SkyHouse Charlotte, Publix and 10Tryon Tower in 4th Ward

[Prodev]

So something like this would make sense. It'd be like the Ally Bank, Catalyst, Mint St Apartments Complex.

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That's exactly how I was picturing it. 

[nowensone]

So something like this would make sense. It'd be like the Ally Bank, Catalyst, Mint St Apartments Complex.

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I like that, as to the idea of Publix doing something that would be a crown jewel, your positioning of it means there is the parking lot directly across the street that could be turned into an open air quasi farmers market kind of concept, but operated by them.

[Matthew.Brendan]

This is going to be such a great change for that section of N Tryon!

edit: Especially if Publix comes through, what a game changer. Maybe 2014 will finally be the year of Uptown Retail!

Edited August 25, 2013 by melk

[Guest]

heck no! slap that publix at the base of the parking deck and use the extra space for a hotel   access for the deck could go between/under the hotel and office

Problem is, Skyhouse 1 and Parking Deck are approves as is, so the rest would be phases. I Guess they could build publix into the second half of the parking deck... 

[HopHead]

Whoa. What the hay? When did this change for Skyhouse come about? This sounds very exciting...

[Guest]

Whoa. What the hay? When did this change for Skyhouse come about? This sounds very exciting...

Well its not official. On August 1st, the project description changed to 2 residential towers, 640 units, and Grubb has always been planning a office tower. Another poster mentioned that "something was afoot" at Days Inn, and Prodev mentioned that Publix was rumored to be looking at this site for a "crown gem" of a development. So we are putting 1+1+1+1 together. Too many coincidences not to be correct. 

[DMann]

If one building blocks the second it will not work, look for a high end lo rise on ninth, and a 40 story high rise on 10th.

[ah59396]

Is this you guessing or have you heard something along these lines? Because 40 stories would be huge on 10th street.

[nowensone]

Yeah this is either getting very interesting or yet another 4 year stagnant pool of waiting.  Sorry for the Madden moment.

[ssh214]

I love all these changes with this site but I feel like Publix would be much better off having a location in 3rd Ward then only a few blocks away from Harris Teeter. I live right down the street from this project on Church and 7th and it just doesn't make sense to have these two locations so close to each other. Especially with the that I heard not to long ago on a different forum that there was talks of expanding the HT into a full location across the street.

[15895]

^ If Publix is even looking at the site.

[DMann]

Is this you guessing or have you heard something along these lines? Because 40 stories would be huge on 10th street.

Pure speculation, but totally blocking one residential building with another would significantly decrease the desirability of the blocked tower.  Something on Church and Ninth more reflective of ChapelWatch with a taller building on 10th would make more sense.  While I cannot see Publix that far north on Tryon, I could see them in the combined Old Reid's and Queen City Q space, again, pure speculation.

[HopHead]

If a Publix did go here, it would only be a 2 block walk to the 9th street station for the BLE, correct?

[Guest]

^ If Publix is even looking at the site.

Thats what we have been hearing. I've heard it from multiple people, and apparently so has Prodev. 

Pure speculation, but totally blocking one residential building with another would significantly decrease the desirability of the blocked tower.  Something on Church and Ninth more reflective of ChapelWatch with a taller building on 10th would make more sense.  While I cannot see Publix that far north on Tryon, I could see them in the combined Old Reid's and Queen City Q space, again, pure speculation.

I don't think 7th Street Public Market or Queen City Q are going anywhere, also those combined spaces are about 20k sq feet too small.

[nonillogical]

I don't think 7th Street Public Market or Queen City Q are going anywhere, also those combined spaces are about 20k sq feet too small.

Agreed, I got a little scared that something had happened when I read that idea! 7th street market and Queen City Q going away for a Publix would be a big net loss in my opinion. 

[atlrvr]

I don't understand the idea of two towers of unequal height.  I floated the prospect of twin towers a couple of months ago, and news that something may be happening with the Center City Inn site would indicate that Novare is pursuing that.  Unless someone has heard something to the contrary, I can't imagine Novare deviating from their prototype apartment buildings, because the cost savings from the regurgitation of the same design is what allows these to be built at a cost low enough to allow rentals.

 

I understand the view corridor concerns, given the orientation relative to the skyline, but 1) they are rentals, so the view premium is less than condos, 2) i stronly suspect that rental premiums for staggered heights to maximize views would be less than justifying construction/re-engineering costs for a 40 story tower.

 

I believe Ricky Davis Jrs site plan is the ultimate outcome, though I know nothing about Publix's interest in the site, and had always assume that corner of the site would just be earmarked for "future development", whether it was additional office, hotel, or perhap retail.

[dubone]

I heard about the Publix rumor this Spring, but sort of didn't wrap my head around it because of the existing retail space in SkyHouse was too small.  But given the changes in scope, I am really optimistic there is something to it.   Obviously given the budget they're putting into the SouthEnd location, there is a real chance to build a full sized grocer downtown that really puts pressure on HT.   I think the thinking on this site would be to pull existing HT traffic in 4th Ward away, while better serving 1st Ward, and tying better into the Lynx and growth potential in the Levine Asphalt Village.

 

Leveling the Days/Whatever Inn is absolutely a must do, and it has a surprising percentage of the block.  I could see the Publix being the entire Days Inn site and the office tower component being the second Skyhouse. 

 

I will be ecstatic for the Publix and new apartment buildings to go up on this block because of where I live, but I think there is solid reasoning once you think about it.   The grocery market alone will give a major boost to developability in the Hal Marshall and Levine blocks, but with the light rail station going in, there really seems to be an opportunity to remake this part of town finally and reduce the significant impact of homelessness in the area.  

[kermit]

So, based on the sketch above, what could go on top of Publix? I can't imagine that Tryon street frontage would be cheap enough to make a grocery store alone sensible (or desirable from an urbanist perspective).

[Prodev]

So, based on the sketch above, what could go on top of Publix? I can't imagine that Tryon street frontage would be cheap enough to make a grocery store alone sensible (or desirable from an urbanist perspective).

My guess is they'd do one of two things. 1- do a store similar to South End, but with shop space fronting tryon and the parking behind, with Publix above, or given the "urbanness" of the site, they'd do the store at ground level with parking either above or shared with the office/resi component. 

[dubone]

According to my Google Earth overlay of the Publix sitemap, I am coming up with a rough size of the SouthEnd store as 320'x220' including the loading dock, but not the other retail slots (70.4ksf).   According to Polaris, the Days Inn site is 396'x189' (74.8ksf).  This is really close in size and makes me think that Publix and Days Inn is a 1:1.   I know there probably examples of urban Publix stores with multiple stories, but this seems like a preferred approach for a major retailer, to be a single story at ground level with structured parking.  Just like the Teeter, the parking requirements will be vastly reduced by the pedestrian clientele.  

 

So I think the general siteplan would be Publix on the whole Days Inn parcel, with parking above or below and some setbacks or other retail to make a store similar to SouthEnd.   I think a FULL SIZE grocery store of the quality of Publix is what uptown needs, and what 4th and 1st Wards need to continue being the dense (for Charlotte) residential neighborhoods they are. 

 

It seems that a twin tower approach would further leverage the lower costs of the SkyHouse process, and they could fit another tower itself on the remainder land that had been reserved for office.  It also leaves room to spare to add a street ramp up or down into a deck under/over the Publix.   

 

http://ldiline.com/showpdf.cfm?proj=179156&file=007ARC_A0-00.pdf&dir=ARC

 

Obviously, the land tagged for office does not have enough space for another SkyHouse AND another standalone deck, but I suspect if Publix is playing ball, that based purely on the SouthEnd store, they could possibly have a way to integrate enough spaces in that section.   

[MazzoMedia]

was just jogging in the 4th ward and noticed the entire block around Edwin Tower (the ugly 12 story tan building) is fenced off for renovation.  I missed this one:

http://charlotte.news14.com/content/news/all_nc_news/699750/senior-citizen-public-housing-building-to-receive--10-million-renovation

Edited September 24, 2013 by MazzoMedia

[jednc]

was just jogging in the 4th ward and noticed the entire block around Edwin Tower (the ugly 12 story tan building) is fenced off for renovation.  I missed this one:

http://charlotte.news14.com/content/news/all_nc_news/699750/senior-citizen-public-housing-building-to-receive--10-million-renovation

What is the connection to Skyhouse?

[Niner National]

What is the connection to Skyhouse?

There isn't one. They're just renovating that building because it hasn't been upgraded since it was built in the 60's.

 

I posted about it in the Miscellaneous Uptown Projects thread.

[Missmylab4]

Any update on this? I'm looking forward to more than just Childress Klein and Embassy Suites under construction downtown.

[dubone]

It is disturbing me that this was to start construction any minute in the spring and then some discussion of expansion, but really seemingly no progress and no news.  I sure hope this doesn't become a victim of its own delays and stay a pile of rubble forever.