Signature Tower out of Place?

[Skyscrapergeek]

As tistic stated before, class envy should have no place in this discussion. If it is OK to criticise a development for appealing to the "haves", then we must criticise ALL development. If we are to point the finger at those above us on the economic scale, we must point the finger at ourselves for there are many who are below us. Just because one lives above your means does not make that person guilty of egotistical or excessive living. Again, to do so is hypocritical as there are many with less that would say the same about you. Should we as a nation give away every bit of our earned wealth because third world countries exist? We all qualify as the "haves" compared to these countries. The poor will always be with us and will always be the responsibility of those with love for their fellow human beings.

The condition of the "have nots" will not change if Signature Tower disappears. To view ST as a symbol of excess is to display unwarranted envy and jealousy. Only the behavior of individuals can determine the moral quality of life irrespective of how much one "has" or "doesn't have". It is unfair to judge another's character based on means. Poverty can corrupt as completely as wealth. I have seen billionaires give away fortunes and those without hoard every penny. I've been guilty of the latter and dream of being the former. However, no matter where I end up on the economic scale, what matters is what I do with what I have and whether I live in Signature Tower, a downtown low-rise loft, a brownstone, or the projects, I will always be responsible for my own actions regardless of where my neighbor lives.

[ATLBrain]

I guess I don't pay enough attention to who's living large and how disgraceful or shameful or vulgar or ohmygodI'mgoingtoexplode... pooooof.... whew, I feel better now. Where was I, oh yes, I think that comparing one's situation to those who appear to have more or a better life is a sure-fire way to stay unhappy.

Sure, I personally would like to see something on a smaller scale only b/c I think that the DT skyline will appear a bit off-balance (as I've stated above in this thread), at least for some period of time. But I'm also excited to see something this big and fascinating go up anywhere. It happens to be going into the heart of one of my favorite cities.

[Lexy]

Screw it! If people can afford to live in it (Sig Tower), and they want to.....who's gonna stop them from doing what they want? Isn't that part of the "American Dream". If you want to be able to live up there in the clouds, then do something about it. If not, then enjoy what you have and be happy with it. Strive to be the best at what you do and the riches will come, in more ways than one. There is nothing wrong with wealth and having enough money to flaunt it around like a young person's virginity. That's half the fun. The other half is tallying up the bills after a day or two out on the town. LOL!!

[MidTenn1]

Indeed. UrbanPlanet is here to promote cities and the urban environment, not skyscrapers, (there are other places for that). Skyscrapers can add or detract (which is often the case as they are built in the South) from urban living so the question and discussion are very valid.

Obviously, it is difficult to separate the City from the skyscraper in this case. So I will chime in here on why I think the Signature Tower is the perfect building for Nashville.

I was born and raised here. Even though I now live just outside the City, I work, play, shop, eat, romance, get healed and get educated here. In my various incarnations as an engineer, I have contributed significantly to the building of this City. I have roamed the streets of East Nashville, West End and Dickerson Road as a youth and I know how special and uniquely eccentric this place is.

Three Presidents, one near miss (Gore) and Davey Crockett have come through here. This is where Women won the right to vote. We were the first southern city to integrate, and the leaders of that movement took it on into the deep south to bring change to that region of the country.

The City built a State Capitol that dominated the skyline in the early 1800's. The Capitol broke the mold somewhat by rejecting the traditional dome in favor of the classical 'lantern'. The City then built a Greek temple and later put the world's largest indoor sculpture inside it.

The City was the only major City in the USA to legalize prostitution (during the Civil War occupation) and the Printers Alley was a well known destination for adult entertainment. Nashville was once noted in a major magazine in the 50's as having the largest gambling industry outside of Las Vegas.

But most importantly, the City built two of the more powerful radio transmitters in the country. One, WLAC, broadcast music of black artists which numerous icons of the early rock and roll days credit as a major influence. The other, WSM, broadcast the Grand Ol' Opry. We know what happened from that. We built 'Music Row' on the west side. Later we built a roundabout and then we added a statue featuring several naked people as an icon for the area.

We built 'Lower Broad' where it's rows of honkey tonks and souvenir shops have become the third largest entertainment district of any major, southern city. And the impact of the music industry can only be fully appreciated by long time residents. Several of my friends, neighbors and relatives have Grammy awards and platinum albums, and I have nothing to do with music. The industry attracts celebrities from all over and you are very likely to run into Hollywood stars at our restaurants and malls. And they like it because we tend to leave them alone.

Most of us don't mind the Country Music and hillbilly references from uninformed individuals from other less interesting Cities. I see it as envy.

We do not want to be another Atlanta, as the popular saying goes around here. Let Atlanta be Atlanta. We just want to be Nashville. We want to be different, special, a little eccentric and violate peoples expectations regarding our place in the so called heirarchy of Cities.

So if someone wants to build a 1000' tall building downtown, I think it fits into Nashville's image, character and personality just perfectly. I say, what took us so long!

[Onyte9]

^nice one!

[titanhog]

I personally have no problem with ANYONE stating their position on the ST. To each his own. As far as I can tell, most observations on the ST are subjective, so it's very difficult for anyone to truly "win" the debate. I will say this...I can support most comments until I start hearing people talk about "class warfare" and wealth vs. poverty. I grew up in a home with a father that always cussed the rich. He voted one way, yet never took the time to find out that 99% of his beliefs paralleled the opposite party. As I entered the work force and the "real world", I found that most of the money that made this country tick actually came from those who were considered "wealthy"...the same ones my father cussed. He's now taking disability, even though I believe he could work if he wanted. The ones that pay the largest part of my father's disability are the wealthy. The ones who employed my father when he squandered away his own business were the wealthy. If not for the wealthy, this country would be a third world state. The wealthy of this country actually keep the poor from being any poorer than they already are. I want the poor to have a chance to rise to the middle, or even the top...and I believe most dream of being wealthy. So...why despise what you desire to attain? Ah...envy.

[smeagolsfree]

So I will get back to the question, does the building of the Signature tower represent a revival for Nashville, or is it a building of a vertical McMansion?

I think it may be both. We can have both and still win. There are so many views on this site that no one can be pleased all the time. Doorman wants all skyscrapers to be built in the core, many others want mid rise buildings everywhere. I dont think there is a simple answer to the question, but one think is for certain. I dont know if this will open the door to more skyscrapers downtown, but Nashville is already in a revival. Whats going to happen is going to happen and there is not a whole lot we can do here to tell someone else they cannot full fill their dream. In this case, its Tony's dream and the people that move there. I think the tower will be a great addition to Nashville and the skyline. Why? I like great buildings and the Signature is going to be a great building as is the Symphony Hall and the Capital and the Parthenon. The Signature will be one of the buildings that define what Nashville is, just as those buildings I mentioned previously.

[jdavidf]

With all the concern about whether this single building is going to ignite a "revival for Nashville," or whether it will look out of place or ruin the skyline or be a haven for the greedy rich with no concern for the urban fabric, etc., one question.

Does anybody expect this to be a one shot deal? Don't we anticipate a variety of housing types and price points in downtown? Are we able to look ahead far enough to a envision a dowtown with a diverse collection of residences? That's what I'm looking forward to. Maybe I'm just too naive to know any better.

I doubt I'll be able to move into Signature.. you never know, life turns on a dime, after all. But I can't wait to see this one (of very many) symbols of Nashville's up-and-coming-ness and really can't wait for the next, and the next and the one after that!

David

[nashvol85]

So I will get back to the question, does the building of the Signature tower represent a revival for Nashville, or is it a building of a vertical McMansion? Does the construction of this building add or detract from making Nashvile into a more desirable city with street life, a sense of community for people living there, and enough people living there to allow for the development of and effective and used public transit system? I am not sure the crowing rights that it is the highest residential tower in the SE, is going to do this, as one, that won't last, and two, and vertical McMansion is unlikely to do any of the above. (If you accept the fact this is a vertical McMansion)

Several points that I wish to make:

- Every city has projects that may or may not be necessary. On some levels, does the Nashville Symphony really need a world class Symphony Hall? Probably not, but By God we're building one.

- Does Signature need to be that tall? No, not necessarily, but to answer your point about adding to a city's street life and whatnot, adding several hundred (several thousand if you include the other projects proposed or u/c) citizens to the downtown area, it will enhance the street life tenfold from what it is right now. Yes, we have a touristy town, but most of the nightlife is limited to 2 streets. When all of these projects are finished, you can add Church Street to that list.

- Making Signature so big isn't necessarily about just trying to make a supertall so that we can say that we have one. It serves other purposes. Nashville has a need for downtown residents, and this is a good "quick fix" for putting them there. Yeah, Nashville has a lot of useable land, but do we always have to keep expanding? Why not save some space?

- Only the rich will live there...so what? If the rich want to live downtown, they need a nicer place than what some of these apartments or condos are currently offering. It's not like every proposal downtown is just for the top 5-10% of the local income level...why can't we have a few?

- Comparing this tower to McMansions? Are you KIDDING me? McMansions are gaudy and overdone. They are not beautiful or graceful. This tower is gorgeous. When it is built, I would imagine that it will be considered not only Nashville's best and most SIGNATURE skyscraper, but also the most beautiful.

- What does it mean to have the tallest tower in the Southeast? People want to see it! Not only will it be an attraction and photo opportunity, but there are some from out of town with extra money who wouldn't mind owning a share of this building so that either they can have a second home in Nashville or a place to put business partners and whatnot during their stay in Nashville.

- How long will Signature look "out of place"? Who knows, but now that the thousand foot mark will be cleared, this will open the door for many proposals for office towers and hotels to reach past the 500' mark that was previously the imagined ceiling in this city. Who knows, before the end of its construction, Signature may have a sibiling in the works...

- This tower isn't necessarily just about the urban life and development, but more about creating something special, not just for the city, but the southeast. People from around the country will know its name and recognize its picture...that kind of publicity is priceless.

[ATLBrain]

I understand what you're asking Metro. In light of corporate flight out of DT to Franklin/CS/Brentwood and Green Hills, I think DT has been in need of something like a revival. Heaven knows, it's still hurting in the office development arena. The entertainment options DT have grown steadily, if somewhat slowly.

As such, I'd say Signature is a symbol of that revival in one obvious area, an emergence of DT as a livable spot. This trend may be the leading edge of a return of corporate offices and other commerce to DT (the hoped-for 24-hour DT). As things are now, Nashville is not there yet. I think Signature sparks hope in everybody on this forum that it represents a turnaround coming from the private sector. If Purcell ever gets off his duff, then the new convention center will represent that revival on the public side.

I think most people who see Nashville's tremendous potential have faith that Signature is only the start of a wide range of future developments. Some are especially excited by a belief that there will be more tall buildings like in Atlanta. Others (myself included) are quite excited by the prospect of the baseball park and the riverfront greenway. While Signature is a symbol of the revival, I expect those other projects will spur more life DT than Sig.

[jice]

- Comparing this tower to McMansions? Are you KIDDING me? McMansions are gaudy and overdone. They are not beautiful or graceful. This tower is gorgeous. When it is built, I would imagine that it will be considered not only Nashville's best and most SIGNATURE skyscraper, but also the most beautiful.

Also... McMansions are named as such because of the fact that they are everywhere, somewhat mass-produced, and usually made of fairly cheap materials. None of which are things that Signature would ever be, I wouldn't imagine.

I do understand the concept though... and don't really see a problem with it. If rich people want to live in a skyscraper, so be it. It's better than the alternative... more McMansions scattered throughout the countryside. I would imagine the market for a Signature condo is quite different than for the smaller projects being built, thus those who can afford Sig, probably wouldnt settle for something less.

[sleepy]

I don't have a clue what the current downtown Nashville residential market is like in terms of income, but a positive for the Sig Tower--and yes, I understand the negatives, only 400 units, not walkable, etc.--is that it would legitimate downtown as a residential market: if uber-wealthy buyers are willing to plunk down the big bucks, it would be a testament to that market and perhaps lead to more middle-class developments and residents who might have been a bit more hesitant to jump in.

[Lexy]

I think the bottom line is you have got to have a stable wealthy base before you can have the rest. Middle Class isn't going to want to live with nobody but the rich, and the same with the lower class and middle living close to one another. Just drive down some roads and you see the difference.

Without that wealthy base, it is hard to get the rest of the classes down to where you want them to be in a location.

[Lady Celeste]

Several points that I wish to make:

- What does it mean to have the tallest tower in the Southeast? People want to see it! Not only will it be an attraction and photo opportunity, but there are some from out of town with extra money who wouldn't mind owning a share of this building so that either they can have a second home in Nashville or a place to put business partners and whatnot during their stay in Nashville.

Interesting statement. The BOA building has been in Atlanta since 1992. Never in the years it has been built have anyone every asked me to see it because it is the tallest building in the southeast. After all the furor boils down, noone will take pictures of it because it is the tallest building in the southeast. I would wager that most will take pictures of it because it is the signature building of Nashville...like the current day Batman building. If I'm driving or flying into Nashville from Atlanta, trust me when I say, the last thing I will ask someone there is to show me the Signature building. I will want to see something uniquely Nashville...take me to the Grand Ole Opry.

As far as the statement with owing property there....I can cosign with that statement. Again, it will not be because of how tall the Signature Tower is but rather those wonderful views of the city one is afforded by living in there. That's what piqued my interest.

[nashvol85]

Interesting statement. The BOA building has been in Atlanta since 1992. Never in the years it has been built have anyone every asked me to see it because it is the tallest building in the southeast. After all the furor boils down, noone will take pictures of it because it is the tallest building in the southeast. I would wager that most will take pictures of it because it is the signature building of Nashville...like the current day Batman building. If I'm driving or flying into Nashville from Atlanta, trust me when I say, the last thing I will ask someone there is to show me the Signature building. I will want to see something uniquely Nashville...take me to the Grand Ole Opry.

When I have travelled through Atlanta, I couldn't tell which building was the tallest in town. From the street level it is hard to tell because the buildings are so, so spread out that it is hard to compare one from the other. BoA is also not a particularly striking building architectually or a building that stands out from the crowd...

Signature will definately stand out. It is a far more striking design than BoA...imagine if BoA had been built in Atlanta in 1970-1975...

As far as the statement with owing property there....I can cosign with that statement. Again, it will not be because of how tall the Signature Tower is but rather those wonderful views of the city one is afforded by living in there. That's what piqued my interest.

I understand that...but the way that people from out of town will hear about this tower probably won't be "a new tower in Nashville offers great views of the city"...it will be more of "this is the tallest residential tower in America"...so in some ways people will know about it like people know about the astounding height of the Peachtree Hotel in Atlanta.

[Lady Celeste]

When I have travelled through Atlanta, I couldn't tell which building was the tallest in town. From the street level it is hard to tell because the buildings are so, so spread out that it is hard to compare one from the other. BoA is also not a particularly striking building architectually or a building that stands out from the crowd...

This makes absolutely no sense. The BOA tower is right across the street (North Avenue) from the 677' tall Bellsouth Corporate headquarters. It is also perhaps three city blocks from the 871' tall SunTrust Plaza and an additional two blocks from 770' 191 Peachtree Tower, the 723' tall Westin Peachtree Plaza and another block from the 697' tall Georgia Pacific building. When people say that Atlanta's skyline is spread out, they are referencing the distance between the CBD, Midtown and Buckhead. I would guess that Atlanta's BOA tower is no further away from the SunTurst Plaza than the Signature Tower will be from the Bellsouth building in Nashville.

The point I was making was not who is dense or not....the POINT is big buildings will NOT...I repeat...will NOT make people from other cities come visit you. Do you really think someone from New York or Houston visits Atlanta because the BOA tower is 1023' tall? You diluted my statement and tried to direct it into another direction instead of directly focusing in on the point I was making. You said people will visit Nashville because of the Signature Tower and will want to take pictures in front of it. I'm telling you, they will not. The average person could care less if it's 1023' or 1047' tall. Most people live in large cities with buildings and 90% of them don't even know or could care less the actual height of the buildings.

The BOA tower in Charlotte is stunning. It stands out. I highly doubt people go to Charlotte just to take pictures in front of the BOA tower. The RSA building in Mobile is attactive. It's the tallest in Alabama. How many people (averge joes, not people who salivate over tall buildings) do you think will visit Mobile just to see this building? The average family of four (those who actually take frequent vacations with money to spend) are not going to cities to look at buildings. Perhaps...and I say perhaps....those coming from rural areas of certain states. Even then, they would have to have some knowledge of the heights and these heights in reference to other towers in the US or world. Most Americans could not begin to tell you where the tallest building in the world is located. If they can, I doubt most can even point to it's location on a map.

Signature will definately stand out. It is a far more striking design than BoA...imagine if BoA had been built in Atlanta in 1970-1975...

Again, this is only to further alter the direction of my main point.

...but the way that people from out of town will hear about this tower probably won't be "a new tower in Nashville offers great views of the city"...it will be more of "this is the tallest residential tower in America"...so in some ways people will know about it like people know about the astounding height of the Peachtree Hotel in Atlanta.

Question....without looking up the information, what is currently the tallest residential tower in the US? Do you know of people in Nashville who want to fly to that city to view it? I couldn't tell you which city has the current tallest residential tower in the US. I live near a city with buildings so the last thing I want to do is go to another city to view it's buildings. In North America there may be three...possibly five exceptions...Toronto, New York and Chicago. I have been to Chicago several times and my mother was a New Yorker so now when I go, I don't gawk at the buildings. You are just like "yeah, okay."

My point of contention is not that the Signature Tower is a great building. It is...I just think that your statement that it will be some sort of tourist draw (Nashville is full of many things currently that attract people to the city) is not whole true...especially when so many cities have large towers.

If I'm flying to Chicago, it's not to see the Sears Tower...I'm trying to get on Oprah!!!

[it's just dave]

Celeste, I agree completely with you on this. I remember going to various cities on my little spontaneous roadtrips having really no idea in advance of what was going to strike me as interesting at any of the places I visited. I did it for the pure adventure. And so many times, including the BOA in Atlanta many years ago, I just drove by looked up, and thought, "wow, cool, look at that." That's the fun of it all. People will come to Nashville for the reasons they've always come to Nashville. What we'll be giving them with Siggie is something so unexpected, so unforeseen, it'll be fun for them. My first trip to Charlotte, for instance, was about the time the BOA tower was finished. After I'd found out where Charlotte was, thanks Rand MacNally, I went downtown and "discovered" this really cool, tall building. I wasn't expecting that. I took pictures. And I never forgot it, but I certainly didn't know it existed beforehand, and outside a few who following these things, people won't for the most part know about our tall building. But it'll be lots of fun having it, lots of fun looking at it, and lots of fun driving by it. I'm sure it'll be lots of fun living in it. It'll be a added bonus for those who visit us, but will rarely be the reason for the trip. Added value ... that's important.

Now, Tony, dig.

[barakat]

Agreed, Celeste. As much as I appreciate its built environment, when I go to Atlanta, I do so for concerts, Six Flags, retail unfound in Nashville, and to visit friends. The buildings are scenery.

[LA_TN]

I agree people will not travel to a city to see a bldg (although L'ville is going to try it). But w/ family & friends from rural areas to Toronto I can assure you that adding Sig T will help the impression that Nashville is growing. Outsiders always ask 'what's that bldg?' I think their impression may be slightly less when the learn Sig T is residential (where's the big office bldgs???)

Anyway, I think Sig T is a good photo op and promotes a good impression. But when I had extended family from Toronto visit last year, walking DT was a requirement...

[nashvol85]

This makes absolutely no sense. The BOA tower is right across the street (North Avenue) from the 677' tall Bellsouth Corporate headquarters. It is also perhaps three city blocks from the 871' tall SunTrust Plaza and an additional two blocks from 770' 191 Peachtree Tower, the 723' tall Westin Peachtree Plaza and another block from the 697' tall Georgia Pacific building. When people say that Atlanta's skyline is spread out, they are referencing the distance between the CBD, Midtown and Buckhead. I would guess that Atlanta's BOA tower is no further away from the SunTurst Plaza than the Signature Tower will be from the Bellsouth building in Nashville.

No sense? I don't think you understood what I was going at. The point I was making is not its proximity to other skyscrapers, but the fact that there are some very tall buildings that have a roof around 700-800 ft spread across the city. When travelling through on I-75 from the street level and rubbernecking to look at the buildings, it's difficult to judge unless you know what you are looking for. Signature will stand out not only from the skyline angle, but from street level quite a bit.

The point I was making was not who is dense or not....the POINT is big buildings will NOT...I repeat...will NOT make people from other cities come visit you. Do you really think someone from New York or Houston visits Atlanta because the BOA tower is 1023' tall? You diluted my statement and tried to direct it into another direction instead of directly focusing in on the point I was making. You said people will visit Nashville because of the Signature Tower and will want to take pictures in front of it. I'm telling you, they will not. The average person could care less if it's 1023' or 1047' tall. Most people live in large cities with buildings and 90% of them don't even know or could care less the actual height of the buildings.

I wasn't trying to imply that people would travel across the country to view this building as if it were some kind of holy relic...not at all. More like the people that DID travel here would say "WOW" when they saw it...not necessarily the New Yorkers, Chicagoans, et al, but the kind of people that came here thinking that Nashville was just some country music tourist attraction, not expecting to see such a massive building. And the point about the photo op isn't talking about people travelling from far away to just take a picture, but more like instead of just taking pictures of tourist attractions they might take some skyline shots as well.

The actual height doesn't really matter...people can tell when a building is very, very tall compared to those in other cities.

The BOA tower in Charlotte is stunning. It stands out. I highly doubt people go to Charlotte just to take pictures in front of the BOA tower. The RSA building in Mobile is attactive. It's the tallest in Alabama. How many people (averge joes, not people who salivate over tall buildings) do you think will visit Mobile just to see this building? The average family of four (those who actually take frequent vacations with money to spend) are not going to cities to look at buildings. Perhaps...and I say perhaps....those coming from rural areas of certain states. Even then, they would have to have some knowledge of the heights and these heights in reference to other towers in the US or world. Most Americans could not begin to tell you where the tallest building in the world is located. If they can, I doubt most can even point to it's location on a map.

Again, this is only to further alter the direction of my main point.

*yawn*

Question....without looking up the information, what is currently the tallest residential tower in the US? Do you know of people in Nashville who want to fly to that city to view it? I couldn't tell you which city has the current tallest residential tower in the US. I live near a city with buildings so the last thing I want to do is go to another city to view it's buildings. In North America there may be three...possibly five exceptions...Toronto, New York and Chicago. I have been to Chicago several times and my mother was a New Yorker so now when I go, I don't gawk at the buildings. You are just like "yeah, okay."

Not sure about the tallest. I would guess the Trump tower in New York...I know it's 6-700 feet tall.

The point about it being the tallest residential building would be more for the point that it would just be listed on a fact sheet, not that it would be widely known. I guess I mentioned that because I am one of those people that picks up on random facts like that...it might be one of those things where someone comes across that..."wow...I didn't know that"...then go look up some information on the tower online (not to buy a condo or something...just out of curiousity...am I the only freakin person that does that?).

My point of contention is not that the Signature Tower is a great building. It is...I just think that your statement that it will be some sort of tourist draw (Nashville is full of many things currently that attract people to the city) is not whole true...especially when so many cities have large towers.

If I'm flying to Chicago, it's not to see the Sears Tower...I'm trying to get on Oprah!!!

Lady Celeste, it wasn't my intention to make you think that this would be a big huge tourist attraction for people to line up and pay to go see...not at all. More like something that people will look at and take pictures of after they already get here. I'm sorry if my enthusiasm makes me type things that make me look like a complete jackass, but I think some people on here are taking statements of what I think are possibilities a little too seriously. Sorry for the "confusion".

btw, this won't have an observation deck most likely, so there wouldn't be the same type of attraction you see like you do for the Sears Tower, the Empire State Building, the Stratosphere, or the Space Needle.

[nashvillwill]

I thought the restaurant name was "Pinnacle"? Either way, I really miss it. Great date spot!

[barakat]

I thought the restaurant name was "Pinnacle"? Either way, I really miss it. Great date spot!

The 2nd incarnation of the restaurant was named Pinnacle, but the original name was Polaris.

[reednavy05]

showin how young i am (1987 baby) when the hell did it go outta commission. my parents told me about it and i wanted to one day take a date there, but heck naw those beotches closed it, wtf? can we get a petition signed to turn it back on?, im sure it would be an even bigger hit nowadays than back then

[Hankster]

showin how young i am (1987 baby) when the hell did it go outta commission. my parents told me about it and i wanted to one day take a date there, but heck naw those beotches closed it, wtf? can we get a petition signed to turn it back on?, im sure it would be an even bigger hit nowadays than back then

[cheeriokid61]

It was probably just to expensive to maintain.