of the activity downtown yesterday, especially on the waterfront... with so many people from all over the world visiting.. and a cruise ship in town.. the ceiling happened to be leaking like a champ. I hate Waterside and hope that it's torn down within the next year.

[Sky06]

From Norfolk.gov:

Waterside Marketplace: Help Shape Its Place, Space & Identity by filling out the survey. There are only 23 days remaining to complete the survey. By April 15, more than 2,230 surveys have been submitted.

Survey

[brikkman]

From Norfolk.gov:

Waterside Marketplace: Help Shape Its Place, Space & Identity by filling out the survey. There are only 23 days remaining to complete the survey. By April 15, more than 2,230 surveys have been submitted.

Survey

Done, I filled that out like a job interview. I plan on attending that public hearing, we need the truth put out there.

[usermel]

What most, not all some remember what Watersides impact was but, for those who dont check this out. Before Waterside and way before MacArthur Center as well as the resurgence of Granby and all the very new development such as Harbor Heights and other great new digs downtown Norfolk. Norfolk was becoming a ghost town downtown. Norfolk was looking for something to ignite its waterfront and up to that point nothing was there. Now, I repeat, this isnt directed at those who like me remember years back how bad a reputation downtown had and how awful Granby Street had become. Waterside is like the thing that rejuvenated fun downtown Norfolk. What killed Waterside was MacArthur and really no blame should be on Waterside nor MacArthur. MacArthur, though Im not a fan has been a bright spot for Norfolk as was Waterside.

My memories of Waterside are tied into my childhood and adulthood. Waterside is a place I took the woman Im with now to for dates early in our relationship and later in it. What is clear is this. Waterside didnt fail due to Waterside itself, it fell due to the resurgence of downtown Norfolk and Granby Street and MacArthur. Lets be nice hear ladies and gents from all age groups and perspectives and classes and environment. Waterside is a subject of topic due t its importance it once had. Downtown used to be centered around Waterside Marketplace before Granby and MacArthur redirected the focus to the center of the financial district for nught time fun. Hey, Waterside used to be were older teens(18-20) and adults went foor fun downtown other than Colley Avenue. Had it not been for Waterside I dont know if Norfolks entertainment value would have existed at all for years or if MacArthur would have been anything to imagine. Waterside is to downtown what early Rock and Rollers like Buddy Holly and Chuck Berry were and are to Rock and Roll, a part of the history that the present should be grateful for doing there part for the present to be as good as it has.

If Waterside goes away or stays I want to say this one thing regardless of how it looks now. Thank you Waterside for being a significant part of Norfolk in the last 25 years and helping Norfolk have a night spot to go to when Granby was on the downside and before MacArthur Center was even a thought!!!! L.G.N.M

Edited May 10, 2010 by usermel

[usermel]

My point for the above post is this. Maybe Waterside has seen its last days, I hope not but, if so, thanks Waterside. Thanks for the god times. Your a shell of yourself and maybe the city is in a pickle as to what to do. If they tear it down, what do your replace it with. Leave it empty or bring in a developer hopefully who builds a 20 story tower? Who knows but, Waterside served its purpose. Maybe its an eye sore now, we it is an eye sore now. I just remeber who would rather remember what Waterside gave us over 30 or older. I was there for the grand opening, unlike MacArthur Center when it opened, I wasnt as excited as I was when Waterside opened.

Man, it was a great event when Waterside opened and from day one on weekends it was packed. Never was a place to truly shop. It was more of a tourist spot for the most part from day one and a place to grab a bite to eat and a beer if you drank and to socialize. You took the kids or date or went to find someone to date. Hopefully Norfolk city leaders either replace Waterside or remake it s good as they can, if not, thanks for the memories Waterside and for the years this place gave it was a success but, all things and people soon will be replaced but, its important we remember what the good times were like. L.G.N.M

[Ghentite]

This is the first proposal I've seen where someone actually put some thought into, I like some of the concepts too.

http://www.altdaily.com/features/news/opinion-news/a-working-plan-for-waterside.html

[brikkman]

This is the first proposal I've seen where someone actually put some thought into, I like some of the concepts too.

http://www.altdaily.com/features/news/opinion-news/a-working-plan-for-waterside.html

That was an exciting read, too bad it was just one person's opinion not likely looked upon the city council. Also, I do not think it should take a year to determine design options and things of that nature, we need the suggestions from real developers who has an interest in making money and bringing Norfolk out of an ENTERTAINMENT SLUMP.

I do agree with some of the ideas such as the Signage (NORFOLK), I even like the Ferris while idea. The roller rink was a good idea and I say "X" the basketball courts and put a upbeat bowling alley that is moderately price with a urban feel to it. Laser tag is an excellent idea; I just do not think there is enough space as compared to va.beach's. There was no mention of eating destinations or removal of the food court feel (which I believe is 40% of watersides problem). Also, if the plan is to expand (as they mentioned as a possibility), they should think about raising a section a few floors. This will do two things: One, it will add more space and density, Two, give them a space to add the signage overlooking the water. Overall, I like the idea, I'm glad someone is excited other than us on the board. They were spot on in a few points; it needs to be a destination. They also need to work some type of deal with the parking deck that is a serious issue. They need to either make the fair cheaper (especially if the garage is paid off), or make deals with the proposed businesses to eat that cost (validating parking).

Maybe this will give some ideas to the Harbor area which I believe is Norfolk's entertainment casual scene future. St. Pauls was the hope, but that's pretty much a dead idea now as they are set on making that new public housing.

EDIT*****

Just to add one point, I think the main/central focus of watersides revitalization should surround a concept that is good for ALL seasons

Edited July 8, 2010 by brikkman

[BFG]

I do agree with some of the ideas such as the Signage (NORFOLK), I even like the Ferris while idea. The roller rink was a good idea and I say "X" the basketball courts and put a upbeat bowling alley that is moderately price with a urban feel to it. Laser tag is an excellent idea; I just do not think there is enough space as compared to va.beach's.

I hope the City Council will take that article into consideration...they had the survey up a few months ago, but not sure if it's still active.

As for the laser tag, I think the old Jillian's could work. That took up a good portion of the second floor, and I think you could fit a playing floor over the bar/arcade portion, and even the club that overlooked the river. The one advantage that Laser Quest in VB has, though, is that the building is tall enough for players to go upstairs (actually up ramps). Not sure if the old Jillian's has enough height for that...

[cpeakesqr]

The idea of a little cheap carnival parked right there in downtown seems silly. Unless it came and went for festivals only, I don't think it'd be good for the city. In the end, it's not a long-term solution for that spot. If we could support a huge ferris wheel like the London Eye, I'd be all for it.

[VBIllini13]

I hope the City Council will take that article into consideration

This really isn't the City Council's decision, it's the public's decision as well as the decision of businesses that choose to relocate there. I think a common misconception by many interested in planning in this region (not necessarily all of you guys) is that just because a city plans for something that it will be up to the local government to ensure it goes there, or put it there. This is most certainly not the case. The most a planning department can do, with the help of the department of development, is rezone the land (which can only be done if it is city owned or if the owner applies for a rezoning) or in the case of development, facilitate in the decision-making process to make it as easy for the new business as possible. This plan is all fine and dandy, but did this author once say how he thought businesses were going to relocate to Waterside? The government obviously can't force them to move there and as of now it is quite an unattractive building. The only thing the city can do at this point is redevelop it, sell Waterside like a Realtor selling a house, and hope that a desired use or business moves in there.

[ronsmytheiii]

This is the first proposal I've seen where someone actually put some thought into, I like some of the concepts too.

http://www.altdaily....-waterside.html

Pretty much the only idea I like is demolishing the Food court to have an outdoor venue, none of the attractions really engage me. To me it would be better to have a farmers market in the outdoor patio and maybe that basketball court but reconfigurable. Use the top floor as city office space,None of this carnival stuff