Ally Charlotte Center (f/k/a Tryon Place) - 26 floors - 427'

[ES Charlotte]

15 minutes ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

I couldn't agree more. I think what I'm trying to say is "World Class" might be a subjective label that shouldn't be strived for.

Why are you still having this conversation? haha Defense is your case isn't necessary 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Dale said:

World class is paying $15 for a plate of ramen noodles.

You can get King Crab Ramen at Fahrenheit for $40. So I guess Charlotte is 2.5x world class

[caterpillar2]

4 hours ago, elrodvt said:

We're obviously on totally different bandwidths when you think Dallas, Atlanta and Houston are world class cities. To each his own I guess. 

Who should I consider?  I am sure your formula is the one the world uses. 

[caterpillar2]

2 hours ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

okay, how about this, its never going to catch up to the world class cities of today. There is a big difference in the climate that those cities came into existence under. Most of these big cities were built using government money. They have their fabulous concert halls, world class transit stations, art museums etc. Things just don't get built like that anymore.

I walked around Glasgow Scotland last weekend, it was once the Number 2 city in the English Empire and it showed. The Kelvingrove Museum is one of the the most stunning buildings I've ever seen, but you know what it was filled with? A third rate museum that combined Natural History, Arms & Armour and French Expressionism, it was weird.

Charlotte barely has an arts endowment, so museums will never be crazy, every single person whines about their tax dollars going to build cultural venues and private companies sure aren't doing the job.

Besides that, the government owns transportation, i.e. British Rail which is extremely costly to use.  We are already crying about the taxes we pay which are some of the lowest in the western world.  As you say, we are limited when we have to create venues with our own funding.  One thing, my friends from Manchester are going to be mad at you for saying that Glasgow is number two. You better go hide. 

[Guest]

Besides that, the government owns transportation, i.e. British Rail which is extremely costly to use.  We are already crying about the taxes we pay which are some of the lowest in the western world.  As you say, we are limited when we have to create venues with our own funding.  One thing, my friends from Manchester are going to be mad at you for saying that Glasgow is number two. You better go hide. [emoji4]

Haha! Well I said "was." As in when they still made all the ships for the British navy. That ship sailed long ago, lol.


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[Norm2]

Oooook so...to get us back on topic I will chime in here. The design of this building is OK. I would like it more if I had not seen the original design, but in the end how it relates to and engages the street is much more important than how the building looks in a photo of the skyline. I don't like that the building is now aiming to get restaurants instead of actual retailers, but I will cop that to the value engineering and the fact that Legacy would suck up any retailers that are willing to take the risk in locating Uptown. I feel Uptown is ready for real retail, but I am sure that most retailers still view it as a risk.

[JRNYP2C]

21 hours ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

Just a simple extra embellishment would have gone a LONG WAY


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I forgot about our skyline resembling the game Tetris......but I digress!!

[SydneyCarton]

5 hours ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

I couldn't agree more. I think what I'm trying to say is "World Class" might be a subjective label that shouldn't be strived for.

This is a touchy subject for people who love cities that aren't world class, and I respect Rick's candor.  

In any event, I don't think that whether a city is truly world class is subjective.  Instead, it's very akin to the Supreme Court's definition of obscenity: i.e., "you know it when you see it."  No one from Paris or London will ever say that Dallas or Atlanta, let alone Charlotte, are world-class.  Then again, who cares?

With respect to this project, I think it is a nice enough building.  Furthermore, a restaurant will add to urban vitality for more than a Gap would.  A Gap would be closed by 9 -- if not earlier.  A bustling restaurant will have crowds until after midnight.

Edited September 22, 2017 by SydneyCarton

[Synopsis101]

Did Duke Energy consider moving into Tryon Place?

[asthasr]

I actually like the building. I think that having "plain" buildings at mid-height is crucial to having a sense of density and a skyline that doesn't just look like a jumble of crowns. Not just that, but having fancy sky-scrapers isn't what makes a city: if you look at Tokyo's many skylines, you'll see only buildings that look comparatively "plain," yet I'd certainly say Tokyo is "world class" despite the seismic limitations they have. Same for Hong Kong, which is mostly cut-and-paste tower blocks.

Now, is Charlotte "world-class?" Eh. We're not the center of a global industry, we're not a capital of a nation, we're not exceptionally large, we don't have any particularly notable cultural institutions or universities. Is Lianyungang a world-class city? (It's city of comparable population and geographic size in China.)

We're not a bad place to live, though. I'll take that any day.

[Missmylab4]

Yes, I believe Duke was the original anchor tenant. They were able to buy the plot of land next to the convention center and decided they'd rather be in control of their own land instead of leasing from Crecent. We now get to wait and see what Duke comes up with, I'd think it would be pretty soon, as they were really close to signing at Tryon Place. As many have said on here I believe there leased space at Duke Energy Tower is rolling soon.

[caterpillar2]

10 hours ago, SydneyCarton said:

This is a touchy subject for people who love cities that aren't world class, and I respect Rick's candor.  

In any event, I don't think that whether a city is truly world class is subjective.  Instead, it's very akin to the Supreme Court's definition of obscenity: i.e., "you know it when you see it."  No one from Paris or London will ever say that Dallas or Atlanta, let alone Charlotte, are world-class.  Then again, who cares?

With respect to this project, I think it is a nice enough building.  Furthermore, a restaurant will add to urban vitality for more than a Gap would.  A Gap would be closed by 9 -- if not earlier.  A bustling restaurant will have crowds until after midnight.

Just a quick note. Dallas is the 10th largest economy in the world and Atlanta is 18th and also has the largest/busiest airport in the world. I guess the term "world class" is truly nebulous.  Also, I believe that there are lots of people in Paris and London that would say that Dallas or Atlanta are world class cities.  In respect to Gap, we need more clothes shopping venues. There are tons of restaurants and bars. What we need is diversity. Hell, I don't even know if there is a camera shop or a tailor in uptown Charlotte? I will be happy with anything, but I would like to see boutiques and such. 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, caterpillar2 said:

Just a quick note. Dallas is the 10th largest economy in the world and Atlanta is 18th and also has the largest/busiest airport in the world. I guess the term "world class" is truly nebulous.  Also, I believe that there are lots of people in Paris and London that would say that Dallas or Atlanta are world class cities.  In respect to Gap, we need more clothes shopping venues. There are tons of restaurants and bars. What we need is diversity. Hell, I don't even know if there is a camera shop or a tailor in uptown Charlotte? I will be happy with anything, but I would like to see boutiques and such. 

Camera Shop? No, Biggs is the closest on Kings. Tailor... there are several of them. Hell you can have a full suit custom made for you uptown, last time I was in town I had a suit made for me at @Jayvee's suggestion.

[QCxpat]

 

59 minutes ago, asthasr said:

I actually like the building. I think that having "plain" buildings at mid-height is crucial to having a sense of density and a skyline that doesn't just look like a jumble of crowns. Not just that, but having fancy sky-scrapers isn't what makes a city: if you look at Tokyo's many skylines, you'll see only buildings that look comparatively "plain," yet I'd certainly say Tokyo is "world class" despite the seismic limitations they have. Same for Hong Kong, which is mostly cut-and-paste tower blocks.

Now, is Charlotte "world-class?" Eh. We're not the center of a global industry, we're not a capital of a nation, we're not exceptionally large, we don't have any particularly notable cultural institutions or universities. Is Lianyungang a world-class city? (It's city of comparable population and geographic size in China.)

We're not a bad place to live, though. I'll take that any day.

Here is one attempt by The Globalization and World Cities Research Network at Loughborough University in England to identify and compare 307 World Cities.  Note that both Charlotte and Raleigh are ranked and considered to be "Gamma-" cities, defined as the 59 cities that link smaller economic regions into the world economy.   See link at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Globalization_and_World_Cities_Research_Network

Globalization and World Cities Research Network

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaThe Globalization and World Cities Research Network, commonly abbreviated to GaWC, is a think tank that studies the relationships between world cities in the context of globalization. It is based in the geography department of Loughborough University in England.

GaWC was founded by Peter J. Taylor in 1998,^[1] Together with Jon Beaverstock and Richard G. Smith, they create the GaWC's bi-annual categorization of world cities into "Alpha", "Beta" and "Gamma" tiers, based upon their international connectedness.^[2]

The GaWC examines cities worldwide to narrow them down to a roster of 307 world cities, then ranks these based on their connectivity through four "advanced producer services": accountancy, advertising, banking/finance, and law.^[3] The GaWC inventory ranks city economics more heavily than political or cultural factors. Beyond the categories of "Alpha" world cities (with four sub-categories), "Beta" world cities (three sub-categories) and "Gamma" world cities (three sub-categories), the GaWC cities include additional cities at "High sufficiency" and "Sufficiency" level.

The following is a general guide to the rankings as of the most recent (2016) update:^[4]

Alpha++ cities are vastly more integrated with the global economy than all other cities. ^[4]

Alpha+ cities are the eight cities that complement London and New York City by filling advanced service niches for the global economy.^[4]

Alpha and Alpha- cities are the 13 and 22 cities, respectively, that link major economic regions into the world economy.^[4]

The GaWC global cities according to the 2016 study:

Beta level cities are the 78 cities that link moderate economic regions into the world economy.^[4]

Gamma level cities are the 59 cities that link smaller economic regions into the world economy.^[4]

High Sufficiency level cities are the 41 cities that have a high degree of accountancy, advertising, banking/finance, and law services so as not to be dependent on world cities.^[4]

Sufficiency level cities are the 84 cities that have a sufficient degree of services so as not to be obviously dependent on world cities.^[4]

The World According to GaWC 2016

 

 

 

 

[KJHburg]

Trinity Partners is advertising 186,000 sq ft in the existing Ally Center where as the building was 100% leased before.  Good news for them the neighborhood around them has gotten better and better since 2009/2010 and they have a few years to market the space.  http://www.trinity-partners.com/listing/ally-center/

This being said I think only one more large office tower is possible at least in the next 3-5 years and that would be one for US Bank.  Maybe at Legacy as some have speculated. But given the amount of space on the market in a few years I dont think you will see any more towers announced uptown  (maybe some renovations) except for a US Bank anchored tower. 

There will be plenty of space for companies to expand or move to with chunks available in 300 South Tryon,  615 S College, rest of the BOAT tower at Legacy and the rest of Ally Center at Tryon Place tower.   This development cycle maybe coming to a close with the above noted exception.    Current vacancy is around 9.5% uptown probably will hit 15% in a few years still not bad though. 

Plus the new Duke Energy tower between St Peters and Harvey B Gantt museum. 

Edited September 22, 2017 by KJHburg
forgot about Duke

[Guest]

1 minute ago, KJHburg said:

Trinity Partners is advertising 186,000 sq ft in the existing Ally Center where as the building was 100% leased before.  Good news for them the neighborhood around them has gotten better and better since 2009/2010 and they have a few years to market the space.  http://www.trinity-partners.com/listing/ally-center/

This being said I think only one more large office tower is possible at least in the next 3-5 years and that would be one for US Bank.  Maybe at Legacy as some have speculated. But given the amount of space on the market in a few years I dont think you will see any more towers announced uptown  (maybe some renovations) except for a US Bank anchored tower. 

There will be plenty of space for companies to expand or move to with chunks available in 300 South Tryon,  615 S College, rest of the BOAT tower at Legacy and the rest of Ally Center at Tryon Place tower.   This development cycle maybe coming to a close with the above noted exception.    Current vacancy is around 9.5% uptown probably will hit 15% in a few years still not bad though. 

And Duke, and possibly Wells Fargo, they were hunting at one point about a year ago.

Edited September 22, 2017 by Guest

[KJHburg]

I forgot about Duke and I think that is going to happen and it depends if Wells can push enough of Duke out their own DEC building they (Wells) may not have build.  But Wells is growing here but I have heard they may do additional towers at Ballantyne. 

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

I forgot about Duke and I think that is going to happen and it depends if Wells can push enough of Duke out their own DEC building they (Wells) may not have build.  But Wells is growing here but I have heard they may do additional towers at Ballantyne. 

Duke is absolutely going to happen. And I wouldn't put it passed them to stay in DEC, because who would leave that beautiful corp. center, and occupy a new tower as well. Theres enough people scattered all throughout the state that could be moved back to Charlotte at a moments notice.

[caterpillar2]

3 hours ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

Camera Shop? No, Biggs is the closest on Kings. Tailor... there are several of them. Hell you can have a full suit custom made for you uptown, last time I was in town I had a suit made for me at @Jayvee's suggestion.

I meant in uptown. I know there are plenty around town, but I can't think of anything like either having a shop on Tryon or Trade Streets, our main streets.  There is a huge shortage of small shops uptown. I suppose that it is because most places have such huge spaces to rent and it is simply too difficult for a small shop owner to make enough money to stay open.  They were abundant decades ago on these streets. They have gone the way of the malls unfortunately.  With the huge influx of newcomers, there will have to be a resurgence of venues to fill the needs of all the people.  I see boutiques and shops  popping up on South Boulevard. I hope they keep expanding over to uptown.

[caterpillar2]

3 hours ago, QCxpat said:

 

Here is one attempt by The Globalization and World Cities Research Network at Loughborough University in England to identify and compare 307 World Cities.  Note that both Charlotte and Raleigh are ranked and considered to be "Gamma-" cities, defined as the 59 cities that link smaller economic regions into the world economy.   See link at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Globalization_and_World_Cities_Research_Network

Globalization and World Cities Research Network

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaThe Globalization and World Cities Research Network, commonly abbreviated to GaWC, is a think tank that studies the relationships between world cities in the context of globalization. It is based in the geography department of Loughborough University in England.

GaWC was founded by Peter J. Taylor in 1998,^[1] Together with Jon Beaverstock and Richard G. Smith, they create the GaWC's bi-annual categorization of world cities into "Alpha", "Beta" and "Gamma" tiers, based upon their international connectedness.^[2]

The GaWC examines cities worldwide to narrow them down to a roster of 307 world cities, then ranks these based on their connectivity through four "advanced producer services": accountancy, advertising, banking/finance, and law.^[3] The GaWC inventory ranks city economics more heavily than political or cultural factors. Beyond the categories of "Alpha" world cities (with four sub-categories), "Beta" world cities (three sub-categories) and "Gamma" world cities (three sub-categories), the GaWC cities include additional cities at "High sufficiency" and "Sufficiency" level.

The following is a general guide to the rankings as of the most recent (2016) update:^[4]

Alpha++ cities are vastly more integrated with the global economy than all other cities. ^[4]

Alpha+ cities are the eight cities that complement London and New York City by filling advanced service niches for the global economy.^[4]

Alpha and Alpha- cities are the 13 and 22 cities, respectively, that link major economic regions into the world economy.^[4]

The GaWC global cities according to the 2016 study:

Beta level cities are the 78 cities that link moderate economic regions into the world economy.^[4]

Gamma level cities are the 59 cities that link smaller economic regions into the world economy.^[4]

High Sufficiency level cities are the 41 cities that have a high degree of accountancy, advertising, banking/finance, and law services so as not to be dependent on world cities.^[4]

Sufficiency level cities are the 84 cities that have a sufficient degree of services so as not to be obviously dependent on world cities.^[4]

The World According to GaWC 2016

 

Wow! This is really questionable. 

 

 

 

Edited September 22, 2017 by caterpillar2

[RiverwoodCLT]

3 hours ago, QCxpat said:

 

Here is one attempt by The Globalization and World Cities Research Network at Loughborough University in England to identify and compare 307 World Cities.  Note that both Charlotte and Raleigh are ranked and considered to be "Gamma-" cities, defined as the 59 cities that link smaller economic regions into the world economy.   See link at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Globalization_and_World_Cities_Research_Network

Globalization and World Cities Research Network

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaThe Globalization and World Cities Research Network, commonly abbreviated to GaWC, is a think tank that studies the relationships between world cities in the context of globalization. It is based in the geography department of Loughborough University in England.

GaWC was founded by Peter J. Taylor in 1998,^[1] Together with Jon Beaverstock and Richard G. Smith, they create the GaWC's bi-annual categorization of world cities into "Alpha", "Beta" and "Gamma" tiers, based upon their international connectedness.^[2]

The GaWC examines cities worldwide to narrow them down to a roster of 307 world cities, then ranks these based on their connectivity through four "advanced producer services": accountancy, advertising, banking/finance, and law.^[3] The GaWC inventory ranks city economics more heavily than political or cultural factors. Beyond the categories of "Alpha" world cities (with four sub-categories), "Beta" world cities (three sub-categories) and "Gamma" world cities (three sub-categories), the GaWC cities include additional cities at "High sufficiency" and "Sufficiency" level.

The following is a general guide to the rankings as of the most recent (2016) update:^[4]

Alpha++ cities are vastly more integrated with the global economy than all other cities. ^[4]

Alpha+ cities are the eight cities that complement London and New York City by filling advanced service niches for the global economy.^[4]

Alpha and Alpha- cities are the 13 and 22 cities, respectively, that link major economic regions into the world economy.^[4]

The GaWC global cities according to the 2016 study:

Beta level cities are the 78 cities that link moderate economic regions into the world economy.^[4]

Gamma level cities are the 59 cities that link smaller economic regions into the world economy.^[4]

High Sufficiency level cities are the 41 cities that have a high degree of accountancy, advertising, banking/finance, and law services so as not to be dependent on world cities.^[4]

Sufficiency level cities are the 84 cities that have a sufficient degree of services so as not to be obviously dependent on world cities.^[4]

The World According to GaWC 2016

Gamma+ world cities: Bristol, St. Petersburg, Charlotte, Lahore, Baltimore, Jeddah, Zagreb, Adelaide, Durban, Santo Domingo, San Salvador, St Louis, Islamabad, Guayaquil, Cologne, Phoenix, Georgetown (CI), Osaka, Tampa

Gamma world cities: Valencia (SP), Glasgow, San Jose (US), San Juan, Marseille, Cincinnatti, Guadalajara, Leeds, Baku, Tallinn, Vilnius, Colombo, Raleigh, Ankara, Belfast, Milwaukee, Muscat, Ljubljana

http://www.spottedbylocals.com/blog/alpha-beta-and-gamma-cities/

 

 

[QCxpat]

Big thanks to @RiverwoodCLT for the update of the Globalization and World Cities Network (GaWC) data.   And very happy news to see that Charlotte has moved up 2 rank orders from Gamma- to Gamma+.   Smart catch! 

[caterpillar2]

27 minutes ago, QCxpat said:

Big thanks to @RiverwoodCLT for the update of the Globalization and World Cities Network (GaWC) data.   And very happy news to see that Charlotte has moved up 2 rank orders from Gamma- to Gamma+.   Smart catch! 

I agree. It was obviously a mistake. There were several cities that many of knew that were in a lesser status than Charlotte on a worldwide scale. It might have been devised by a "think tank" at the university, but I question what they were thinking about and their credibility in regards to the gamma ratings.  I also question/challenge the accuracy of placing some of those in the bata area ahead of us.   
 

[Missmylab4]

Off Topic. 

[15895]

On 9/20/2017 at 10:01 AM, Jayvee said:

 

 

Here we go. 

Ally Charlotte Center (let’s change the name of the thread)

26 stories

742k SF office, 400k of which is ally

30k retail

300+ room luxury hotel

 

 

I think Legacy, Duke & Ally will look great together at Stonewall & Tryon. They contrast great together. I think the better (In my mind) older rendering would've blended in with DEC.