Westin on Lower Broad

[Skyscrapergeek]

This is absolutely ridiculous. "If we start eroding it, we will kill an area that is a hot area and has been an economic engine," said Ann Roberts. Are you kidding me? Does Ann know anything about economics? How is a $100 million investment going to kill any economic engine? Money is fuel, Ann. Besides, the Bell South tower (a tall building) helped start that economic engine, Ann.

Specifically, how do these proposals damage the historic fabric of Broadway? Even if they did, how much difference would it make? The Westin developer is more than willing to go the extra mile to save and preserve what is now rundown by most standards and the BBS property is a PARKING LOT! Again, the Bell South tower is nearly as close to Broadway as the Westin would be and as close as BBS. Did it destroy any history?

Why do all of these people who own nothing get to tell the property owners what they can and can't do with it? I think it is time Nashville re-examine "The Plan" and those who treat it as a constitution. A well planned guide to consult is one thing, an unwritten law to restrict the private property rights of citizens is another. Personally, I hope BBS lowers the legal boom on this crowd.

I know all here will not agree with me but maybe it is time, as mentioned at our monthly meets, that our forum get a bit more active in support of certain projects. There is no reason why we can't have well developed plans for both low and high-rise buildings in all areas of downtown.

Whew, I need an emoticon with flames shooting out its mouth.

[Lexy]

This is absolutely ridiculous. "If we start eroding it, we will kill an area that is a hot area and has been an economic engine," said Ann Roberts. Are you kidding me? Does Ann know anything about economics? How is a $100 million investment going to kill any economic engine? Money is fuel, Ann. Besides, the Bell South tower (a tall building) helped start that economic engine, Ann.

Better question. Does a nightclub really generate that much in yearly income to the city???? I didn't realize that a block, which has been home to countless nightclubs (far too many to remember), was that hot of an economic engine. She's an idiot of biblical proportions.

[chris holman]

How in the world will a $100 million dollar mix use Westin Hotel with condos, retail and a music venue kill the growing economics of SO BO

They also said they don't care for the 28 storey tower proposal either witch also have retail and will probably be another $100 million+ dollar project.

$200 million+ developments together. What else do they want?

Does this city cater more to the tourist atmosphere or the actual citizens of the city?

I think Ann Robers is from the old way of thinking in Nashville. There has to be a change in the way of thinking when it comes to major developments such as these downtown.

[Lexy]

I'm with SkyscraperGeek in his thinking. Maybe we should get more "Public" with our stances and beliefs. Anyone agree?

[chris holman]

I'm with SkyscraperGeek in his thinking. Maybe we should get more "Public" with our stances and beliefs. Anyone agree?

I agree as well!!!

[Skyscrapergeek]

Better question. Does a nightclub really generate that much in yearly income to the city???? I didn't realize that a block, which has been home to countless nightclubs (far too many to remember), was that hot of an economic engine. She's an idiot of biblical proportions.

Yep, that is a very good point Lexy. Hmmmm let's see $100 million oooorrrrr Decades. Well it does have a kind of historical type name.

[Lexy]

Yep, that is a very good point Lexy. Hmmmm let's see $100 million oooorrrrr Decades. Well it does have a kind of historical type name.

Maybe it's the kinky views up into the second level dance floor of the club. That's where tourist/citizens can easily gawk at a girl getting "loved on" on the dance floor that people (like Ann Roberts) will miss the most. Who knows. LOL!!!!

[Richard Lawson]

Better question. Does a nightclub really generate that much in yearly income to the city???? I didn't realize that a block, which has been home to countless nightclubs (far too many to remember), was that hot of an economic engine. She's an idiot of biblical proportions.

Now, now we don't want to call Ann an idiot. All here should understand that Roberts and the historical commission have been involved with lower Broad for 30 years during times when the area was filled with strip clubs and other adult businesses. They have reminded the community to not forget about that area. And it obviously has revived, primarily with developments around it. She and her crew are very passionate about the issues. One could argue that the passion blinds them from a broader perspective, much like the passion of anyone supporting a single cause or issue, for example, voters who will only vote for someone who is pro-choice or pro-life regardless of whatever else the candidate believes. They are as passionate about not harming the area as most here and others are about getting such a project built.

The challenge they face and all supporters of downtown development face is how to blend the new with the old. Cawthorn's comment is pretty interesting that people will get used to it as they did BellSouth and the arena.

I posed some questions here before about what really constitutes the historic character of Nashville? I've been here for 10 years. What I've learned is that Nashville is a city that reinvents itself, bringing in new, replacing the old while retaining some vestiges of the past. Nashville isn't like Charleston. Nashville isn't like Memphis an old Mississippi River commerce center. It has a wonderful stock of old buildings primarily because it's downtown died and buildings were left to rot. Timing and tax credits out the wazoo (I think that is how it is spelled) have been reviving the old buildings. That street car system is pretty darn nice and progressive for a city that has utterly screwed politics. In many respects, Memphis has a more old urban feel than Nashville. If it's downtown had evolved as a corporate center the way Nashville did, those old buildings might not exist. If Nashville's downtown had died that way, there wouldn't be nearly as many tall buildings. Part of the reason why the buildings along Lower Broad exist now is that it was forgotten for so long. Second Avenue was the initial focus for saving. But I'm still trying to figure out how BellSouth got that ugly switching tower in downtown along Second Avenue. Think about all the old buildings that have been wiped out in downtown Nashville over the decades. What was on the L&C site before it was built in the middle of the 20th century? Yet that building is historic now. It seems to me that Nashville has pretty much been more of a suburban city in its history. Many of those early suburbs are now urban. For the past couple of decades, Nashville has been reinventing its downtown. Before Tony G. built the Cumberland Apartments in the late 1990s, zoning downtown did allow new residential construction in the CBD for decades. Now we are looking at "downtown" extending to south of Broad, once one of the poorest parts of Nashville, with the height limitations increased to 20 stories or more.

So do you retain all that is historic and forsake new development? Or do you retain vestiges of the past while bringing in the new? Just something to chew on.

[Lexy]

Very good post Richard and you are right. I shouldn't have called her an idiot. I think your point about their passion blinding them is a great one. And it could be applied to me sometimes. LOL!!!!

[ATLBrain]

So do you retain all that is historic and forsake new development? Or do you retain vestiges of the past while bringing in the new? Just something to chew on.

The latter.

[Skyscrapergeek]

That is a wonderful post Richard. Level heads are so annoying. I would agree with the latter as well, Brain. After all, no one is suggesting we tear down a lot of historic buildings in either the case of the Westin or BBS. Height is going to happen. We better take the good ones when they come along.

[LA_TN]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: if you don't like high-rises, don't look up!

Thanks for the article and your input, Richard, very informative

[Skyscrapergeek]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: if you don't like high-rises, don't look up!

Ahhhh, spoken like a true Geek.

[prguy]

I'm with SkyscraperGeek in his thinking. Maybe we should get more "Public" with our stances and beliefs. Anyone agree?

Should you decide to get more active or public with your opinions on this project, I'd be delighted to offer some suggestions that would be helpful to my client.

[titanhog]

Should you decide to get more active or public with your opinions on this project, I'd be delighted to offer some suggestions that would be helpful to my client.

Thanks prguy. If we can help this project happen, we'll do what we can.

[prguy]

Thanks prguy. If we can help this project happen, we'll do what we can.

Thanks for the kind offer. Here are some ideas for your consideration:

A letter of support to Councilman Mike Jameson (or your councilmember) asking for support of the project.

Letters of support to the Board of Zoning Appeals and/or Planning Commission.

Copy all letters to Rick Bernhardt at Planning Department.

Write a letter of support to editor of Tennessean and/or CityPaper.

Talk up the project among your friends.

Metropolitan Planning Department

Nashville and Davidson County

800 Second Avenue South

[Hankster]

Should you decide to get more active or public with your opinions on this project, I'd be delighted to offer some suggestions that would be helpful to my client.

Maybe we could put together a plan for the group to help promote these two projects, the Westin, and Bass, Berry Sims, at our next forum meet on August 6th. We usually have about 15 or so show up. I plan to be there, and we'd love to have you come too, prguy.

[NewTowner]

The challenge they face and all supporters of downtown development face is how to blend the new with the old. Cawthorn's comment is pretty interesting that people will get used to it as they did BellSouth and the arena.

...

So do you retain all that is historic and forsake new development? Or do you retain vestiges of the past while bringing in the new? Just something to chew on.

Mr. Lawson, I honestly expect more from an educated, thoughtful, and articulate follower of our city's urban fabric. Your recent statement, auto-summarized above, reveals a conspicuous and uncharacteristic failure to achieve a basic grasp on the issue.

The reason the Westin is such a contentious project is not entirely due to its newness in the face of Lower Broadway's supposed oldness. This issue of historic preservation is an issue--but it is far from the only one, or even the most important one.

The issue, in the end, is whether or not a high-rise south of Broadway is desirable at all. If the proposed Westin was considerably shorter, or even somewhat shorter, it would gain a lot more friends. If its long and important fa

[LA_TN]

^ Yeah, right...

Anyway, prguy, do you have an address you'd like copied as well?

[frankliner]

New Towner, unlike what it seems are the vast majority of forumers on here, I agree with most of the points you have raised. Although I come at it from a more historic preservation side to the scale arguement, I appreciate you putting many of my other concerns far more eloquently and structured than I can at the moment.

[NewTowner]

New Towner, unlike what it seems are the vast majority of forumers on here, I agree with most of the points you have raised. Although I come at it from a more historic preservation side to the scale arguement, I appreciate you putting many of my other concerns far more eloquently and structured than I can at the moment.

Thank you! It is hard being in the minority, *sniffles*, but it is good to feel that right is on your side. The proposed Westin could really gain a lot more support from the professional circles if it just took a bolder step in that "old-fashioned" beauty direction, which is one of the great unarticulated desires of the Historic Preservation crowd.

A cursory glance at the many places you have lived, Frankliner--Richmond, Nashville, Washington, London--reveals how you may have picked up an eye for good urbanism. The "yeah, right" crowd here at the lovely Urban Planet should invest at least some of their stifling sarcasm into a stand-up comedy routine that would propel them into the halls of Europe. A little travel--and I don't mean a little bus tour or a stop-off, but rather a sustained and deep imbibing of a great city over many weeks--would go a long way for those who doubt the merits of thoughtful and thorough urban design.

I really don't have a problem with folks who just disagree with my assertion that beauty should be a cultural objective, or that it is more important than the sensual sublime of a towering high-rise. I do wish my points would be directly debated a little more often, rather than just poo-pooed into Pooh Corner.

PrGuy, as your project continues to undergo changes, it may gain support--but in the meantime, I would think twice about assembling a platform of high-rise support. Highness and Riseness are only two of the many issues currently being kicked around in the public corridors.

[titanhog]

Nt...you make some great points. I too feel like the Westin project could use some improvement. It still looks like an old hospital to me. But...I do want this project to make it...just needs a few of the improvements you mentioned.

[prguy]

Maybe we could put together a plan for the group to help promote these two projects, the Westin, and Bass, Berry Sims, at our next forum meet on August 6th. We usually have about 15 or so show up. I plan to be there, and we'd love to have you come too, prguy.

Thanks for the kind offer. I am forwarding your invitation to both parties. We are now advising on the BBS project as well.

[prguy]

^ Yeah, right...

Anyway, prguy, do you have an address you'd like copied as well?

If it's not too much trouble, please copy me:

Keith Miles

McNeely Pigott & Fox

611 Commerce Street, Suite 2800

Nashville, TN 37203

I understand and respect that there are a wide variety of opinions regarding this project from participants in this thread. For those of you with concerns that keep you from endorsing this project, and who write letters, I'd be pleased to get copies of those as well, if you like. I will make sure the client sees them.

[prguy]

PrGuy, as your project continues to undergo changes, it may gain support--but in the meantime, I would think twice about assembling a platform of high-rise support. Highness and Riseness are only two of the many issues currently being kicked around in the public corridors.

Point taken.

I have found all opinions on this thread to be very helpful, and I believe the client has as well.