Piedmont Triad International Airport (GSO)

[intcvlcphlga]

I think we may have problems with the FAA in changing "GSO" to the desired code we want. I recommend a read of this website as it does give some information on the history of airport codes:

http://www.skygod.com/asstd/abc.html

This quote is why I think we'll have a hard time trying to persuade the FAA to allow the change. If we can rally enough support from local city leaders then we might stand a chance. I think we should come up with an airport code that is a bit more catchier instead of "GWH." Personally, that sounds very bland, but it may just be what we have to go with since we'll need High Point's support in this as well.

The problem with the "H" in GWH is that "H" is a modifier of P. It's not just a point, it's a high point. Unfortunately, the name "High Point" is sort of generic (no offense intended). Greensboro is named after someone and is therefore specific. Winston-Salem, likewise is a very specific, unique name. So, like ABE being Allentown/Bethlehem/Easton, GWH would translate to Greensboro/Winston/High. This is why I would push GWS which would translate to something specific - Greensboro/Winston-Salem. Perhaps, that's why RDU wasn't RDC because Chapel is sort of a generic name too and as has been mentioned before, Chapel Hill is significantly smaller than Raleigh and Durham. And, while you are probably correct that code changes are not common, they do happen. Idlewild Airport(IDL) became JFK and now Indianola, MS uses IDL. Also, Sioux City (SUX) city officials petitioned the FAA to change their code and the FAA gave them 5 alternative codes to choose from. While they decided to embrace SUX and market it, the fact is that the FAA gave them the option to change it.

[cityboi]

The news reported that passenger traffic is picking up at PTI. Sounds like good news!

[JerseyBoy]

If we have some more members interested in helping the cause to change the airport code, I'll be more than happy to organize a meeting where we can discuss our ideas and hopefully progress to the point where we will be able to start pursuing this officially.

[nowensone]

I'm game. Also, I could get behind "GWS", as the "H" has of late been irking me for a different reason - the initials for a moment make me think of our illustrious president, GWB, and that is a trick of the mind that is akin to "SUX", and probably not a good thing.

intcvlcphlga - did you already have contact info for anyone on that list of people you came up with? I started to swim through it but have not gotten far (other than physical addresses).

[intcvlcphlga]

I'm game. Also, I could get behind "GWS", as the "H" has of late been irking me for a different reason - the initials for a moment make me think of our illustrious president, GWB, and that is a trick of the mind that is akin to "SUX", and probably not a good thing.

intcvlcphlga - did you already have contact info for anyone on that list of people you came up with? I started to swim through it but have not gotten far (other than physical addresses).

Here's the contact info of some of the people I listed:

W-S Mayor

[email protected]

W-S City Council

[email protected] - Dan Besse

[email protected] - City Council Member and Mayor Pro Tempore Vivian H. Burke

[email protected] - Robert C. Clark

[email protected] - Joycelyn V. Johnson

[email protected] - Molly Leight

[email protected] - Nelson L. Malloy, Jr.

[email protected] - Wanda Merschel

[email protected] - Evelyn A. Terry

Senator Elizabeth Dole

Republican - North Carolina

United States Senate

Washington, DC 20510

202-224-6342

Senator Richard Burr

Republican - North Carolina

Washington, D.C. office:

Senate Dirksen Office Building, #40C

Washington, DC 20510

202-224-3154 (phone)

202-228-2981 (fax)

Web Form: burr.senate.gov/index.cfm?FuseAction=Contact.Home

North Carolina office:

2000 W. First Street

Suite 508

Winston-Salem, North Carolina 27104

(336) 631-5125 (phone)

(800) 685-8916 (toll free)

(336) 725-4493 (Fax)

Virginia Foxx (R

[nowensone]

^ Cityboi, list some of these examples if you don't mind, we will likely need them.

Here's the contact info of some of the people I listed:

....

OK, great, you had your homework done. I agree that we need to meet, and if we're going to be serious about this then we would probably want to professionalize any further communication with these groups, whether email or snail mail. And I imagine that we could expect to be ignored or sent polite template like letters thanking us for our contributions unless we find a way to create real support for this, such as by convincing at least one public figure to sponsor this. And there has to be at least one politician around here that is looking for an issue to create buzz around and get their own name out.

[JerseyBoy]

^ Cityboi, list some of these examples if you don't mind, we will likely need them.

OK, great, you had your homework done. I agree that we need to meet, and if we're going to be serious about this then we would probably want to professionalize any further communication with these groups, whether email or snail mail. And I imagine that we could expect to be ignored or sent polite template like letters thanking us for our contributions unless we find a way to create real support for this, such as by convincing at least one public figure to sponsor this. And there has to be at least one politician around here that is looking for an issue to create buzz around and get their own name out.

My apologies for not getting back with you guys about this. Anybody who is interested in meeting to discuss ways to go about changing the airport code of PTI, please PM me. If I have have enough interest (4 or more people) I will go ahead and reserve a table or two at a cafe/restaurant that is convenient for all of us.

[intcvlcphlga]

My apologies for not getting back with you guys about this. Anybody who is interested in meeting to discuss ways to go about changing the airport code of PTI, please PM me. If I have have enough interest (4 or mroe people) I will go ahead and reserve a table or two at a cafe/restaurant that is convenient for all of us.

I'm not in NC right now, but I would like to help out in any way possible (eg. research, composing letter/op-editorial, editing, etc.). In addition to the list of people that we compiled, we should also submit it as an op-ed piece in the Winston-Salem Journal, Greensboro News & Record, etc.

[RALNATIVE]

My apologies for not getting back with you guys about this. Anybody who is interested in meeting to discuss ways to go about changing the airport code of PTI, please PM me. If I have have enough interest (4 or more people) I will go ahead and reserve a table or two at a cafe/restaurant that is convenient for all of us.

I think that Kansas City attempted the same thing, by changing their original symbol MCI, to KCI which is the acronym for Kansas City International. From what I understand, they were unsuccessful for a couple of reasons. Check out the follwoing excerpt from Wiki which may provide you with some helpful info:

MCI instead of KCI

Despite requests from Kansas City, the airport has been unable to change its original International Air Transport Association (IATA) Mid-Continent designation of MCI which had already been registered on navigational charts. Further complicating requests to change the designation, the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) at the time reserved all call letters with "K" or "W" for radio and television stations and so KCI was not viable.^{[citation needed]}

Wichita, Kansas in 1973 laid claim to the Mid-Continent name for its Municipal Airport (IATA: ICT, ICAO: KICT) after Kansas City abandoned it. However, Wichita had no luck in changing its IATA designation for the same reasons (including the forbidden "W").

The downtown Kansas City airport got around the "K" restriction because it was originally called Municipal Airport and so its designation is MKC and for added incentive it was in Missouri.

The "W" and "K" restrictions have since been lifted but the IATA is reluctant to change names that have appeared on navigational charts.

[kmurphy19662003]

Hmmm... you guys really are nerds. Save the whales or something, screw the airport codes.

[JerseyBoy]

Why don't you learn to be respectful before you're banned from here?

[kmurphy19662003]

Why don't you learn to be respectful before you're banned from here?

Just relaying the opinion of my wife, she says the members on this board remind her of the nerds on the Alltell commercial, especially when they threaten to ban people. All I am saying is that there are bigger problems in this area than worrying about an airport code. Poor public schools, slow job creation, increasing crime,...ect

[JerseyBoy]

Public schools, job creation, and increasing crime all things that the city governments are responsible for. We don't have the resources to go out and attract a Fortune 500 company or buy an arsenal of weapons to combat crime. We are in the process of forming a group that will try to do something regional-wide for the Triad, not just for Winston or Greensboro. If this is a success, I want to make it a group where we meet once every month or two and tackle urban projects to make them beneficial for the Triad. If that's not your cup of tea, then you have the great options of not attending or visiting this thread. Your pick!

[cityboi]

good idea

[walker]

With all due respect to everyone

[Route]

This is such a stupid conversation. It's GSO, deal with it. Please somebody take this thread back to Skybus, new flights, Fed Ex, etc and let's stop this trivial nonsense.

[yadkinv]

Maybe changing the code will help address the larger problem, maybe not. It's perhaps one step in addressing the real problem, which is to get the travel industry to recognize that PTI serves two cities that are about the same size. It's to get the travel industry to say OK when someone asks for a ticket to Winston-Salem instead of the closest we can get you is Greensboro. It's to get arriving flights to say welcome to the Piedmont Triad or better welcome to Greensboro/Winston-Salem, and not just welcome to Greensboro as it is now. It is also necessary to get Greensboro/Winston-Salem on the monitors in the nation's airports, not just Greensboro for the reason explained below.

This situation is unique here, and does not occur at similar situations nationwide. To those who believe this is trivial, it is not, and they are not aware apparently of the power of names and referents in reflecting and affecting development in an area.

The perception by visitors (who do not know and that includes those coming to Winston-Salem for business meetings, River Run, National Black Theater Festival, and on, and on),based on this misleading and somehwat arrogant view is that Winston-Salem and High Point are very much smaller than Greensboro; a very unfair thing to allow. I know this from personal interviews and discussions nationwide.

[cityboi]

The perception by visitors (who do not know and that includes those coming to Winston-Salem for business meetings, River Run, National Black Theater Festival, and on, and on),based on this misleading and somehwat arrogant view is that Winston-Salem and High Point are very much smaller than Greensboro; a very unfair thing to allow. I know this from personal interviews and discussions nationwide.

Why should it matter if Greensboro seems much larger or not? Why cant Winston-Salem just be the great city that it is instead of comparing itself to Greensboro. Winston-Salem has alot of great qualities which portrays the city as a progressive urban center ripe for economic expansion. It shouldnt need to stand shoulder to shoulder with Greensboro to accomplish that. Whether people think Greensboro is 3 times bigger than Winston or 3 times smaller than Winston it really doesnt matter. Its not going to hurt Winston-Salem's growth and prosperity one way or another. I think thats a big reason why a number of people here think changing the code for the reasons mentioned here is petty and pretty silly and thats probabally why Winston-Salem city leaders arent even discussing it. Bottom line, regardless of what the airport code is, both Greensboro and Winston-Salem are going to see phenominal growth in the upcoming years. Airport codes dont define a city and they are not what brings attention to a city.

[yadkinv]

The code probably doesn't matter so much, but it does matter that the travel industry informs visitors to Winston-Salem that there's no airport serving Winston-Salem; that's what really matters. There would be no problem if the travel industry would say serving Greensboro and Winston-Salem as it says serving Raleigh and Durham, and airport monitors would flash Greensboro/Winston-Salem or if room is an issue, then Greensboro/Winston. The problem is this inequity. And, yes it does hurt image and perception, especially in those who do not know the area.

[cityboi]

The code probably doesn't matter so much, but it does matter that the travel industry informs visitors to Winston-Salem that there's no airport serving Winston-Salem; that's what really matters. There would be no problem if the travel industry would say serving Greensboro and Winston-Salem as it says serving Raleigh and Durham, and airport monitors would flash Greensboro/Winston-Salem or if room is an issue, then Greensboro/Winston. The problem is this inequity. And, yes it does hurt image and perception, especially in those who do not know the area.

well its common to say Raleigh/Durham there. Its not so common to call this area Greensboro/Winston-Salem, partially because it excludes High Point. Thats why people just say the Triad. In the Triangle it seems to be ok to exclude Chapel Hill. High Point is much bigger than Chapel Hill so you cant say Greensboro/Winston-Salem without saying High Point. I think most people have enough common sense to know that PTI also serves Winston-Salem even though its not in the airport code. If someone is traveling to Winston-Salem, the first thing they are going to do is find out where the closet airport is and thats not hard at all. They'll see that PTI is close to 20 miles from downtown Winston-Salem. So they will know imediately that PTI also serves Winston-Salem.

[yadkinv]

I must disagree courteously. It is the same situation as Raleigh/Durham, and therefore a great inequity. It is unfortuante that High Point is/cannot be accomodated in the refernce, but it is too unwieldy, and after all, High Point is half the size of Greensboro and Winston-Salem. It is understandable that you do not want the reference to include Winston-Salem, but just as understandable for folk from Winston-Salem to want it, if indeed it is a regional airport. How many metros of 500K (W-S) have no airport or at least no stated air service from the travel industry?

[cityboi]

I must disagree courteously. It is the same situation as Raleigh/Durham, and therefore a great inequity. It is unfortuante that High Point is/cannot be accomodated in the refernce, but it is too unwieldy, and after all, High Point is half the size of Greensboro and Winston-Salem. It is understandable that you do not want the reference to include Winston-Salem, but just as understandable for folk from Winston-Salem to want it, if indeed it is a regional airport. How many metros of 500K (W-S) have no airport or at least no stated air service from the travel industry?

I didnt say I didnt want Winston-Salem in there but lets face the facts, the airport code is not about Greensboro and Winston-Salem being equal. The truth is, things will never be equal. One city will always be bigger than the other, one city will always have a little more. But there is no point in changing the airport code. As I stated before, the airport code means nothing.

[burt]

What's the latest info on Skybus operations at GSO?

[yadkinv]

I agreed that the airport code means nothing, well almost nothing. It's all of the other stuff that is very meaningful, that is recognition, by the travel industry that PTI also serves Winston-Salem. There was never intended anything resembling implication of being equal because you are correct they will never be equal. The interest is in resolving what is a great inequity to Winston-Salem, a member of the Airport Commission, but with no recognition by the industry.

[walker]

What's the latest info on Skybus operations at GSO?

Enough about the airport code then. So who wants to talk about Skybus?

What kind of passenger count has there been on the existing Skybus flight? I'm too lazy to look it up myself but I find it hard to believe there is enough point-to-point traffic between Columbus Ohio and the Triad to consistently fill an A319 to as much as half-capacity at any price. I think even a 50 pax commuter jet flight would be marginal. Neither airport is a destination for what could be considered heavy tourist travel so the normal customer load would have to be business travelers. Speaking for this business traveler, we like frequency and frequent flyer miles. And while price and a non-stop are considerations we will choose a reasonable price and a hub over a rock-bottom price if it means we can get the first two points and can have the ability to rebook on a flight the same day and avoid an overnight stay if our flight is canceled. I can't say that Skybus fits the criteria. (This is hypothetical - I fly often but I have never flown to Columbus from anywhere.)

For the vacation destinations starting next year I can kind of see it. But even then I would think the demand would be too uneven to support a regular daily schedule. I suspect their business plan was based on $40 per barrel fuel. At $100 a barrel, I