Richmond in Pictures III

[Hike]

1 hour ago, eandslee said:

A great photo courtesy of u/ThatChildNextDoor on Reddit (r/rva)...who, I think, also might be a member of this site under a different username (just a hunch)...or, at least, lurks here quite often:

I saw this one earlier, it’s a good photo of thetransfer lot, which still has the port-a-potty. 

[eandslee]

1 minute ago, Hike said:

I saw this one earlier, it’s a good photo of thetransfer lot, which still has the port-a-potty. 

...and it's a great shot of the location of the new VCU Dental School!

[I miss RVA]

1 hour ago, eandslee said:

...and it's a great shot of the location of the new VCU Dental School!

Which will hopefully have a considerable amount of size (read: height) to it. 

[I miss RVA]

15 hours ago, eandslee said:

A great photo courtesy of u/ThatChildNextDoor on Reddit (r/rva)...who, I think, also might be a member of this site under a different username (just a hunch)...or, at least, lurks here quite often:

BTW - if you are correct in the presumption that the photographer in question on the RVA subreddit is the same individual as one of our RVA/UP community members, and if it can be verified, then I would suggest that he is worthy of an OFFICIAL RVA/UP SILVER PORT-A POTTY trophy.

Any way we can get some verification? I'd love to hand out another award this week!

[eandslee]

An awesome photo I found on the Chesterfield Economic Development Facebook page of the Lego Factory groundbreaking yesterday. Beautiful photo with the Varina-Enon Bridge…and if you look close, you can see downtown Richmond in the background!

 

[I miss RVA]

1 hour ago, eandslee said:

An awesome photo I found on the Chesterfield Economic Development Facebook page of the Lego Factory groundbreaking yesterday. Beautiful photo with the Varina-Enon Bridge…and if you look close, you can see downtown Richmond in the background!

 

Awesome find!! So cool to see the skyline off in the distance. Man... imagine though how the skyline would look if the buildings were double their current height... 

[Shakman]

On 4/14/2023 at 1:17 PM, I miss RVA said:

Awesome find!! So cool to see the skyline off in the distance. Man... imagine though how the skyline would look if the buildings were double their current height... 

If that were the case, Richmond would have a 900 ft tower and three 800 footers!

[I miss RVA]

10 minutes ago, Shakman said:

If that were the case, Richmond would have a 900 ft tower and three 800 footers!

Yes - EXACTLY!! That's precisely my point. Given how building heights had progressed steadily upward throughout the '70s - I've always been surprised that said progress stalled out at 449 feet with the Monroe Tower in 1981. The (currently named) Truist building as among those that maintained that relative "level" of height - and given the progress that had been made from the '70s into the early '80s, I was absolutely CERTAIN back then (in the '80s) that by now - 40 years later - we WOULD have 800, 900, even 1,000 foot-tall buildings in downtown Richmond. Never in my wildest dreams (nightmares!!) did I imagine that we'd hit some kind of "glass ceiling" at 449 feet - and not build anything taller for what is now more than four decades and counting.

Edited April 17, 2023 by I miss RVA

[Downtowner]

On 4/17/2023 at 11:37 AM, I miss RVA said:

Yes - EXACTLY!! That's precisely my point. Given how building heights had progressed steadily upward throughout the '70s - I've always been surprised that said progress stalled out at 449 feet with the Monroe Tower in 1981. The (currently named) Truist building as among those that maintained that relative "level" of height - and given the progress that had been made from the '70s into the early '80s, I was absolutely CERTAIN back then (in the '80s) that by now - 40 years later - we WOULD have 800, 900, even 1,000 foot-tall buildings in downtown Richmond. Never in my wildest dreams (nightmares!!) did I imagine that we'd hit some kind of "glass ceiling" at 449 feet - and not build anything taller for what is now more than four decades and counting.

Any other cities that ended up stalling out below 450 feet like us? Just curious if there is any cities out there that had the same happen. Also of all metros with a million of more people wonder what city has had the longest drought of a new tallest building currently? We have to  be in the top 5 I would think.

[wrldcoupe4]

Lots of smaller cities have had periods of tower drought. 

[I miss RVA]

2 hours ago, wrldcoupe4 said:

Lots of smaller cities have had periods of tower drought. 

Richmond's total drought was the period of 1990-2005 - meaning absolutely NO towers of any kind outside of one state office building (on Main Street - 11 stories) and a couple of medical buildings on the VCU Health campus rose in downtown Richmond for 15 full years. Absolutely no private high-rise construction took place at all downtown from after the completion of Riverfront Plaza (1990) until the construction in 2005 of whichever of the two condo buildings (Riverside on the James or Vistas on the James) opened first. FIFTEEN YEARS!!!

But what we're currently suffering is a 42-year "height" drought - meaning, nothing taller than 449 feet has been constructed in Richmond since 1981. Given the VERY steady progression of increasing heights throughout the '70s with several downtown buildings superseding the height of the previous "tallest in RVA" - it stood to reason 40 years ago that by now -- some four decades later -- that we'd have SOMETHING taller than 449 feet  Yet we don't. It just... stopped.

The Truist (formerly SunTrust, formerly Crestar) building got close, but didn't top the Monroe building. Only now - in the past five or so years - we have two buildings -- Dominion Tower and now CoStar -- that are (or will be in CoStar's case) taller than the Truist building... but STILL will not reach or surpass 449 feet. It's that 42-year height drought that I can't wrap my head around - because back in the '80s it was almost a "given" that by now - in the 2020s (if anyone even thought that far out) that downtown RVA would have a few buildings AT LEAST 500 feet tall... 600 feet... even 700 or 800 feet. 

Yet ... we don't.

It ... just... stopped.

Edited April 19, 2023 by I miss RVA

[eandslee]

1 hour ago, I miss RVA said:

Richmond's total drought was the period of 1990-2005 - meaning absolutely NO towers of any kind outside of one state office building (on Main Street - 11 stories) and a couple of medical buildings on the VCU Health campus rose in downtown Richmond for 15 full years. Absolutely no private high-rise construction took place at all downtown from after the completion of Riverfront Plaza (1990) until the construction in 2005 of whichever of the two condo buildings (Riverside on the James or Vistas on the James). FIFTEEN YEARS!!!

But what we're currently suffering is a 42-year "height" drought - meaning, nothing taller than 449 feet has been constructed in Richmond since 1981. Given the VERY steady progression of increasing heights throughout the '70s with several downtown buildings superseding the height of the previous "tallest in RVA" - it stood to reason 40 years ago that by now -- some four decades later -- that we'd have SOMETHING taller than 449 feet  Yet we don't. It just... stopped.

The Truist (formerly SunTrust, formerly Crestar) building got close, but didn't top the Monroe building. Only now - in the past five or so years - we have two buildings -- Dominion Tower and now CoStar -- that are (or will be in CoStar's case) taller than the Truist building... but STILL will not reach or surpass 449 feet. It's that 42-year height drought that I can't wrap my head around - because back in the '80s it was almost a "given" that by now - in the 2020s (if anyone even thought that far out) that downtown RVA would have a few buildings AT LEAST 500 feet tall... 600 feet... even 700 or 800 feet. 

Yet ... we don't.

It ... just... stopped.

I would suspect that if Richmond had not lost all of its banks to Charlotte, then Richmond would have, for sure, had towers built taller than the Monroe tower. Really, back then it was just a matter of (short) time, given the banking presence in the city. When all the banks were bought out, that killed Richmond’s chances to see a taller tower being built…they all went to Charlotte and…you guessed it - built tall towers (well, the banks that bought out our banks did)!  I had some hope that Atlantic Union Bank would build a new tower for themselves, but 1) they just stopped growing several years ago after an impressive growth run, and 2) they never materialized a large presence downtown. If they were to combine their suburban offices all into a downtown location, I can see them possibly needing some significant space.  But again, that hasn’t materialized yet either. So my hope for AUB is all but lost, sadly. 

I had hope that DE would build tall, they built tall, but not tall enough. Thought for sure they would build a significant signature tower downtown, but instead of one tower, they opted for 2 towers…and then didn’t build the second one. Geez….sigh…

So Richmond has had chances to build taller than Monroe, but those who could were just too shy (or too poor) to pull the trigger. 
 

Then there was CoStar…oh CoStar…tried to claim they would have the tallest tower in Richmond by going by height in reference to sea level (really, who does that?)!  I’m actually surprised they’re building as tall as they are given the amount of land they bought…so we’re lucky that they are building the city’s second tallest. 

Edited April 19, 2023 by eandslee

[I miss RVA]

1 hour ago, eandslee said:

I would suspect that if Richmond had not lost all of its banks to Charlotte, then Richmond would have, for sure, had towers built taller than the Monroe tower. Really, back then it was just a matter of (short) time, given the banking presence in the city. When all the banks were bought out, that killed Richmond’s chances to see a taller tower being built…they all went to Charlotte and…you guessed it - built tall towers (well, the banks that bought out our banks did)!  I had some hope that Atlantic Union Bank would build a new tower for themselves, but 1) they just stopped growing several years ago after an impressive growth run, and 2) they never materialized a large presence downtown. If they were to combine their suburban offices all into a downtown location, I can see them possibly needing some significant space.  But again, that hasn’t materialized yet either. So my hope for AUB is all but lost, sadly. 

I had hope that DE would build tall, they built tall, but not tall enough. Thought for sure they would build a significant signature tower downtown, but instead of one tower, they opted for 2 towers…and then didn’t build the second one. Geez….sigh…

So Richmond has had chances to build taller than Monroe, but those who could were just too shy (or too poor) to pull the trigger. 
 

Then there was CoStar…oh CoStar…tried to claim they would have the tallest tower in Richmond by going by height in reference to sea level (really, who does that?)!  I’m actually surprised they’re building as tall as they are given the amount of land they bought…so we’re lucky that they are building the city’s second tallest. 

The timing of the decimation of Richmond's previously robust banking industry (meaning the headquarters) by our chief rival coincides not only with that competitor city's rise to prominence, but also with the complete and total drought in downtown RVA of any high-rise construction - the entire decade of the '90s and the first half of the "oughts" -  a full 15 years. Mind you, that period was also perhaps the darkest in modern Richmond history - her population cratered - reaching a census low of 197K in 2000 - and, if I recall correctly, estimated population totals reached a nadir of about 194K in the early 2000s, during which time every single one of Richmond's primary competitors with the exception of Norfolk saw explosive population growth as those cities absolutely boomed.

Obviously, a LOT has changed in the River City over the past 20 years - THANK GOD. 

Something else that no doubt impacted the downtown high-rise scene was the proliferation of suburban office construction. Big companies like Capital One -- rather than locating & building downtown -- stayed out in suburban office parks (several of which are now getting "makeovers" as mixed-use urban centers - almost akin to small satellite "cities" - my how things change!)

What I'm finding remarkable about the recent resurgence in downtown high-rise construction is that we're seeing a development that is interestingly similar to the height progression of the 1970s, in that once CoStar's campus is built out, two of the last three purely office buildings will have leapfrogged into the slot of the city's second tallest. Dominion surpassed the Truist building - and CoStar will surpass Dominion.

Still - it is wholly disappointing to me and terribly disheartening that 42 years could pass without a single structure anywhere in Richmond surpassing the Monroe building's height of 449 feet.

@wrldcoupe4- you make a good point about smaller cities having tower droughts - but I think part of the issue for those of us here who lament this situation is that we've never really thought of Richmond as "small". Okay - she's not huge. She's not New York or Chicago. But "mid-size" - has always been the mindset for many of us - certainly at least for me. And my God - 42 years without a building surpassing 449 feet is just patently absurd to me. I never - EVER - would have thought it possible 40 years ago - and I look back at the previous 40 years essentially aghast by what has transpired.

We absolutely need Greater Richmond Partnership to reel in some VERY big fish for this city - I fear that will be the ONLY thing that turns the tide - getting "another CoStar" or two (preferably even bigger fish than was/is CoStar). Otherwise - I don't see much hope of us ever cracking the 500-foot barrier in my lifetime.

Edited April 19, 2023 by I miss RVA

[Brent114]

I personally couldn’t care less about the tallest building thing.  Denver’s tallest was built in 1983.  Seattle’s was built in 1985.   
 

Both of those cities have boomed  beyond recognition since then. 
 

The  tallest building in New Orleans was built in 1972.  The tallest building in Minneapolis was built in 1973.  The tallest building in Detroit was built in 1977.  The tallest building in Boston was built in 1976. The tallest building in Baltimore was built in 1973.  The tallest building in Chicago was built in 1973.  The tallest building in Columbus was built in 1973. And on and on 
 

Richmond is in great company with regards to this metric.  

Edited April 19, 2023 by Brent114

[wrldcoupe4]

Thanks Brent - this was part of my point, just didn’t have time to research. I’ve heard that the S&L crises of the 80s, particular the last phase in the late 80s had a big impact on commercial construction, so you see a similar gap in many cities. 
 

also, when complaining about population, you simply can’t ignore the structural limitations we (and Norfolk since it was referenced) face:

no ability to annex

independent city

dillon rule state so we couldn’t change it on our own even if we wanted to. you cannot ignore these having an impact. 

[upzoningisgood]

The other thing is the Reagan administration clamped way down on how you could deduct expenses. 
 

https://www.nytimes.com/1985/06/16/realestate/reagan-tax-plan-waiting-for-the-other-shoe-to-drop.html

[I miss RVA]

1 hour ago, wrldcoupe4 said:

Thanks Brent - this was part of my point, just didn’t have time to research. I’ve heard that the S&L crises of the 80s, particular the last phase in the late 80s had a big impact on commercial construction, so you see a similar gap in many cities. 
 

also, when complaining about population, you simply can’t ignore the structural limitations we (and Norfolk since it was referenced) face:

no ability to annex

independent city

dillon rule state so we couldn’t change it on our own even if we wanted to. you cannot ignore these having an impact. 

Agreed, Coupe. Any of the three by themselves has a deleterious effect on city growth, significantly limiting the options that, say, Richmond and Norfolk have to grow significantly larger. Combined, they are a trifecta of strangulation that has held severely held Richmond back and has been a significant contributing factor to her falling so far behind competitor cities, which is very unfortunate (I have other thoughts about it, but again, I'm being charitable here).

Of the three, only the Dillon Rule would have a realistic chance of ever being be changed, and there doesn't seem to be any appetite among most lawmakers to buck the historical flow. The annexation moratorium land-locking Virginia cities likely will never change, because while it was technically imposed by the General Assembly, it was done so at the behest of the Federal Government & upheld by SCOTUS rulings. The independent city paradigm, VERY unfortunately, will never change. It was instituted by the General Assembly in 1871 and while a return to the "city as seat of "X" county" model would be a huge benefit to the cities involved, the urbanized/suburban counties have plenty of justifiable reasons to fight against it. So that's a non-starter.

Apparently the Dillon Rule was challenged in the General Assembly in the '70s, but the challenge went nowhere. Now - there appears to be some -- if only modest -- ground-level momentum to at least revisit the issue and consider switching to home rule.

Good article on the subject can be found here:

https://www.law.virginia.edu/news/202003/it-time-home-rule-virginia

Also, some outstanding scholarly work discussing this can be found here:

https://www.nlc.org/resource/new-principles-of-home-rule

[Brent114]

Of course I want all the new tall and shiny buildings….but the cities that I listed above have all basically doubled the size of their downtowns since their tallest building was built.   Richmond is so much bigger than it was when the Monroe building was built.  
 

Seattle, Boston  and Denver in particular certainly haven’t suffered any status loss  because they haven’t built anything taller in the last 30-40 years.  Seattle, Minneapolis, Boston and Denver should be the places that make us jealous. 
 

 

[I miss RVA]

12 minutes ago, Brent114 said:

 Seattle, Minneapolis, Boston and Denver should be the places that make us jealous. 

 !!!! Fully agreed, @Brent114

Seattle, Minneapolis, Boston, Denver -- not to mention Philadelphia -- ARE cities that make me jealous! What Seattle, in particular, has done in terms of downtown development over the last several decades is off the charts amazing. I so wish we could do the same. Amazing density & vitality there.

Edited April 19, 2023 by I miss RVA

[Brent114]

Seattle blows my mind.  I haven’t been since 1997 and even then it was nearly perfect, IMO. I’ve such a crush on that city.  It’s truly in a class of it’s own with regards to building  a proper urban city in this century. 
 

What’s not to love ? 

Edited April 19, 2023 by Brent114

[I miss RVA]

9 minutes ago, Brent114 said:

Seattle blows my mind.  I haven’t been since 1997 and even then it was nearly perfect, IMO. I’ve such a crush on that city.  It’s truly in a class of it’s own with regards to building  a proper urban city in this century. 
 

What’s not to love ? 

!!!!!

Hasn't Seattle topped multiple lists of "America's most livable cities" and "Best cities in America" multiple times over the last couple of decades?

BTW, I cropped the picture to focus on the city. My God... if only central Richmond looked like this.

Either way...

THIS, friends, is what I'm talking about. THIS is EXACTLY what I have wanted Richmond to do for the past 50 years. THIS is what I've dreamed my whole life Richmond would do... what she would become. 

Edited April 19, 2023 by I miss RVA

[wrldcoupe4]

Pacific northwest cities seem to really embrace the density... look at Vancouver.

[mintscraft56]

On 4/19/2023 at 7:33 AM, wrldcoupe4 said:

Thanks Brent - this was part of my point, just didn’t have time to research. I’ve heard that the S&L crises of the 80s, particular the last phase in the late 80s had a big impact on commercial construction, so you see a similar gap in many cities. 
 

also, when complaining about population, you simply can’t ignore the structural limitations we (and Norfolk since it was referenced) face:

no ability to annex

independent city

dillon rule state so we couldn’t change it on our own even if we wanted to. you cannot ignore these having an impact. 

Yep, unfortunately. Norfolk and Richmond should (in my opinion) be allowed to annex the surrounding pieces of cities, countys, ect. The limiting factors of our growth hold us down like an 3000 lbs anchor to  pool float. Plus, down here in hampton roads, our problem is amplified with county-sized cities surrounding us. 

[I miss RVA]

1 hour ago, mintscraft56 said:

Yep, unfortunately. Norfolk and Richmond should (in my opinion) be allowed to annex the surrounding pieces of cities, countys, ect. The limiting factors of our growth hold us down like an 3000 lbs anchor to  pool float. Plus, down here in hampton roads, our problem is amplified with county-sized cities surrounding us. 

It would be nice - but I don't foresee the annexation moratorium being lifted in any of our lifetimes. While imposed by the state, it was done so at the behest of the federal government and backed by the SCOTUS - so it ain't going anywhere anytime soon, unfortunately.

Edited April 20, 2023 by I miss RVA

[eandslee]

I was in town yesterday and today for the Ragnar Trail Relay Race at Pocahontas State Park. I do it every year, but on the way back home, I stopped in the downtown area to take some photos. Here are some of the pics I took today:

Just for fun, can you name the projects I got pictures of?

 

Edited April 29, 2023 by eandslee