Traffic Congestion and Highway Construction

[monsoon]

According to the paper, the inner beltway will have those solar lights retrofitted on the poles them instead of getting the wiring fixed. It will be an interesting experiment since these lights are 1/3 as bright as what was originally up there. As I said earlier in this thread, I don't think these lights are really bright enough to overcome the nighttime light pollution that we have here now.

As it turns out, the state decided against the solar lights because they are not bright enough to be of much use. Our mayor, who is about as diplomatic as a bull in a china shop has demanded the state fix they lights they improperly installed in the first place. (according to McCroy) The NCDOT in response has told Charlotte to use money the city was already given for road projects to fix the lights themselves if Charlotte wants them fixed.

So it looks as if there won't be any new lights unless the Charlotte city council ponies up the money to fix them. Great job by the mayor.

[PlazaMidwoodGuy]

So it looks as if there won't be any new lights unless the Charlotte city council ponies up the money to fix them. Great job by the mayor.

How is this Mayor McCrory's fault? It is the responsibility of the state to maintain these lights, not the City of Charlotte. And now NCDOT tells Charlotte it needs to use part of its share of state road-building money to cover the cost of light repair and replacement. I'm certainly NOT a Pat McCrory fan, but while he may be tactless I think he has every right to be angry and frustrated about this situation and to say so - especially after we've been dealing with burned out lights on our local freeways for many years. If anything, I don't think the city and its leaders have been vocal ENOUGH about the lighting situation.

Charlotte has a long history of being short-changed when it comes to getting money from the NC Legislature for anything, especially highway funds. It doesn't matter whether our local officials kiss up to the folks in Raleigh or are blunt with them. Either way we're labeled the "Great State of Mecklenburg" and we always struggle to get our share of state funds.

[ChiefJoJo]

I think once the magnitude of the problem & associated costs were revealed, I think NCDOT's position was that $7M needed to be requested and programmed by the city in the TIP as a stand-alone project. I believe the solar option could have been implemented much more cheaply and not necessarily requiring a special project, and multi-million dollars in investment. IIRC, the city has never seen this as worthy of a special inclusion as a project in the TIP, but rather as an incidental cost the state should cover out of it's general maintenance budget. I'll have to check on where things stand next week.

[monsoon]

How is this Mayor McCrory's fault? It is the responsibility of the state to maintain these lights, not the City of Charlotte. ....

No doubt about the lack of money coming from the NC Legislature. It's much worse because McCroy chooses to fight with them at every opportunity rather than make the political connections to make them more receptive to Charlotte's needs. Instead of sitting on his throne here in downtown Charlotte, he needs to be in Raleigh eating some humble pie if it manages to get the city more money from the Legislature. But I assume his pants are just too big for that.

A mayor on good terms with the state legislature would have managed to get them to do a special appropriation to fix the lights years ago. Instead he calls them names and Charlotte's streets remain dark. Kind of like slitting your own wrists to prove you were right about how sharp the knife is.

[ChiefJoJo]

The Governor will name a 24-member study commission on transportation issues, likely today. Hopefully, it will produce more than just a report that collects dust on a shelf, and they will actually produce real results. I do think this issue has risen to a higher level than it has in a long time, but I'm also a realist. With an outgoing governor and elections next fall, I doubt there will be many legislators who will want to tackle a tax increase in 2008. Unless I'm off (I hope so), I see the most likely scenario being a tax increase for transportation in some form or fashion in 2009. We can also hope that one of the candidates for NC Governor addresses the transportation funding issue in the campaign.

[monsoon]

I don't think there needs to be a tax increase to do the necessary building in the urban parts of this state. The problems, as noted above are political which causes much of the resources in this state to be mis-spent on road building that we really don't need, and neglect those that do need work.

[Andyc545]

I don't think there needs to be a tax increase to do the necessary building in the urban parts of this state. The problems, as noted above are political which causes much of the resources in this state to be mis-spent on road building that we really don't need, and neglect those that do need work.

It did mention that in the one article, that some of the focus will be shifted, currently from the eastern less dense and populus areas to the growing urban cores filled with high populations- Charlotte & Greensboro refered to in the article. I think this is good news. I was rather pleased to see the issue, that is so oftenly discussed here on UP, be addressed and placed high on the list. By the sounds of the article, it states that they are wasting no time, and jumping on the beginning discussions today. Good to hear things aren't being longated over years and years, just for researching the issue.

Edited October 29, 2007 by Andyc545

[monsoon]

.... By the sounds of the article, it states that they are wasting no time, and jumping on the beginning discussions today. Good to hear things aren't being longated over years and years, just for researching the issue.

Do you look at these things through rose colored glasses? The article says this.

Commission members say they want to think just as big -- even if chances for major changes in 2008, an election year, are slim.

Unless the NC Legislature votes otherwise, Charlotte is not getting any additional money, especially it it is to be pulled from rural areas.

[Justadude]

Agreed that this sounds like progress. I am all for improving the economic prospects of our rural areas, but when the state's busiest freeways don't even have light bulbs that is a problem. I also agree with metro that there is no clear need for tax increases considering the amount of money that is currently being appropriated for low-urgency projects.

[Andyc545]

Do you look at these things through rose colored glasses? The article says this.

Commission members say they want to think just as big -- even if chances for major changes in 2008, an election year, are slim.

Unless the NC Legislature votes otherwise, Charlotte is not getting any additional money, especially it it is to be pulled from rural areas.

The article, which is the headlining topic, also states that there is finally a shift in where money will be (at the time researched) but in the future spent for improving all aspects of transit and where it's needed in NC. This is the first big progressive movement by NC to even acknowledge Charlotte at this point for its elevating needs. I don't see how this is negative, which is what you have spinned it to be. The fact that this is even being addressed is a positive in my book.

[monsoon]

One more time, there have been no decisions to change anything and article does not say there was. Sure the governor can appoint a commission on behalf of the NCDOT but that doesn't mean anything is going to be done about it. Unless the NC Legislature votes to change the way money is apportioned, or there is a tax increase, it just isn't going to happen.

This isn't a spin as you call it because you can't spin something that hasn't happened.

[Andyc545]

I stand correct. My references were referring to this article on the Charlotte Observer and not the one linked to by ChiefJoJo. Sorry for the confusion.

[ChiefJoJo]

I don't think there needs to be a tax increase to do the necessary building in the urban parts of this state. The problems, as noted above are political which causes much of the resources in this state to be mis-spent on road building that we really don't need, and neglect those that do need work.

I suppose it depends on the level of transportation needs that the state leaders and the public want to fix. Lots of leaders are saying just end the $170M annual transfer to the general fund, cut some of the pork, and there you have it. I can tell you that will not come close to cutting it.

The state will attempt to accomodate about 4 million more people by 2030 (roughly the pop of SC), and the transportation needs for that timeframe total around $65B in todays dollars, and exising revenue streams will not cover that. In fact, even with a large slate of toll roads (which don't cover the total cost, usually about 2/3), the existing state gas tax would have to be doubled in order to cover the financial gap (not going to happen, but you get the drift). There are no revenue streams for expanding rail service to Asheville or Wilmington or to implement high speed rail from Charlotte to Raleigh. There are no funds to rebuild the Bonner Bridge ($1B) on the outer banks. What about matching rail transit funds? ... and the list goes on and on. Even if we shaved off some of the needs in the eastern part of the state, or simply give the SR roads to the counties & cities to control and let the thems build their own roads, there are still too many needs to avoid a tax increase of some sort.

FYI, here are the members of your NC 21st Century Transportation Committee.

[monsoon]

Spending $1B to build a bridge to support development on barrier islands that shouldn't even be there in the first place is a prime example of the misplaced spending in this state.

[ChiefJoJo]

There's always been a lot of talk about how NCDOT spends it's money around the state. Here is a map and table showing how gas tax money has been distributed on a 14-year historical basis. The map very clearly shows the subsidy from urban counties to more rural ones in the east and west.

Over the period from 1991 to 2005, NCDOT spent about $2B ($141M annually) in gas tax revenue, while taking in $2.8B from Meck Co. during that span. Incidentally, Meck is first in NC in money spent over that span, followed by Wake at $1.85B, and Guilford at $1.6B. Those are the only counties in NC with spending over $1B, and most are nowhere close... Durham being closest at $765M. Clearly, this is the result of large-scale widenings of interstates 85, 40, and construction of the outer loops in those three counties.

[monsoon]

It appears that Gaston county will be manufacturing its own biodiesel from the used cooking oil instead of burning the oil directly. The system expects good savings as it pays to dispose of the used oil now. An interesting tidbit. BioDiesel is the only fuel out there right now that fully meets the requirements of the Clean Air Act. It is environmental friendly, renewable, and good business for North Carolina.

CMS is closely watching the experiment in Gaston and may implement the same program here. That would be quite astonishing if they actually did something that made sense for a change.

So two years after I posted this it seems the experiment in Gaston county is having great success as the district is producing 500 gallons of bio-diesel/day and now Gaston county has voted to spend money to double the capacity of their production facility. This fuel is used in their standard issue school buses. Note this is hundreds of thousands of fuel not being imported from the middle east each year or adding to the net carbon in the air.

Where is CMS on this after two years of Gaston started the experiment? No where. It's a shameful showing for the state's largest school district as there is a significant opportunity to help with Charlotte's contribution to air pollution issues here.

[Raintree21]

The CBJ is reporting that Jim Humphrey announced his retirement (December 21st). He is the Director of the Charlotte Department of Transportation. CDOT is in charge of policy development, neighborhood traffic, street lights, sidewalks, street maintenance and signal operations. Could this bring a change to the way Charlotte grows?

[ChiefJoJo]

Here's the lighting situation:

• solar won't work--too costly (almost as much as total rebuild and would involve dbl or triple the poles)
  
• solar lighting performance might still be lower than std system + increased maint. headache with more poles
  
• DOT total maint. budget is $35M per year for all division (5 counties)--$20M for SRs, $15M for highways
  
• DOT has prev. tried to do small fixes at $250k ea, but won't work with old system (~40 yrs old, end of useful life)
  
• total rebuild probably costs $7M, maybe just for Brookshire Frwy (unclear at this point)
  
• rebuild of lighting system is outside scope and budget of avail. state maint funds (only minor repaving, potholes, guardrails, etc)
  
• $7M rebuild requires MPO/city to agree to prioritize federal interstate funds for new capital project
  
• if prioritized, could be underway by Mar/Apr 08.
  

[Spartan]

The CBJ is reporting that Jim Humphrey announced his retirement (December 21st). He is the Director of the Charlotte Department of Transportation. CDOT is in charge of policy development, neighborhood traffic, street lights, sidewalks, street maintenance and signal operations. Could this bring a change to the way Charlotte grows?

Its possible, but I think the change will be for the better. The City likes to hire from within. The Deputy Director is a likely candidate, and would be an equally viable person for that position.

[nyxmike]

According to WBTV, I-485's completion date has been pushed back to 2017, widening the southern part has also been delayed (no date given), and all the lights on I-277 are going to fail and the state doesn't know if they have the money to fix it. If all of their reporting is true, this is absolutely ridiculous.

[monsoon]

They really ought to consider making that part of I-485 a toll road and turn it over to the NC Turnpike authority. The money saved could be used for other projects in CLT. The southern part is a lost cause and CLT should be held responsible for widening that part of the road since they did not follow their urban development guildlines they established for that area that the NCDOT used to design that section of road. This part should not be a state responsibility.

[Charlotte_native]

They really ought to consider making that part of I-485 a toll road and turn it over to the NC Turnpike authority. The money saved could be used for other projects in CLT. The southern part is a lost cause and CLT should be held responsible for widening that part of the road since they did not follow their urban development guildlines they established for that area that the NCDOT used to design that section of road. This part should not be a state responsibility.

I'm all for toll roads. Since the anti-transit tax and anti-rail people keep saying that mass transit should be self-supporting, I guess roads should be too.

[Andyc545]

They really ought to consider making that part of I-485 a toll road and turn it over to the NC Turnpike authority. The money saved could be used for other projects in CLT. The southern part is a lost cause and CLT should be held responsible for widening that part of the road since they did not follow their urban development guildlines they established for that area that the NCDOT used to design that section of road. This part should not be a state responsibility.

485 as a toll road makes a lot of sense to me, also. I was hoping that it would, that or I-77 to gain a lot of "through-traffic fees." Also if say a toll is set on I-77, it would encourage use of the LRT if the toll is built after the I-485/I-77 interpass (to allow traffic from SC and SE Clt to get to the LRT southend park-and-ride for no fees. The only problem would be traffic (stop and go getting into the toll). Toll roads have proven (although a pain in the butt) extremely successful on some of the northern interstates. NC could also sell of EZ-Pass types of programs to increase sales and make it easier and cheaper for commuters. This is huge in NYState for commuters in my family.

[e2ksj3]

485 as a toll road makes a lot of sense to me, also. I was hoping that it would, that or I-77 to gain a lot of "through-traffic fees." Also if say a toll is set on I-77, it would encourage use of the LRT if the toll is built after the I-485/I-77 interpass (to allow traffic from SC and SE Clt to get to the LRT southend park-and-ride for no fees. The only problem would be traffic (stop and go getting into the toll). Toll roads have proven (although a pain in the butt) extremely successful on some of the northern interstates. NC could also sell of EZ-Pass types of programs to increase sales and make it easier and cheaper for commuters. This is huge in NYState for commuters in my family.

I think they should keep 485 toll-free, since it's almost complete, plus it's throwing more money at a problem that seriously needs to be addressed first, which is the state road funding formula. It's ridiculous that there was a 20 mile freeway bypass built between Wilson and Goldsboro that hardly gets any traffic (this is coming from a resident of Wilson County), while we continue to let the urban areas suffer. I think toll lanes, like the 91 Express lanes in SoCal would be good idea for expensive widening projects like I-77 south of Uptown. Plus HOV and bus rapid transit could implemented in conjunction with the HOT lanes.

[Spartan]

Tolls make sense, and I'm all for them but realistically 485 will probably be the only toll-free interstate belt in the state.