Branson/Springfield

[masons_dad1]

First of all, I doubt Springfield will ever reach much higher than what it is now. If you will look at the numbers, Springfield actually lost about 1,000 residents from the last census to the 2004 estimate. It'll be interesting to see what it was for 2005. People are moving out of Springfield and into nearby cities. That's another unfortunate thing for Springfield only being 70 sq. miles, it's not all that big and people will continue to fight it getting more dense, just as they do in NWA. Springfield as a city is shrinking, not growing.

As far as Bentonville, it was near 28,000 in 2004...it's two years later and the estimates for the area are always off due to the high growth. So, they're thinking the special census will be close to 40,000.

By the way, competition between cities bring greater developments. Competitiion is always good. I also don't think we have to worry about any of the cities "falling behind" anytime soon. They're all growing at healthy rates. There will be a lot more developments between these core cities, than the one core city of Springfield.

I was wondering with all the statistics everyone keeps posting why noone posted that Springfield actually lost around .6% between 2000 and 2004. I thought I saw this number at around -2%. What is bring about this population shift to the suburbs? Is Springfield becoming too congested or maybe homes are more affordable in the suburbs? I think being this close to the official 2010 US Census statistics are much harder to estimate. But you are right about Springfield metro's core city is shrinking whereas all of NWA's cities are growing.

Competition is definitely good for the core cities of NWA, but it gets kind of nasty when one city has more money to spend on infrastructure when another city actually has more needs. But so far the cities here are cooperating with each other. And each city does actually have it's share of business, retail, restaurants and distribution of wealth. The only drawback IMO is that where Crystal Bridges Museum of American Art is being built in Bentonville it should really be going into Fayetteville since Fayetteville already has such a strong arts community. Spreading these kinds of developments over all the core cities will dilute their impact overall than if each city would focus on their strongest influence in the region.

[tim2462]

I was wondering with all the statistics everyone keeps posting why noone posted that Springfield actually lost around .6% between 2000 and 2004. I thought I saw this number at around -2%. What is bring about this population shift to the suburbs? Is Springfield becoming too congested or maybe homes are more affordable in the suburbs? I think being this close to the official 2010 US Census statistics are much harder to estimate. But you are right about Springfield metro's core city is shrinking whereas all of NWA's cities are growing.

Competition is definitely good for the core cities of NWA, but it gets kind of nasty when one city has more money to spend on infrastructure when another city actually has more needs. But so far the cities here are cooperating with each other. And each city does actually have it's share of business, retail, restaurants and distribution of wealth. The only drawback IMO is that where Crystal Bridges Museum of American Art is being built in Bentonville it should really be going into Fayetteville since Fayetteville already has such a strong arts community. Spreading these kinds of developments over all the core cities will dilute their impact overall than if each city would focus on their strongest influence in the region.

Yeah, they should pick one city to really concentrate on. There's nothing wrong with having 4 core cities...but it would be nice to have 1 of them really shine. I agree that something like the Crystal Bridges should've been in Fayetteville. But, you know they are going to put it where the family came from. Who knows, maybe that'll spark some more cultural stuff in Bentonville/Rogers.

[mcheiss]

Yeah, they should pick one city to really concentrate on. There's nothing wrong with having 4 core cities...but it would be nice to have 1 of them really shine. I agree that something like the Crystal Bridges should've been in Fayetteville. But, you know they are going to put it where the family came from. Who knows, maybe that'll spark some more cultural stuff in Bentonville/Rogers.

I'd like to see the 4 cities and a few others in NWA be incorporated into one for tax reasons. I think we'd get more back in Turnback funds.

[masons_dad1]

I'd like to see the 4 cities and a few others in NWA be incorporated into one for tax reasons. I think we'd get more back in Turnback funds.

That was another one of my reasonings why Springfield seems better off as a single core metro for tax purposes. The whole city benefits from taxes whereas in NWA each city has to figure out how to get more tax revenue which usually involves raising taxes.

I'm not sure what the sales tax is in Springfield, but I know Pineville has much lower sales tax than NWA.

[slyder1]

First of all, I doubt Springfield will ever reach much higher than what it is now. If you will look at the numbers, Springfield actually lost about 1,000 residents from the last census to the 2004 estimate. It'll be interesting to see what it was for 2005. People are moving out of Springfield and into nearby cities. That's another unfortunate thing for Springfield only being 70 sq. miles, it's not all that big and people will continue to fight it getting more dense, just as they do in NWA. Springfield as a city is shrinking, not growing.

LOL....The only reason Springfield lost the people was due to the influx if businesses moving to the downtown area and the developments in downtown. Now about the," I doubt Springfield will ever reach much higher than what it is now".....LOL, First of all you don't know what your talking about, Springfield is seeing a surge of apartment complexe's and homes being built all over the city right now and on the outskirts as well. Where the true city limits stop is actually not where the city stops.......on the south side right next door to the city limits there is nothing but homes, apartments, stores....... once all this annexed, which wont be long, the 200,000 figure will easily be within reach. You said your coming to Springfield, why don't you take a drive downt James River Freeway and go down National Ave or some other north-south corridor and look around......you'll see what I'm talking about and then feel like an idiot. LOL, sometimes you say some of the most stupid things when you don't even know what your talking about.

[tim2462]

LOL....The only reason Springfield lost the people was due to the influx if businesses moving to the downtown area and the developments in downtown. Now about the," I doubt Springfield will ever reach much higher than what it is now".....LOL, First of all you don't know what your talking about, Springfield is seeing a surge of apartment complexe's and homes being built all over the city right now and on the outskirts as well. Where the true city limits stop is actually not where the city stops.......on the south side right next door to the city limits there is nothing but homes, apartments, stores....... once all this annexed, which wont be long, the 200,000 figure will easily be within reach. You said your coming to Springfield, why don't you take a drive downt James River Freeway and go down National Ave or some other north-south corridor and look around......you'll see what I'm talking about and then feel like an idiot. LOL, sometimes you say some of the most stupid things when you don't even know what your talking about.

Even though you called me stupid, I'm going to look past that and be nice :-)

I hate to tell you, but where the city limits end, is where the city ends.

Just because development is happening outside of them, doesn't mean you can all of a sudden

claiim it as city. If that were the case, many "cities" would be much bigger.

Springfield lost population due to influx of business to downtown? huh? that makes no sense.

Yes, They may be building apartments and people may be moving into Springfield, but a bigger

number are moving out to the suburbs, or out of the area all together. causing a net loss, not a gain.

You think 200,000 is within easy reach? Umm, no it's not. There are far more homes and apartments being built in Little Rock and we're having a hard time reaching the 200,000 mark. While there are tons of people moving to Little Rock, there are also people moving to the suburbs from Little Rock.

Springfield will not EVER reach 200,000. It has 70 sq. miles and the citizens will not allow much to be annexed. Springfield will not become much more dense either.

I know you'd like to see Springfield hit 200,000, as would I...but the sad fact is, it won't.

It's losing population, not gaining. Most core cities are barely growing or losing population.

It's the burbs that are growing.

Just because you don't want to face the truth, doesn't make me stupid. It just makes you naieve.

[masons_dad1]

LOL....The only reason Springfield lost the people was due to the influx if businesses moving to the downtown area and the developments in downtown. Now about the," I doubt Springfield will ever reach much higher than what it is now".....LOL, First of all you don't know what your talking about, Springfield is seeing a surge of apartment complexe's and homes being built all over the city right now and on the outskirts as well. Where the true city limits stop is actually not where the city stops.......on the south side right next door to the city limits there is nothing but homes, apartments, stores....... once all this annexed, which wont be long, the 200,000 figure will easily be within reach. You said your coming to Springfield, why don't you take a drive downt James River Freeway and go down National Ave or some other north-south corridor and look around......you'll see what I'm talking about and then feel like an idiot. LOL, sometimes you say some of the most stupid things when you don't even know what your talking about.

Although, Springfield has a lot of great developments and the city is doing some great things with downtown to invite people to move there, tim2462 is right... Springfield as a city is shrinking based soley on census. If That's not to say that Springfield will continue to lose population, but ti's going to take a greater effort for Springfield to make their city grow to 200,000.

And please keep it civil. There is no excuse for the derogatory remarks you used, especially when tim2462 is one of the only people who even takes the time to respond to your posts... good or bad, his posts here keep this thread going.

[mcheiss]

Thankyou MasonsDad for trying to keep order.

I've primarily stayed out of this topic simply because I don't know much about Springfield. I'll try to make an effort to help keeping it alive though.

[slyder1]

Even though you called me stupid, I'm going to look past that and be nice :-)

I hate to tell you, but where the city limits end, is where the city ends.

Just because development is happening outside of them, doesn't mean you can all of a sudden

claiim it as city. If that were the case, many "cities" would be much bigger.

Springfield lost population due to influx of business to downtown? huh? that makes no sense.

Yes, They may be building apartments and people may be moving into Springfield, but a bigger

number are moving out to the suburbs, or out of the area all together. causing a net loss, not a gain.

You think 200,000 is within easy reach? Umm, no it's not. There are far more homes and apartments being built in Little Rock and we're having a hard time reaching the 200,000 mark. While there are tons of people moving to Little Rock, there are also people moving to the suburbs from Little Rock.

Springfield will not EVER reach 200,000. It has 70 sq. miles and the citizens will not allow much to be annexed. Springfield will not become much more dense either.

I know you'd like to see Springfield hit 200,000, as would I...but the sad fact is, it won't.

It's losing population, not gaining. Most core cities are barely growing or losing population.

It's the burbs that are growing.

Just because you don't want to face the truth, doesn't make me stupid. It just makes you naieve.

Maybe I should'nt have called you stupid........the reason I think it is so funny is because you are basing all this off one stupid "estimate" for one year. If anyone is being naieve about this matter that would be you. For you to say Springfield will not EVER reach 200,000 is the most naieve comment yet. You simply are not taking into consideration what will eventually happen. In the Springfield Vision 20/20 plan the city plans to have almost all of this land that I have been mentioning annexed. Yes, of course it is the citizens choice but you have to take into consideration that there are 2 power plants on the south side and sewer and utilities go all the way to the Christian county line which then connect to Nixa and Ozark systems. Springfield has the same setup like KC and St. Louis where the suburbs are in a circle around the city and parts around the oustside of the city was annexed as the suburbs grew closer and closer to the main city leaving parts that were not annexed land locked........which were then annexed. Of course this won't happen in the near future but the fact is it will. Springfield is already planning to extend 4 north south corridors all the way to the suburbs of Nixa and Ozark. These roads will go directly through all of the neighborhoods, as well as being annexed, then well I don't know.....people might say hey this Exspressway is right by all of these homes and apartments so I think I will build a strip mall or more apartments.......which will be annexed due to better taxes. If anyone is being naieve it is you.

Springfield Vision 20/20: http://www.ci.springfield.mo.us/community/vision2020/ Click on the interactive maps fo more detail.

[johnnydr87]

Maybe I should'nt have called you stupid........the reason I think it is so funny is because you are basing all this off one stupid "estimate" for one year. If anyone is being naieve about this matter that would be you. For you to say Springfield will not EVER reach 200,000 is the most naieve comment yet. You simply are not taking into consideration what will eventually happen. In the Springfield Vision 20/20 plan the city plans to have almost all of this land that I have been mentioning annexed. Yes, of course it is the citizens choice but you have to take into consideration that there are 2 power plants on the south side and sewer and utilities go all the way to the Christian county line which then connect to Nixa and Ozark systems. Springfield has the same setup like KC and St. Louis where the suburbs are in a circle around the city and parts around the oustside of the city was annexed as the suburbs grew closer and closer to the main city leaving parts that were not annexed land locked........which were then annexed. Of course this won't happen in the near future but the fact is it will. Springfield is already planning to extend 4 north south corridors all the way to the suburbs of Nixa and Ozark. These roads will go directly through all of the neighborhoods, as well as being annexed, then well I don't know.....people might say hey this Exspressway is right by all of these homes and apartments so I think I will build a strip mall or more apartments.......which will be annexed due to better taxes. If anyone is being naieve it is you.

Springfield Vision 20/20: http://www.ci.springfield.mo.us/community/vision2020/ Click on the interactive maps fo more detail.

I find it incredible that neither you nor Tim know how to spell "naive."

That is all.

[masons_dad1]

I find it incredible that neither you nor Tim know how to spell "naive."

That is all.

That is so informative. Thank you so much for that information. You have no idea how grateful we all are. I don't know what we would have done if you hadn't come along at just the right time to save us all.

[tim2462]

I find it incredible that neither you nor Tim know how to spell "naive."

That is all.

I know how to spell naive, as you know, sometimes mistakes are made.

I find it incredible that all you had to offer in this was trying to correct us.

That is all.

[tim2462]

Maybe I should'nt have called you stupid........the reason I think it is so funny is because you are basing all this off one stupid "estimate" for one year. If anyone is being naieve about this matter that would be you. For you to say Springfield will not EVER reach 200,000 is the most naieve comment yet. You simply are not taking into consideration what will eventually happen. In the Springfield Vision 20/20 plan the city plans to have almost all of this land that I have been mentioning annexed. Yes, of course it is the citizens choice but you have to take into consideration that there are 2 power plants on the south side and sewer and utilities go all the way to the Christian county line which then connect to Nixa and Ozark systems. Springfield has the same setup like KC and St. Louis where the suburbs are in a circle around the city and parts around the oustside of the city was annexed as the suburbs grew closer and closer to the main city leaving parts that were not annexed land locked........which were then annexed. Of course this won't happen in the near future but the fact is it will. Springfield is already planning to extend 4 north south corridors all the way to the suburbs of Nixa and Ozark. These roads will go directly through all of the neighborhoods, as well as being annexed, then well I don't know.....people might say hey this Exspressway is right by all of these homes and apartments so I think I will build a strip mall or more apartments.......which will be annexed due to better taxes. If anyone is being naieve it is you.

Springfield Vision 20/20: http://www.ci.springfield.mo.us/community/vision2020/ Click on the interactive maps fo more detail.

I understand everything you are saying. But those are all IFS. The same can be said for Little Rock.

I could sit here and tell you everything going on outside of the city limits and that someday it will be annexed. I could also tell you about the possiblitiy in the future of Little Rock and North Little Rock becoming one city, which would give it a higher population that St. Louis proper. But the truth is, none of this is certain, so it would be silly for me to make all kinds of claims on what may or may not happen. Little Rock could one day be a city of 400,000...but for now, we are at just under 190,000 and I am not going to make any claims that the city will ever be 400,000, because a lot more than the decent growth we are experiencing would have to happen before that could happen.

[mcheiss]

I find it incredible that neither you nor Tim know how to spell "naive."

That is all.

[johnnydr87]

That is so informative. Thank you so much for that information. You have no idea how grateful we all are. I don't know what we would have done if you hadn't come along at just the right time to save us all.

Any time.

I know how to spell naive, as you know, sometimes mistakes are made.

I find it incredible that all you had to offer in this was trying to correct us.

That is all.

Well, I feel your inabilities to spell naive correctly severely hindered your credibilities in the matter.

You're welcome.

[tim2462]

Nice effort there mcheiss at helping us keep this thread going.

Immature comments shouldn't be rewarded with attention.

[johnnydr87]

Nice effort there mcheiss at helping us keep this thread going.

Immature comments shouldn't be rewarded with attention.

So true....

[tim2462]

Any time.

Well, I feel your inabilities to spell naive correctly severely hindered your credibilities in the matter.

You're welcome.

Well, everyone knew what we were saying, including you, so obviously, it didn't hinder anything.

[johnnydr87]

Well, everyone knew what we were saying, including you, so obviously, it didn't hinder anything.

d@t 15 TrU3.

Seriously....I was just kidding. And why are you "rewarding" my immature comments with attention anyways?

[Mith242]

Hey slyder1, what's the topography like around Springfield and Branson. I seem to recall Springfield being rather flat. But it's been a while since I've been up there. I've only been to Branson once so I don't recall how hilly it might have been. I know Springfield obviously lies on the Springfield Plateau. Does Branson also or is it on another something else? Here in the Arkansas Ozarks we mainly have three features, the Boston Mtns, the Springfield Plateau and the Salem Plateau. I think there are some other smaller features, but you almost never hear about any of them.

Sigh, here's to the hope that all of this will subside so I can finally have some relavent questions actually get answered. I've had at least a couple that have gotten lost with all of this going on.

[tim2462]

Sigh, here's to the hope that all of this will subside so I can finally have some relavent questions actually get answered. I've had at least a couple that have gotten lost with all of this going on.

Springfield is very flat, much like Springdale. There are some areas of the city that have rocky cliffs along sides of the road and in neighborhoods. But, it's mostly flat. Branson is a lot different. It's very hilly/someone mountainous. It's very similar to West Little Rock, and somewhat like southern Fayetteville.

[mcheiss]

Nice effort there mcheiss at helping us keep this thread going.

Immature comments shouldn't be rewarded with attention.

Hey let on the brakes a bit man.

You need to chill a bit, have some fun on this site. I've know Johnny ever since I've been on this forum, and he's a great poster who knows how to keep a bit of humor in the threads.

[slyder1]

Today the Sheraton Hawthorne Park Hotel of Springfield announced that it plans to move out of its current 10 story facility at Kearney and Glenstone due to management problems. They are planning a 17 story Hotel and convention Center off I-44 between Glenstone and 65. The city is working with local developers Butler Rosenbury & Partners to put a 100 acre office park with 2-10 story office buildings and a large retail/entertaiment center at the location of the Hotel. Building timetable has not been set. I think this is a key element for the North Side to bring business to the interstate.

Picture of the existing Sheraton Hotel

[Mith242]

Any ideas what will happen with the current building?

[mcheiss]

Today the Sheraton Hawthorne Park Hotel of Springfield announced that it plans to move out of its current 10 story facility at Kearney and Glenstone due to management problems. They are planning a 17 story Hotel and convention Center off I-44 between Glenstone and 65. The city is working with local developers Butler Rosenbury & Partners to put a 100 acre office park with 2-10 story office buildings and a large retail/entertaiment center at the location of the Hotel. Building timetable has not been set. I think this is a key element for the North Side to bring business to the interstate.

Picture of the existing Sheraton Hotel

I've been by that building several times when I have driven up to St. Louis.