2030 Transit Plan

[uptownliving]

None of these are excuses for so much money being wasted on this project.

[monsoon]

When they are building 11 foot rooms for 11.5 foot boilers, and trying to install ticket machines before the platform are being built, then there is a lot of waste going on. Also, incompetance has caused this schedule to slip by years which also wastes a lot of money. It's all well documented on this site and to ask the question "where do you think there is waste" is a bit disingenious.

[uptownliving]

LOL, I wasn't asking if there was waste on this project. I was asking where you thought the waste was. But if it makes you feel better to call me disingenious then do what you gotta do.

Some people around here think the entire project is a waste.

[monsoon]

Well the point is that Tober has made that perception worse. He as done very little to engage the public on this project except in a negative fashion. I really think we need someone else running CATS that could think out of the box a bit and get the public excited about the transit plan.

[BobbyRobert]

the idiots over on the Charlotte.com comment boards mentioned that the sales tax repeal petition drive has accelerated (they specifically mention CPCC and the county courthouse as sites where signiture collectors were active yesterday). I had assumed that this insanity had died off. Anyone have any updates on the petition drive?

(apologies if this is the wrong thread for this)

[MZT]

Right now I'd still lay odds they won't get enough signatures. It's hard to get enough, that's why so few locally initiated questions ever appear on the ballot. Are there really that many people "fired up" about a half cent sales tax?

Generally you need about an extra third above the required threshold, too. Many signatures get thrown out.

[monsoon]

I moved the last two posts to this thread as the effort to repeal the transit tax will not have any effect on the Blue Line under construction. Funding for that has already been secured. A repeal of the transit tax would greatly affect the remaining build out of the 2030 plan and it would also cripple the bus service. The GOP politicians that are pushing for its repeal are being irresponsible when you consider this tax is enabling 25 million mass transit trips/year.

[ChiefJoJo]

I thought you all might be interested in this post summarizing proposed changes in FTA procedues and rating for future transit projects. These rules would definitely have an impact on future federal funding of the streetcar, NE LRT, and SE BRT/LRT lines. I have read the whole thing (nor do I intend to ) but upon a first glance, the streetcar project seems to be the most likely impacted project (positive I think) if it pursued via Small Starts.

The "New Starts" rules--if approved--would go into effect in FY 2009, and so the NE line would be subject to these rules.

[MZT]

I got to watch a signature gatherer at the CATS transportation center, collecting signatures for the sales tax repeal initiative yesterday.

It's kind of weirdly ironic. Gathering names, in a public area that is the most likely to support transit...

Although I didn't sign, it's possibly a good thing to see some public discontent. If it actually got on the ballot, maybe some visible house cleaning would take place at CATS before the election.

[A2]

the idiots over on the Charlotte.com comment boards mentioned that the sales tax repeal petition drive has accelerated (they specifically mention CPCC and the county courthouse as sites where signiture collectors were active yesterday). I had assumed that this insanity had died off. Anyone have any updates on the petition drive?

(apologies if this is the wrong thread for this)

[peaceloveunderstanding]

They are a third of the way of getting enough signatures to bring it to a vote.

[MZT]

Petitions do get thrown out, if it can be demonstrated that people did not understand what they were signing. But I think it would stand up under scrutiny that "This petition is for a reduction in sales tax". People don't have to understand the details. They can do so, when the election pamphlets come out.

The judges in Greensboro for example have been lenient on some improperly worded petitons... the assumption is that grass roots democracy has some room to be sloppy and confusing.

[monsoon]

Keep in mind that if they are successful in getting enough signatures, then it doesn't mean the tax will be repealed. It means there will be a measure on the ballot to have the voters decide if it should be repealed. I get the feeling if the South LRT had been finished on schedule and on budget we would not be having this discussion but since this isn't the case, I hope they are considering what it means for the public to have to decide this again. Hopefully they will come up with a plan to address the discontent that has come from the way the LRT has been handled. It's important to the long term prospects of the metro that they do.

[Richhamleigh, DC]

I just spent some time with the "petitioners" in front of the Harris Teeter at Rosedale. They were asked by the police to leave; the police would depart, they would come back, and so on and on - over and over. Finally, three police showed up and they finally disappeared...at least temporarily tonight. These petitioners are not from Charlotte or even NC; they are with the same company that went into Massachusetts to overturn gay marriage and mislead people into signing the petitions there. Their tactics are not too different here. The ask people if they want to lower the sales tax. Period. When my little group forced them to tell people the total truth, they used lies and fearmongering telling people supporting transit would raise crime, that the transit system would cost more than $8 billion, etc.. They will be at the Huntersville Post Office on Monday and at Birkdale Village at the Starbucks tomorrow, Sunday, February 25. Please help us to make sure they are telling people the truth. If people want to sign it after they know the facts, that's their right; but they should at least know that these paid mercenaries are not telling them the whole truth or even part of the truth.

[monsoon]

It's an interesting story. My next door neighbors young son has a job bagging groceries there and he says he didn't see anything like this at the place. (I will admit he isn't the most observant lad when it comes to these sort of things) In any case, I need to go to the post office on Monday so I will look for them.

[uptownliving]

At tonight's MTC meeting they discussed the Petition Drive to repeal the 1/2 Cent Sales Tax.

Mayor McCrory has instructed staff to come up with a plan for CATS if the 1/2 Cent Sales Tax is repealed. I ran some quick and dirty numbers and the doomsday scenario if the 1/2 Cent Sales Tax is repealed is that about 60% of the Bus Service (Local and Express) would have to be cut and the South LRT line shut down. To add insult to injury if the South LRT line is shut down then the Feds will request that the FFGA be refunded to the tune of $193M.

Mayor Phillips of Huntersville was particularly peaved about the Petition Drive repeating what others have posted on here that they are misleading people by just asking them if they want to lower taxes to sign the petition. She even brought one of the petitions to the meeting.

I certainly hope this petition drive goes nowhere...otherwise 10 years of hard work by this community will go down the drain.

[dubone]

My guess is that it wouldn't actually shut down the south line, but rather the city would simply have to include the operations cost in its main budget, causing a property tax increase.

We have responsibilities to continue transit, and right now the city's core budget is protected from those costs because there is a county wide sales tax.

Maybe we should form a group asking for signatures for vote to increase the transit tax. We could say 'Sign here to prevent an increase to your property taxes'.

I have a feeling that when that information gets out to people, they won't vote to repeal it in a real vote.

[Nomanizan]

Maybe we should form a group asking for signatures for vote to increase the transit tax. We could say 'Sign here to prevent an increase to your property taxes'.

I have a feeling that when that information gets out to people, they won't vote to repeal it in a real vote.

[MZT]

Maybe it's time to consolidate the petition debate since it's clogging up the transit threads.

But I see passage as extremely unlikely. There are more CATS riders than there were in 1998, and it sounds like the northern towns are still behind their line.

This isn't really a grass-roots petition drive. It's funded by politcal hacks in Raleigh. The same thing happens with state initiatives out west. The money to pay for the signature gathering often comes from out of state groups seeking a political victory "somewhere".

I think breaking up CMS could have support though, if that ever got on the ballot. There is much more local bile to be found on that issue.

[cinco]

i wish the charlotte observer would do it's job and do a high profile piece on the manipulation going on right now.... this is the kinda stuff that could snowball and have a serious effect on our city.

[monsoon]

I will have to check with him to be sure, but I believe Neo has a web domain registered that could be used to put up a webpage on why the transit tax should not be repealed. It's there if some of you want to volunteer to put something up for it. We get a lot of coverage on this site locally and it could help to get the word out on why this petition should not be signed.

We would run it off the UrbanPlanet server so there would be no cost to operate it.

[Spartan]

I was disheartened to read the article in the Observer today about the so-called "progress" of these whackos. It seems to me that given the resounding success of CAT since the implementation of the sales tax and the fact that a two digit vote in favor of the tax in the 90s is a clear indication of what people in Mecklenburg County want as well as the government's response to that demand.

[Neo]

I will have to check with him to be sure, but I believe Neo has a web domain registered that could be used to put up a webpage on why the transit tax should not be repealed. It's there if some of you want to volunteer to put something up for it. We get a lot of coverage on this site locally and it could help to get the word out on why this petition should not be signed.

We would run it off the UrbanPlanet server so there would be no cost to operate it.

That is correct, I own the domain:

transitfacts.com

I would be more than happy to host any content that someone on UP comes up with in opposition to this transit tax repeal petition in addition to any facts supporting transit in Charlotte and even anywhere in the world. It would be hosted at no charge obviously, I just need the content to put up. I can pretty the site up, just need the meat.

[uptownliving]

I ran some numbers and the Charlotte Property Tax Rate would have to increase about 30% to fully cover the loss of the 1/2 Cent Sales Tax. It would be political suicide for the local politicians to do that, so I think its realisitic to expect drastic cuts in CATS service if this referendum were to be succusful.

[dubone]

i wish the charlotte observer would do it's job and do a high profile piece on the manipulation going on right now.... this is the kinda stuff that could snowball and have a serious effect on our city.