Richmond: Economy/Business/Real Estate

[I miss RVA]

1 hour ago, Virginian11 said:

Charlotte, Raleigh and Nashville also don’t have a metroplex of 7-10 million people (DC/Baltimore) with a myriad of pro teams/multiple huge airports within 2-3 hours.   Factors out of our control like this are the primary headwinds when it comes to massive airport growth/pro sports or lack thereof.      That doesn’t even include our market being fractured more by 1.8 mil in 757.
 Those cities are more spread out from

other population centers and are naturally hubs.  We’re in a pretty populated swath here in central VA.  Raleigh is somewhat immune from the above due to their unique situation of having UNC, Duke, and State right there.
 

And give us credit, we’re the 43/44 largest metro in the US!  You know better than to use city limits population numbers to assess city size!  

No -- you misunderstand. I want BOTH - city AND metro in the top 50. Let's get BOTH north of 50th and I'll be a very happy camper.  As of right now, Wichita, Kansas (talk about a former wide spot in the road!) is the 50th largest CITY. If we were currently at just the 340,000 level that the city planners were forecasting for 2037, we'd be 56th in the country. 

You make a lot of outstanding and good, factual, points about natural disadvantages that are out of RVA's (and by extension) RIC's) control -and I agree with your analysis. HOWEVER - that does NOT excuse us from trying even HARDER to overcome those disadvantages. There are a PLETHORA of cities (Anaheim, CA, Arlington, TX, Bakersfield, CA, Long Beach, CA, Irvine, CA, Aurora, CO, among many others) that are nothing more than SUBURBS - they aren't even their own metropolitan areas - they are attached to LARGER metroplexes - (LA-Long Beach, Dallas-Fort Worth, Denver, etc.) - and they're ALL LARGER than Richmond and thus are ranked higher on the list of cities.  I see no reason RVA can't grow at a faster rate - maybe 340,000 by 2037 is aggressive - but it MIGHT be reachable! 

My point is WHY SETTLE? WHY NOT AIM for the stars?   The city planners are certainly doing their part and I'm super impressed with the work they've done. Plus, we've got some amazing organizations that are all-in on going pedal-to-the metal like the Greater Richmond Partnership. Hat's off to all of these folks! 

As for proximity to the 7-plus million Baltimore-Washington area just a couple of hours away - rather than just accept that it's a natural impediment to our population growth or explosive airport growth, we could/would/should "flip the script" so to speak and use the proximity to D.C. to our advantage. There could be positive impact for the airport. and particularly as the state goes all-in on re-establishing statewide rail service, high speed rail, etc., RVA would be uniquely positioned to take full advantage of these kinds of developments, particularly with tie-ins to D.C. There's a lot we could do that could turn what appears to be a disadvantage into an actual advantage on a lot of fronts. 

WE HAVE TO BE CREATIVE - THINK PROGRESSIVELY - THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX!!! We CAN'T just SETTLE for the same-old, same-old. Okay - we're too close to D.C. How do we overcome that by taking advantage of it? Okay - Hampton Roads is on our eastern flank. How do we overcome that by taking advantage of it? We HAVE to jettison old-school ways, old-school mindsets and old-school methods that keep us shackled in place - and FIND new and creative ways to plow through all of this and surge ahead. I BELIEVE IT CAN BE DONE!

To your other point - we're doing pretty well metro-wise. Currently 44th - and we COULD leapfrog Memphis into 43rd in another year or two. We're growing at 0.73% and they're losing population incrementally (-0.13%) -- the next two - OKC and Raleigh are growing much faster than we are. HOWEVER - Milwaukee is slipping - and all three of us - RDU, OKC and RVA - could easily pass MKE by the end of the decade - which if we could do that, would put us VERY close to 1.5 million metro.

If we were at 2 million (using current rankings) we'd be 36th, directly behind Nashville.

Honestly, seven years is a LONG time in a lot of ways - and we could still get a good sprinkling of Urban Miracle Grow between now and the 2030 census. Here's hoping for some AMAZING numbers come 2030-31!! 

 

Edited January 26, 2023 by I miss RVA

[Virginian11]

45 minutes ago, I miss RVA said:

No -- you misunderstand. I want BOTH - city AND metro in the top 50. Let's get BOTH north of 50th and I'll be a very happy camper.  As of right now, Wichita, Kansas (talk about a former wide spot in the road!) is the 50th largest CITY. If we were currently at just the 340,000 level that the city planners were forecasting for 2037, we'd be 56th in the country. 

You make a lot of outstanding and good, factual, points about natural disadvantages that are out of RVA's (and by extension) RIC's) control -and I agree with your analysis. HOWEVER - that does NOT excuse us from trying even HARDER to overcome those disadvantages. There are a PLETHORA of cities (Anaheim, CA, Arlington, TX, Bakersfield, CA, Long Beach, CA, Irvine, CA, Aurora, CO, among many others) that are nothing more than SUBURBS - they aren't even their own metropolitan areas - they are attached to LARGER metroplexes - (LA-Long Beach, Dallas-Fort Worth, Denver, etc.) - and they're ALL LARGER than Richmond and thus are ranked higher on the list of cities.  I see no reason RVA can't grow at a faster rate - maybe 340,000 by 2037 is aggressive - but it MIGHT be reachable! 

My point is WHY SETTLE? WHY NOT AIM for the stars?   The city planners are certainly doing their part and I'm super impressed with the work they've done. Plus, we've got some amazing organizations that are all-in on going pedal-to-the metal like the Greater Richmond Partnership. Hat's off to all of these folks! 

As for proximity to the 7-plus million Baltimore-Washington area just a couple of hours away - rather than just accept that it's a natural impediment to our population growth or explosive airport growth, we could/would/should "flip the script" so to speak and use the proximity to D.C. to our advantage. There could be positive impact for the airport. and particularly as the state goes all-in on re-establishing statewide rail service, high speed rail, etc., RVA would be uniquely positioned to take full advantage of these kinds of developments, particularly with tie-ins to D.C. There's a lot we could do that could turn what appears to be a disadvantage into an actual advantage on a lot of fronts. 

WE HAVE TO BE CREATIVE - THINK PROGRESSIVELY - THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX!!! We CAN'T just SETTLE for the same-old, same-old. Okay - we're too close to D.C. How do we overcome that by taking advantage of it? Okay - Hampton Roads is on our eastern flank. How do we overcome that by taking advantage of it? We HAVE to jettison old-school ways, old-school mindsets and old-school methods that keep us shackled in place - and FIND new and creative ways to plow through all of this and surge ahead. I BELIEVE IT CAN BE DONE!

To your other point - we're doing pretty well metro-wise. Currently 44th - and we COULD leapfrog Memphis into 43rd in another year or two. We're growing at 0.73% and they're losing population incrementally (-0.13%) -- the next two - OKC and Raleigh are growing much faster than we are. HOWEVER - Milwaukee is slipping - and all three of us - RDU, OKC and RVA - could easily pass MKE by the end of the decade - which if we could do that, would put us VERY close to 1.5 million metro.

If we were at 2 million (using current rankings) we'd be 36th, directly behind Nashville.

Honestly, seven years is a LONG time in a lot of ways - and we could still get a good sprinkling of Urban Miracle Grow between now and the 2030 census. Here's hoping for some AMAZING numbers come 2030-31!! 

 

I agree - I don’t want settling either!  
Populations within city limits are tricky - Witchita’s city limits are 167 square miles - we’re at 63 square miles - I think we’d be sitting pretty on the rankings list if Richmond proper’s population was based on 166 square miles around city center.  But I hear what you’re saying, 347000 in 63 square miles would be pretty damn dense!  Both in top 50 would be great, but it’s all about the metro size!  And we’re absolutely about to pass Memphis, might’ve already happened haha!

Edited January 26, 2023 by Virginian11

[blopp1234]

Wonder if we can give the silver portapotty to whoever the resident in the region that puts us past Memphis! 

[I miss RVA]

1 hour ago, Virginian11 said:

I agree - I don’t want settling either!  
Populations within city limits are tricky - Witchita’s city limits are 167 square miles - we’re at 63 square miles - I think we’d be sitting pretty on the rankings list if Richmond proper’s population was based on 166 square miles around city center.  But I hear what you’re saying, 347000 in 63 square miles would be pretty damn dense!  Both in top 50 would be great, but it’s all about the metro size!  And we’re absolutely about to pass Memphis, might’ve already happened haha!

Oh for sure - land square mileage makes a huge difference - HOWEVER - there's NOTHIN' stopping Richmond from going VERTICAL except air and opportunity! If we strip the lid off this place, and go up, up, up, up - we might have a shot at hitting 340K - and for a 63 sq mile city - we'd be lookin' pretty good! I know a lot of these other cities can annex, whereas we can't. But frankly I don't want that kind of spread-out growth. I want good density. Good walkable parts of the city. Lots of reliance on public transit. A big, BEEFY downtown. A big, BEEFY Manchester. A big BEEFY Diamond District. A big BEEFY Scott's Addition. Honestly, I think there's PLENTY of developable land in the city to get out population up over 400,000 without compromising ANY of the existing legacy places like, say, the Fan, Church Hill, Forest Hill, Westover Hills, Ginter Park, places like that. It wouldn't be THAT hard. We just need to be determined and creative. 

One bit of encouraging news: I'm seeing a number of 2023 estimates putting Richmond CITY at 233,330 - and we're less than 3,000 residents behind Norfolk! 

Metro - have we over taken Memphis? Not yet. We're close, though -- but estimates still have Memphis jusssssssssssssssssssst SLIGHTLY ahead.

Here are the 2023 estimates:

Memphis 1,334,895

Richmond 1,321,556

One more bit of encouraging news however, is that a number of different data sources I'm seeing -- including Greater Richmond Partnership - has us on the doorstep of 1.5 million by 2030. 

Edited January 27, 2023 by I miss RVA

[Brent114]

Maybe I’ll read imiss’s posts later, maybe not. 
 

You don’t live here and frankly I do not care what you want for a city 800 miles from where you live.  It’s irrelevant.   Being upset that Richmond city council and Henrico Board of Supervisors are actually responsive to the wishes of their constituents, the people that live, work and pay taxes here, is nuts.  Just nuts. 

If the people of Henrico feel better about 800 houses as opposed to 1000, so what.  They have to live with their choices.  You don’t. 

[I miss RVA]

6 hours ago, Brent114 said:

Maybe I’ll read imiss’s posts later, maybe not. 
 

You don’t live here and frankly I do not care what you want for a city 800 miles from where you live.  It’s irrelevant.   Being upset that Richmond city council and Henrico Board of Supervisors are actually responsive to the wishes of their constituents, the people that live, work and pay taxes here, is nuts.  Just nuts. 

If the people of Henrico feel better about 800 houses as opposed to 1000, so what.  They have to live with their choices.  You don’t. 

So unless I move back there, in your mind, I am not entitled to ANY opinion, feelings, hopes, dreams, MUCH LESS to actually, GOD-FORBID speak out in any way about Richmond at all, right? I'm guessing this also applies to @eandslee, @upzoningisgoodand soon @Downtowneronce he leaves, right? (Or do they get a pass because they don't dare be as blunt or critical as I am?)

In other words, you're telling me that I should just "shut up and dribble".

(I humbly apologize to everyone for this extremely - patently - offensive choice of phrase - I hated it when it was uttered on TV - but, regretfully, I'm this is what I feel our friend @Brent114is telling me.)

 

Edited January 27, 2023 by I miss RVA

[Hike]

3 hours ago, Brent114 said:

Maybe I’ll read imiss’s posts later, maybe not. 
 

You don’t live here and frankly I do not care what you want for a city 800 miles from where you live.  It’s irrelevant.   Being upset that Richmond city council and Henrico Board of Supervisors are actually responsive to the wishes of their constituents, the people that live, work and pay taxes here, is nuts.  Just nuts. 

If the people of Henrico feel better about 800 houses as opposed to 1000, so what.  They have to live with their choices.  You don’t. 

People can have opinions or considerations from wherever they live, this isn’t just a forum for Richmond, VA residents only. We’re all here, basically anonymous, for better or worse, with differing view points and feel those views can come from anywhere and are what makes this forum interesting enough to hang around.  I think you make a valid point that citizens wanted fewer homes and pushed for change from their elected officials, something many must have felt strongly about, and that resulted in fewer homes. 
While being “anonymous” allows freedom, it also makes it easier to not care, we don’t really know each other.  As an analogy or similarity to my last job, sales for a subcontractor and from which I retired, I communicated by email to everyone, GC’s, end users, architects, home owners, business owners, pastors, doctors, CEO’s, on and on and I rarely met any of them.  The one thing I learned from this was that I had to be civil, there was push back, frustration from this or that, but I tried to remain civil.  I’m not perfect, you know that, just want this place to be good, ultimately, it’s supposed to be fun as we’re all riding on this UrbanPlanet together!
 

 

[Flood Zone]

20 hours ago, Virginian11 said:

Charlotte, Raleigh and Nashville also don’t have a metroplex of 7-10 million people (DC/Baltimore) with a myriad of pro teams/multiple huge airports within 2-3 hours.   Factors out of our control like this are the primary headwinds when it comes to massive airport growth/pro sports or lack thereof.      That doesn’t even include our market being fractured more by 1.8 mil in 757.

This is the stone cold truth. We're a medium-sized, Class-AAA market. That die was cast long ago and can't be reversed. Let's make of it what we can. And I think we're making out OK. I grew up here, and this place is so much better in so many ways than the decades ago when I did. 

One thing I suspect maybe we (well, maybe not us but our grandchildren, I guess) will see in the future -- when the DC/NoVa creep actually does reach us, and it will -- would be the pressure on the more rural counties between us and Fredericksburg to carve out higher-density corridors along I-95. This would complement or support the high-speed rail service. So our future, to some degree, will be intertwined with faster, more efficient access to/from our larger market to the north. (Which could eventually give us a leg-up in a sense on the HR area, which is not as conveniently located. )

[Hike]

5 minutes ago, Flood Zone said:

One thing I suspect maybe we (well, maybe not us but our grandchildren, I guess) will see in the future -- when the DC/NoVa creep actually does reach us, and it will.

Yeah, it is.  
It may not happen before I go, but not much longer when it does.

[I miss RVA]

22 minutes ago, Hike said:

People can have opinions or considerations from wherever they live, this isn’t just a forum for Richmond, VA residents only. We’re all here, basically anonymous, for better or worse, with differing view points and feel those views can come from anywhere and are what makes this forum interesting enough to hang around.  I think you make a valid point that citizens wanted fewer homes and pushed for change from their elected officials, something many must have felt strongly about, and that resulted in fewer homes. 
While being “anonymous” allows freedom, it also makes it easier to not care, we don’t really know each other.  As an analogy or similarity to my last job, sales for a subcontractor and from which I retired, I communicated by email to everyone, GC’s, end users, architects, home owners, business owners, pastors, doctors, CEO’s, on and on and I rarely met any of them.  The one thing I learned from this was that I had to be civil, there was push back, frustration from this or that, but I tried to remain civil.  I’m not perfect, you know that, just want this place to be good, ultimately, it’s supposed to be fun as we’re all riding on this UrbanPlanet together!
 

 

Love of and passion for Richmond is not limited by boundaries. Why should it matter whether we were born there and never left, born there, left and came back, weren't born there but migrated there and adopted it as our home or born there and were carried by the currents of life circumstances to someplace else but never lost the love for the place? The bottom line is the love for and passion about the city and the metro.

There were certain life circumstances that brought me to Chicago 22 years ago that -- had they not happened -- I don't think I would have ever left Richmond. It wasn't a "looking for greener pastures somewhere else" kind of thing. It was "voluntary" inasmuch as I did decide to go in order to rise to the occasion and meet the -- at the time extremely challenging -- circumstances that had come up - and I was 38-going on 39 at the time. It's not like I fled the city when I was 18 or 22, fresh out of college.

Who knows - I may still move back at some point, if I can handle the hot, humid weather that is, quite unfortunately, only being exacerbated by climate change. To be honest, that's the one thing that keeps me up here in Chicagoland more than anything -- the weather. We don't get Virginia summers here. And we have REAL winters - and I LOVE cold weather and snow.  There are a few inches on the ground and as I look out my window, I see it is snowing even as I type this. Climate change is affecting all of that - and particularly given some things with my health, I'm not sure I can physically handle trying to re-acclimate to the level of heat and humidity that's above even that which I left 22 years ago.

I will say this - the way the city and metro are growing has been stoking the fires to seriously consider moving back to be PART of it - which was something I wanted my whole life. I can't tell you how soul crushing it was growing up and as a young and early-middle-aged adult not having what's going on now to be a part of - to only sit and see it happening in OTHER cities like Charlotte. (ugh...)

Like I said - who knows. I'm not gonna rule it out.

Edited January 27, 2023 by I miss RVA

[Downtowner]

I have some letters like I do for my nfl team the Detroit lions (SOL means same ole lions) in this case regarding Richmond nimbys and city council (SOR) same old Richmond. The lions went on for decades with that phrase. That’s how I feel when it comes to council making boneheaded decisions on development and the nimbys killing all development. So for now regarding rva… SOR

[I miss RVA]

13 minutes ago, Downtowner said:

I have some letters like I do for my nfl team the Detroit lions (SOL means same ole lions) in this case regarding Richmond nimbys and city council (SOR) same old Richmond. The lions went on for decades with that phrase. That’s how I feel when it comes to council making boneheaded decisions on development and the nimbys killing all development. So for now regarding rva… SOR

 on this!!  And THAT's the part that I think some on here are missing in my soapboxing (even though apparently I don't have the right to say anything because I don't live there) - is that the crap I complain about is the same crap I complained about my whole life - it was happening when I was growing up in Richmond. It was happening when I was in undergrad in Richmond. It was happening when I was a young and early middle-aged-adult in Richmond. And my angst is caused by the fact that - despite all the incredible advances that have been made in the last 10 years - all the growth, all the development, all the new residents who are pouring into the city and the metro - that it is STILL happening.

Like you said - SAME OLD RICHMOND!! ARGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!! SO FRUSTRATING!! 

Oh - and if we're going to parse out whether one has license to speak based on living there or not living there - since our friend mentioned my kvetching about Route 5 and the new (unfortunately truncated) development there - then by the logic being thrown at me, if someone lives in the city or in Chesterfield or in Hanover, (maybe even ALSO in Henrico, just in Short Pump or in what will become Green City or in Mechanicsville... ) they can have NO OPINION on and they CANNOT SPEAK about what happens along Route 5. NONE. ZERO. Why? Because they don't live there.

Either way, @Downtowner- I agree with you 100% on this.

Edited January 27, 2023 by I miss RVA

[BigBobbyG]

4 hours ago, Brent114 said:

Maybe I’ll read imiss’s posts later, maybe not. 
 

You don’t live here and frankly I do not care what you want for a city 800 miles from where you live.  It’s irrelevant.   Being upset that Richmond city council and Henrico Board of Supervisors are actually responsive to the wishes of their constituents, the people that live, work and pay taxes here, is nuts.  Just nuts. 

If the people of Henrico feel better about 800 houses as opposed to 1000, so what.  They have to live with their choices.  You don’t. 

I don't think its nuts to acknowledge that some of those proposed changes are objectively wrong if we want to prevent displacement in the very communities that want to restrict growth, hell Maritza Pechin essentially says this in her response to some of the changes. Lets say Oregon Hill gets the restrictions they want in place and nothing but single family homes can ever be in there, if there is a limited supply of houses it just means that the people who are currently there are going to get replaced by the people who continue to move to Richmond and bring out of town money. Don't get me wrong I want them to move here! But ideally when they do they'll be moving to a city that has acknowledged the fact that they are coming and has taken steps to prepare like increased housing and transit.

In any case I was born and raised in Richmond and am now a homeowner within the city limits. I fully agree with what IMissRVA is saying so while I vehemently disagree with your concept that it matters where you live in order to be able to comment on how a city is developing I do hope that my credentials are good enough to second what they are saying.

I have to admit my own biases here. I like community input but when it gets into this "I got mine, screw anyone else who ever wants to live here"  mindset then I straight up stop caring what they have to say, especially in an urban setting. Why should a few people in glorified HOA's (the neighborhood associations) prey on peoples fear of change and get to keep this a "small city" when I and plenty of other young homeowners and renters want to live in a growing and thriving city that has improved transit, walkability, and density.

[Virginian11]

5 hours ago, Brent114 said:

Maybe I’ll read imiss’s posts later, maybe not. 
 

You don’t live here and frankly I do not care what you want for a city 800 miles from where you live.  It’s irrelevant.   Being upset that Richmond city council and Henrico Board of Supervisors are actually responsive to the wishes of their constituents, the people that live, work and pay taxes here, is nuts.  Just nuts. 

If the people of Henrico feel better about 800 houses as opposed to 1000, so what.  They have to live with their choices.  You don’t. 

Take a lap, Brent - this post sucks - this is a message board for crying out loud - his opinion matters as much as anyone’s. I enjoy his thoughtful posts.  Keep posting, Imiss!

[Brent114]

No one is claiming only single family homes can be built in Oregon Hill though.  In fact nearly all of the development there in the last 100 years has been townhomes, a very large dormitory and a large apartment building along Cary (with a friggin’ Sonic as a tenant).   There are also 4 other new (last 10-15 years) apartment buildings that I can recall along Cary and Belvedere. Is there even any developable land left in Oregon Hill?  You’ve just invented  a problem that doesn’t exist and are lambasting the locals for being NIMBys… because in your head they oppose something that isn’t even real. 
 

This is my beef.  On slow news days people on this board trip over themselves with a bunch of what-if scenarios and list off a bunch of dream  projects… things that haven’t been proposed or talked about outside of this forum.  Then when said things don’t come to fruition (to be clear, they were never going to happen) there’re  pages and pages of handwringing and beotching about city council and NIMBYs. 
 

One person says “let’s add 50k people over the next 10 years” the other says “let’s not build too tall on this particular lot” and then y'all fight about it.   The 300plan  is just a plan.  Just because those that created it want certain things to happen doesn’t mean that there is any market demand or developers waiting in the wings for  the city to get out of the way.  Since it was drafted a car wash and a Wawa have been built.  Neither was called for in the Richmond 300 plan. 

There aren’t  50k people looking for a place to live in Richmond that are being turned away because buildings that, no one is even proposing, are being scaled down.  Neither opinion  is having any bearing on local development.  You guys become so distracted by maps with color boxes indicating various development sites that you loose sight of the fact that none of it is real.  A yellow rectangle on a map doesn’t mean that there is any party interested in developing what it represents.  It’s 100% wishful thinking.  When it doesn’t become a reality, that isn’t a failure.  
 

One  doesn’t have to live here to have an opinion about Richmond  but one should actually place eyes on the city before  claiming it is falling behind other  cities (which haven’t been seen in person either). 

I do take offense that a person who hasn’t spent any of their adult life in Richmond thinks that their opinion is more valid that those that actually live here.   Local governments are accountable to local people. It is 100% nuts to be angry at a government body working with their constituents. 
An extra 200 homes in Varina over the next 30 years is inconsequential.  

And yes, everyone of this moment’s darling cities has locals pitted against developers (the controversy around the Dix Park expansion into an historically black neighborhood in Raleigh  is an example).  It’s wack-a-mole.   Even here in fudgeed up Richmond (not my opinion of course) while y’all are distracted by things like Navy Hill, Scott’s Addition and Manchester doubled in size. Imiss was one of the loudest voices claiming at the time that Richmond was a joke and no one would ever do business here in the future. Ironically were on the cusp the biggest boom in any of our lifetimes.  I knew that, stated it at the time. It’s almost like you can’t get a true read on momentum  without actually visiting. 

[Brent114]

In case it needs to be said, err written, out loud.  I love Imiss’s contributions to this forum.  I get his frustration.  I share a lot of them. 
 

We currently have the best and most pro business council any of us have ever lived through. The mayor is doing a great job too with regards to economic development. The market wants to be here.  It’s happening. Stop reading the tea  leaves just looking for bad omens.  They aren’t so hard to find when actually real. 

[I miss RVA]

34 minutes ago, Brent114 said:

I do take offense that a person who hasn’t spent any of their adult life in Richmond thinks that their opinion is more valid that those that actually live here.

Lessee... I left Richmond when I was turning 39.  (Unless the age of majority has been upped to 40 and no-one told me...)

I went to VCU for undergrad.

I worked downtown throughout my 20s.

I worked at Philip Morris throughout my 30s.

I first wife and I lived in the Museum District for several years (two different apartments - one on Kensington Avenue, one on Belmont Avenue), and in the Fan (an apartment on Park Avenue).

My first wife and I rented a house in Tuckahoe (Ridge Road just west of Forest Avenue), later rented a house in Laurel (little neighborhood just west of Woodman and Hungary roads) before buying a different house in Laurel (Hungary Road, east of Woodman)

I think that qualifies as half of my adult life right there! 

Edited January 27, 2023 by I miss RVA

[I miss RVA]

1 hour ago, Brent114 said:

In case it needs to be said, err written, out loud.  I love Imiss’s contributions to this forum.  I get his frustration.  I share a lot of them. 
 

We currently have the best and most pro business council any of us have ever lived through. The mayor is doing a great job too with regards to economic development. The market wants to be here.  It’s happening. Stop reading the tea  leaves just looking for bad omens.  They aren’t so hard to find when actually real. 

THAT, my friend, is the best thing you've said in two days. 

And I agree with you, 100% I'd add to your list of pluses the fact that - finally - we have an AMAZING - PROFESSIONAL - planning department that is willing to look past the trees to see the whole forest. They GET it - particularly Maritza Pechin - and they prove it with every aspect of city development they've worked on these last few years. It's unlike ANYTHING that was in place even 10 years ago - much less back in the day.

Edited January 27, 2023 by I miss RVA

[BigBobbyG]

1 hour ago, Brent114 said:

No one is claiming only single family homes can be built in Oregon Hill though.  In fact nearly all of the development there in the last 100 years has been townhomes, a very large dormitory and a large apartment building along Cary (with a friggin’ Sonic as a tenant).   There are also 4 other new (last 10-15 years) apartment buildings that I can recall along Cary and Belvedere. Is there even any developable land left in Oregon Hill?  You’ve just invented  a problem that doesn’t exist and are lambasting the locals for being NIMBys… because in your head they oppose something that isn’t even real. 

https://www.vpm.org/news/2020-11-18/oregon-hill-neighbors-say-richmonds-new-master-plan-could-be-devastating

Nah Oregon Hill is pretty stridently anti development, maybe less so since Charles Pool is out but still. And of course there is still developable land in there, there’s been talk about making (relatively short) mixed use buildings on idlewood for a while now and they’ve fought it tooth and nail. I have a bone to pick with that section specifically because I would’ve welcomed some stores or restaurants there when I live in that neighborhood. But you also heard it in the whining about parking for the amphitheater that’s supposed to go in past the war memorial. 

I know this is an old article but the zoning change is specifically what Oregon Hill asked to be changed in that recent document that the city put out. Idk, it just seems self defeating. By further restraining what can be added to the neighborhood all they are doing is keeping the neighborhood in stasis until they are replaced by people with more money who want to live in the heart of the city. 

[I miss RVA]

27 minutes ago, BigBobbyG said:

https://www.vpm.org/news/2020-11-18/oregon-hill-neighbors-say-richmonds-new-master-plan-could-be-devastating

Nah Oregon Hill is pretty stridently anti development, maybe less so since Charles Pool is out but still. And of course there is still developable land in there, there’s been talk about making (relatively short) mixed use buildings on idlewood for a while now and they’ve fought it tooth and nail. I have a bone to pick with that section specifically because I would’ve welcomed some stores or restaurants there when I live in that neighborhood. But you also heard it in the whining about parking for the amphitheater that’s supposed to go in past the war memorial. 

I know this is an old article but the zoning change is specifically what Oregon Hill asked to be changed in that recent document that the city put out. Idk, it just seems self defeating. By further restraining what can be added to the neighborhood all they are doing is keeping the neighborhood in stasis until they are replaced by people with more money who want to live in the heart of the city. 

 on this!

Oregon Hill has been like this every since I can remember - and I went to VCU for undergrad from fall of '81 through the end of '85 -- and I recall their anti-development reputation was active long before I was in undergrad - so at least since the '70s. You nailed it - the neighborhood will remain in stasis until those who are there are eventually replaced through the natural course of time by folks who want to live in the heart of the city and who have the money to plunk down on newer, bigger, better. Not talking high rises - but maybe apartment buildings that would certainly ruffle more than a few feathers if ever proposed nowadays.

Looking at Google maps - there's plenty of developable land in Oregon Hill - a lot of potential for some really nice infill that would boost the neighborhood quite a bit.

Edited January 28, 2023 by I miss RVA

[Downtowner]

1 hour ago, I miss RVA said:

 on this!

Oregon Hill has been like this every since I can remember - and I went to VCU for undergrad from fall of '81 through the end of '85 -- and I recall their anti-development reputation was active long before I was in undergrad - so at least since the '70s. You nailed it - the neighborhood will remain in stasis until those who are there are eventually replaced through the natural course of time by folks who want to live in the heart of the city and who have the money to plunk down on newer, bigger, better. Not talking high rises - but maybe apartment buildings that would certainly ruffle more than a few feathers if ever proposed nowadays.

Looking at Google maps - there's plenty of developable land in Oregon Hill - a lot of potential for some really nice infill that would boost the neighborhood quite a bit.

You know what I love about this forum? We can discuss things that we want to happen we all share the same visions. We want Richmond to grow and thrive. We may have different views on how to get there. That’s the beauty of America we all share one common goal for our communities and country. We all love it we just all have a different view on how to make it better and that’s the beauty of it. Between @I miss RVAand @Brent114you guys are having a great dialogue yes you guys both share different ways of getting to the goal of making our city a thriving growing successful place to live grow work and play but you both have that same vision but just a different view on how to get there. That’s a big thing about Richmond I used to not see at all very often. I will say compared to where we were in the 80s and 90s we have made a ton of progress since say 2001. I remember when riverside on the James was completed and even when it was proposed. When rocketts landing was proposed I was so excited. Then centennial towers I got really excited about that one but then the recession happend. But guys this is what we all want we all love our city rather we are from afar or currently living in rva. Yes I’m moving in the summer but man I will always love rva and will be back to visit family and friends. But as long as we are civil with the discussion that’s what matters. It may be frustrating and irritating but we have to remember we all share the same goal. We want rva to grow and prosper. 

[Hike]

11 minutes ago, Downtowner said:

You know what I love about this forum? We can discuss things that we want to happen we all share the same visions. We want Richmond to grow and thrive. We may have different views on how to get there. That’s the beauty of America we all share one common goal for our communities and country. We all love it we just all have a different view on how to make it better and that’s the beauty of it. Between @I miss RVAand @Brent114you guys are having a great dialogue yes you guys both share different ways of getting to the goal of making our city a thriving growing successful place to live grow work and play but you both have that same vision but just a different view on how to get there. That’s a big thing about Richmond I used to not see at all very often. I will say compared to where we were in the 80s and 90s we have made a ton of progress since say 2001. I remember when riverside on the James was completed and even when it was proposed. When rocketts landing was proposed I was so excited. Then centennial towers I got really excited about that one but then the recession happend. But guys this is what we all want we all love our city rather we are from afar or currently living in rva. Yes I’m moving in the summer but man I will always love rva and will be back to visit family and friends. But as long as we are civil with the discussion that’s what matters. It may be frustrating and irritating but we have to remember we all share the same goal. We want rva to grow and prosper. 

Yes, and group hug.

[I miss RVA]

1 minute ago, Hike said:

Yes, and group hug.

"Kumbaya, my Lord... Kumbayahhhhh!"  

[BigBobbyG]

2 minutes ago, I miss RVA said:

"Kumbaya, my Lord... Kumbayahhhhh!"  

I love it!

[whw53]

Amazing how much attention one of the smallest neighborhoods gets. I'm not sure what's more annoying - the always looming Oregon Hill existential crisis or the  Manchester reddit ppl whining about a grocery store. Both neighborhoods are better served and better 'protected' than  whole swaths of the metro area. I get the impression in this highly mobile day and age people literally move to certain neighborhoods to cut their teeth on some bleeding heart urbanist issue in a last ditch attempt to root themselves psychologically to a certain place. pathetic. 

and just catching up on this...yea, not keen on any sot of geographic discrimination. For better or for worse everything is nationalized now - if the elite class can hop around and weigh in on everything so can the whole lot of us. A  density fight in Varina is a density fight everywhere. This is a larger discussion about the responsibilities of local government in a highly unaffordable trajectory for for-sale housing in this country. I want more people jumping in on this - it was great to see Reason the other day chime in on the preposterous proposal by this city council to ban corner stores in certain zoning districts. Our issues need more national exposure and tie-in to larger economic themes -and lets fight for what we can get in a dwindling journalistic environment- even down to what seems like local land use cases.

Regarding these land use type issues specifically, let's stop deferring opinion to existing constituencies based on proximity - what gets built affects the entire people. I've never understood giving such a high degree of clout to those who surround a project site - are they not the most biased?

Sorry if we were over this.

Edited January 28, 2023 by whw53