Northlake Mall

[monsoon]

I am learning so much about Charlotte from talking to you all. I will keep my eye out on the synergies between NorthLake and SouthPark. It would be interesting to see Company A (a F500) decide to move to Charlotte and most of the executives scouting for a spot fall in love with Lake Norman and thereby decide to build a coporate campus just outside of Huntersville. Once one starts, the flood gates would flow open. Since you say that Charlotte controls alot of the zoning around NorthLake I'm curious to see what type of development will take place.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That has already happened. Lowes Home Improvement stores re-located its HQ to Mt Mourne NC, which is next to Davidson. They have built a beautiful campus and its been said they will have upwards of 8000 employees at this locale including the CEO and all of his officers.

This is considered part of the Lake Norman area and ironically the North Commuter Rail line will pass right by the campus.

[csedwards72]

Here is something to think about as well, since the pocket of poverty north of Uptown was mentioned.  It would be in the city's best interest to keep its hands in any redevelopment of Eastland, if for only the fact that if Eastland fails, most of the poorer patrons of that mall will take the bus to Northlake, Mint Hill, and SouthPark, thereby trasfering that "element" to another place.  Northlake, by being closer to Uptown, could potentially recieve the lion's share of these patrons, which could have a bad ripple effect on what's starting out as a very good mall.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There have been some really good points made about Eastland but I don't see the place becoming a dead mall anytime soon; it certainly won't be a regional mall like a Carolina Place once a few more years have passed but it won't be dead like Midtown Square is. Since I like shopping centers I have gone to Eastland a few times just to visit it; there were always plenty of people there, and the urban-type stores there seemed to be doing OK. People who shop at Eastland are looking for urban apparel and moderately-priced things. They aren't looking for things that Tiffany or Brooks Bros. sell. Even if Belk's and Dillard's and every remaining typical mall chain at Eastland closes, there are still plenty of people who live around Eastland who won't have anywhere else to shop for the things they want to buy and stores like Burlington Coat Factory, Fred's, Harold Pener Man of Fashion and other stores will fill vacant spaces.

There are 2 deteriorating malls on North Tryon Street that were apparently typical 1970s malls years ago but that came upon hard times when their surroundings declined: Tryon Mall and Northpark Mall. Those malls are still there, even though their original anchors and typical mall stores fled. They are now mainly filled with 99 cents stores and inexpensive, mom-and-pop and ethnic stores. They are still doing OK. Eastland Mall will just become a bigger Northpark Mall in a few years. It will survive, but just in a different format than its current one.

[Lady Celeste]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank you Cantnot, you are such a treasure. This helps me understand where each mall you guys are referring to is situated.

Is it me or is the westside underserved?

[monsoon]

The West side is very underserved. There is the abandoned Freedom Mall on Freedom drive but changing demographics took down that mall as it is doing to Eastland now.

[Norm2]

Southwest Charlote has been mostly undeveloped (until the last two years maybe) and West Charlotte is known for low income people and being the ghetto (butthats slowly changing and the east side is turning into the ghetto now) and as stated northwest Charlotte is also undeveloped and has mostly low income starter homes.....so yea, West Charlotte is underserved when it comes to retail obviously, plus the airport has been a reason for development staying away, until altely with 485 opening up.

[DigitalSky]

I think with the advent of I-485 going through a vast portion of West Charlotte, we'll see development boom soon and "revitalization" in the older westside neighborhoods that are considered poor.

Thank you Cantnot, you are such a treasure. This helps me understand where each mall you guys are referring to is situated.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

glad I could help!

Edited September 19, 2005 by cantnot

[GreekFreak]

monsoon, when you say surpass SouthPark are you refering to more people simply in the market area of NorthLake?, or are you saying eventually the stores at NorthLake will be more desirable? Personally as the number of people who live in and around Lake Norman increases I can see upscale stores such as Burberry, Parisian etc locating at NorthLake. Any thoughts?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There is no way in hell that Burberry is going to have a second location in Charlotte and since when was Parisian upscale? We have two Parisians in Columbia....it is not that elite trust me

[DigitalSky]

I think Parisian is upscale in the sense it's not as upscale Saks/Nordstrom but not middle-tier like Belk/Hecht's/Dillard's

[StevenRocks]

There have been some really good points made about Eastland but I don't see the place becoming a dead mall anytime soon; it certainly won't be a regional mall like a Carolina Place once a few more years have passed but it won't be dead like Midtown Square is.  Since I like shopping centers I have gone to Eastland a few times just to visit it; there were always plenty of people there, and the urban-type stores there seemed to be doing OK.  People who shop at Eastland are looking for urban apparel and moderately-priced things.  They aren't looking for things that Tiffany or Brooks Bros. sell.  Even if Belk's and Dillard's and every remaining typical mall chain at Eastland closes, there are still plenty of people who live around Eastland who won't have anywhere else to shop for the things they want to buy and stores like Burlington Coat Factory, Fred's, Harold Pener Man of Fashion and other stores will fill vacant spaces. 

There are 2 deteriorating malls on North Tryon Street that were apparently typical 1970s malls years ago but that came upon hard times when their surroundings declined: Tryon Mall and Northpark Mall.  Those malls are still there, even though their original anchors and typical mall stores fled.  They are now mainly filled with 99 cents stores and inexpensive, mom-and-pop and ethnic stores.  They are still doing OK.  Eastland Mall will just become a bigger Northpark Mall in a few years.  It will survive, but just in a different format than its current one.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I hope that you're right, but lately a lot of malls of that vintage have been turned to rubble, like Carolina Circle in Greensboro and South Square in Durham.

While what replaced South Square is better than the mall was for the market, and what is replacing Carolina Circle was needed as well, I think Eastland has a few more positive design aspects than those malls did. I don't believe in saving things for the sake of saving them, but I think, as opposed to the other two examples, it deserves a second life, albeit with major changes to keep it viable.

I think Parisian is upscale in the sense it's not as upscale Saks/Nordstrom but not middle-tier like Belk/Hecht's/Dillard's

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Parisian's a lot like Lord & Taylor used to be in the '90s. Anyway, I'm not looking for one in Charlotte anytime soon.

Northlake will get another department store, but it's really up in the air what it might be. Sears might, but Sears isn't really building mall stores these days. Same with JCPenney. Most of their newer mall stores are replacement locations, not new ones from scratch.

I have a feeling that Northlake would be able to attract a Nordstrom at some point in the future, or possibly Saks Fifth Avenue. Both of those scenarios are a little far-fetched as it is just getting started as a mall, but in a few years, if the nicer stores stick around, it could give SouthPark a run for its money, though likely not with the super-upscale Tiffany & Co. or Louis Vuitton-type stores.

[GreekFreak]

I hope that you're right, but lately a lot of malls of that vintage have been turned to rubble, like Carolina Circle in Greensboro and South Square in Durham. 

While what replaced South Square is better than the mall was for the market, and what is replacing Carolina Circle was needed as well, I think Eastland has a few more positive design aspects than those malls did.  I don't believe in saving things for the sake of saving them, but I think, as opposed to the other two examples, it deserves a second life, albeit with major changes to keep it viable.

Parisian's a lot like Lord & Taylor used to be in the '90s.  Anyway, I'm not looking for one in Charlotte anytime soon.

Northlake will get another department store, but it's really up in the air what it might be.  Sears might, but Sears isn't really building mall stores these days.  Same with JCPenney.  Most of their newer mall stores are replacement locations, not new ones from scratch.

I have a feeling that Northlake would be able to attract a Nordstrom at some point in the future, or possibly Saks Fifth Avenue.  Both of those scenarios are a little far-fetched as it is just getting started as a mall, but in a few years, if the nicer stores stick around, it could give SouthPark a run for its money, though likely not with the super-upscale Tiffany & Co. or Louis Vuitton-type stores.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've been to Lord & Taylor and I've been to Parisian's.........Lord & Taylor carries Ben Sherman and French Connection.....Parisian does not......Parisian to me is just another run of the mill department store....As far as what Northlake should have as it's next anchor.....I think it should be something different becuz all those mediocre stores are getting old......Saks definately needs to be uptown....I think alot of us are getting tired of uptown lacking retail......and since Hechts in Southpark is going to become Bloomingdale's (Hopefully from what ive heard).....it wont make it to Northlake......then Hecht's at northlake will turn into Macy's.......Neiman is going up in SP......so that basically means that there is only a few possibilities left for NL's next anchor.....it's either Lord & Taylor which i doubt becuase they have been closing several stores lately.....or possibly another Nordstrom......

[DigitalSky]

.and since Hechts in Southpark is going to become Bloomingdale's (Hopefully from what ive heard)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't think Hecht's SouthPark will become Bloomingdale's. I had speculated that a while ago when May was bought out by federated... but i'm almost certain it'll be a Macy's.

[GreekFreak]

I don't think Hecht's SouthPark will become Bloomingdale's.  I had speculated that a while ago when May was bought out by federated... but i'm almost certain it'll be a Macy's.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well im not sure but I have friends that work in South Park and they told me it was becominga Bloomy's

[DigitalSky]

hmmm interesting. . . maybe my speculation was correct, i'm good at guessing things sometimes lol

[GreekFreak]

In fact......I have a friend who goes to Johnson & Wales (i went there for a semester too)......he said that Dr. Stanton(the fashion/retail director) told his class that Northlake is bankrupt and that's why it took them so long to open.....it is struggling......but not for long....

[StevenRocks]

In fact......I have a friend who goes to Johnson & Wales (i went there for a semester too)......he said that Dr. Stanton(the fashion/retail director) told his class that Northlake is bankrupt and that's why it took them so long to open.....it is struggling......but not for long....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm not sure where you're getting your information from. Northlake was developed by a partnership between Taubman Centers and Faison Associates, neither of which is anywhere near bankruptcy at last check.

Malls take years of planning as a rule, and when this mall was getting off the ground was right after 9/11, which means that there was a rather depressed financial market, making loans harder to come by even for big developers like Taubman and Faison.

Please note as well that I said Parisian reminded me of Lord & Taylor in the '90s. The Lord & Taylor of today is substantially more upscale than it was a few years ago. Lord & Taylor in the '90s was victim of the blandness that Parisian exemplifies today, which is why when the economy turned a few years ago, Lord & Taylor had to regroup and go upmarket again.

Also, I'm pretty certain than unless Bloomingdale's goes on an major expansion kick after the merger with May Company is integrated that Charlotte will get a Macy's at SouthPark. I'm often wrong, but not about retail, and my gut is telling me this. I hope I'm wrong, in fact.

[monsoon]

You know I have been in several Nieman Marcus stores in Dallas (their home base) and I don't see what is so upscale about it. It reminded me of a higher tier Belks.

Likewise I've been to Saks and Belks and I just didn't see what was so special about it. I honestly don't think most people care.

[csedwards72]

There is no way in hell that Burberry is going to have a second location in Charlotte and since when was Parisian upscale?

Edited September 19, 2005 by csedwards72

[SmellyCat]

You know I have been in several Nieman Marcus stores in Dallas (their home base) and I don't see what is so upscale about it.  It reminded me of a higher tier Belks.   

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hence the name Needless Markups.

[Miesian Corners]

But their chocolate chip cookies are killer!

[A2]

Parisian is upscale compared to Belk's and Dillard's.

Edited September 19, 2005 by A219724

[csedwards72]

The one's in Birmingham are really nice. The one at the Galleria and Dowtown B'ham are VERY nice. Speaking of dtown retail, why is it that a city half the size of CLT can have a nice department store in the center city and not us ???

A2

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good question- although Charlotte has a convenience-store sized Belk's uptown that sells a few things (but not clothes)- and why hasn't Parisian opened small department stores in larger Southern cities to target office workers, given that the Parisian in downtown Birmingham seems to do well?

Edited September 19, 2005 by csedwards72

[DigitalSky]

Parisian is in virtually all the other southeast states, I don't know why they never did expand into NC.

[Lady Celeste]

You know I have been in several Nieman Marcus stores in Dallas (their home base) and I don't see what is so upscale about it.

Edited September 19, 2005 by Lady Celeste

[monsoon]

hmm. Its probably because I can't tell the difference between a $30,000 Hermes Croc Birkin Bag and a $30 Bag at Target. They all look like purses to me.

[dubone]

not that this contributes much to this thread... but my wife and i went up to northlake on saturday. it was definitely nicer than carolina place, by far, and according to my wife, the stores they have "are pretty nice", which means nothing to me, but obviously means she'll be trekking up there sometimes for clothes.

it was unbelievably packed, which was so annoying for us, but also good for business. we had to wait in long lines to pay, and those stores weren't even using all their registers. it was also really frustrating as the cellphone towers aren't up yet or something, so service was really spotty.

i just kept thinking about how much the transit tax must be collecting this weekend at northlake.... and i have to imagine that many/most(?) of those shoppers were coming from people who would otherwise either not be shopping at all, or would have been at a non-mecklenburg mall.

ch-ching, ch-ching.