Piedmont Triad International Airport (GSO)

[JerseyBoy]

Yes, I'm aware of that. But, I don't think we should be putting every Tom, Dick, and Harry in the name.

[cityboi]

Yes, I'm aware of that. But, I don't think we should be putting every Tom, Dick, and Harry in the name.

But High Point is a prominent city in this region. Its not some suburb of Greensboro.. It is certainly important enough to be included.

[coastalmindset]

I wish Winston-Salem would just turn Smith Reynolds into a real airport, then we could turn PTI into Greensboro-High Point and all the problems would be solved. This seems like the only solution to make the W/S folks happy. Greensboro and HP could slowly phase them out of the picture. HA!

[burt]

Didn't Piedmont Airlines (now US Airways) have a major presence at your airport back in the 1970's and '80's? Could that be why GSO is known as PTI?

[suburban george3]

The airport was referred to by the name 'Greensboro-High Point Regional Airport' from 1958 to 1975. About that time, it was referenced as 'Greensboro/Winston-Salem/High Point Airport' even though many people referred to it simply as 'Regional Airport' or 'Greensboro Regional Airport.' The term 'Piedmont Triad International Airport' wasn't coined until 1987, but that was more as a symbol of regional co-operation instead of the local (W-S based) Piedmont Airlines.

[yadkinv]

It is unfortunate that High Point is of necessity left out, but it is a distant third, and does not fit the national model. But, maybe it could be tried as in Greensboro/Winston/HP as long as it fits on the monitor, which this would, and the travel industry uses it. Still, I think Greensboro-Winston is the best solution as it fits the national model, identifies the two largest (after all Greensboro and High Point are in the same county), is easily displayed and incorporated into the travel jargon, and over time would evolve into local usage. This would solve the problem, and is the only solution to removing this obvious and odious barrier to Triadism.

[nowensone]

My interpretation might have been wrong earlier, but otherwise, I think it is fair to say that WS did not care too much about being a part of what is the current PTI airport. WS was once clearly bigger and stronger than GSO and so assumed it would continue to be so, and to grow it's own airport. Even somewhat recently. Back in the day WS may have even been throwing it's lowly neighbor Greensboro a bone by letting the airport be so nearby. The evidence seems to support all of that. So the unfairness of it is more WS' fault than anyone elses. That is not relevant here and now, WS should be included, but the history of the region should mute the unfairness argument a bit.

But I'd like to know why you guys think "Greensboro Winston-Salem High Point" is too long - just flew into the airport yesterday and took a scan of everything that includes the name - except for the arr/dep monitors (which would use the new "GWH" initials), everything else would fit the name fine. Most signage is already split onto multiple lines anyway.

[intcvlcphlga]

I could be wrong, but the history of the placement of the airport where it is has to do with Greensboro being granted the air mail route for this area back in the 1920s. At that time, Winston-Salem was the largest city in the state, so I don't know why the powers that be would have decided to send the air mail route to Greensboro instead of Winston-Salem. By the 60s and 70s, it was known as Regional Airport and when they built the new airport (the existing one today), it wasn't a new airport per se because they kept the same runways from Regional and just built a new terminal. Obviously, Winston-Salem's Piedmont Airlines played a large role in establishing the airport (and played an even bigger role in laying the foundation for modern Charlotte by placing the hub there) and so, it cannot be argued that Winston-Salem has been negligent in supporting the airport over the last 30-40 years.

As far as the name goes, it should be switched to GWS or GWH and referred to on tickets, boarding passes, terminal monitors and any and all references as Greensboro/Winston-Salem/High Point. As a point of reference, my Orbitz itinerary lists my destination as Greensboro/High Point Piedmont Triad International Airport (GSO). Delta lists it as Greensboro, NC (GSO). My destination however is Winston-Salem, not Greenboro or High Point, but Winston-Salem, a city roughly equal in size that has supported the airport through taxes and by providing a high percentage of its traffic for decades - it deserves to be acknowledged as an equal.

[nowensone]

^ Based on what you said it sounds as if WS or the state itself was throwing Greensboro a bone to perhaps jump start the economy, WS was already economically solid and so may have been "spreading the wealth" so to speak. The RTP park was another such project initiated to jump start the economy in the Triangle area, so there would seem to be some precedence there. As far as WS not playing a part in the airport, being negligent, etc., that was more evident early in the century, not so much recently (according to things found online that I am regurgitating).

Their decision to place the hub in CLT is interesting though, do you know anything more around that decision?

[cityboi]

It is unfortunate that High Point is of necessity left out, but it is a distant third, and does not fit the national model. But, maybe it could be tried as in Greensboro/Winston/HP as long as it fits on the monitor, which this would, and the travel industry uses it. Still, I think Greensboro-Winston is the best solution as it fits the national model, identifies the two largest (after all Greensboro and High Point are in the same county), is easily displayed and incorporated into the travel jargon, and over time would evolve into local usage. This would solve the problem, and is the only solution to removing this obvious and odious barrier to Triadism.

I do think if Winston is included High Point should be too.

[yadkinv]

I did some checking of various airports where two large cities share and support an airport, and the two cities in each case are clearly in the name, referenced by airlines and the travel industry, and the three character code reflects the situation. The Greensboro/Winston-Salem situation is the only exception. Even Seattle/Tacoma is clearly used even though Seattle at about 600k is over 3 times the size of Tacoma at about 200k. Greensboro and Winston-Salem are about the same size, and this is clearly an inequity.

The history of the problem is interesting and necesary knowledge to explain how we got here, but is not really relevant except perhaps to show that the problem must be fixed. The term "overtaken by events" clearly applies here. This is, I repeat; unfair, inequitable, but most of all truly illogical; but I also repeat, it is the fault of the leaders of Winston-Salem and Forsyth County for not standing up and demanding a solution to a problem that basically, if I may be blunt, screws Winston-Salem.

The results are far reaching and trickle down to everything. Note various weather maps across all venues that refer to Raleigh/Durham, but only to Greensboro. One can go on-and-on. It's time the leaders of Winston-salem and Forsyth County stand up to this problem, and fix it now!

[cityboi]

I did some checking of various airports where two large cities share and support an airport, and the two cities in each case are clearly in the name, referenced by airlines and the travel industry, and the three character code reflects the situation. The Greensboro/Winston-Salem situation is the only exception. Even Seattle/Tacoma is clearly used even though Seattle at about 600k is over 3 times the size of Tacoma at about 200k. Greensboro and Winston-Salem are about the same size, and this is clearly an inequity.

The history of the problem is interesting and necesary knowledge to explain how we got here, but is not really relevant except perhaps to show that the problem must be fixed. The term "overtaken by events" clearly applies here. This is, I repeat; unfair, inequitable, but most of all truly illogical; but I also repeat, it is the fault of the leaders of Winston-Salem and Forsyth County for not standing up and demanding a solution to a problem that basically, if I may be blunt, screws Winston-Salem.

The results are far reaching and trickle down to everything. Note various weather maps across all venues that refer to Raleigh/Durham, but only to Greensboro. One can go on-and-on. It's time the leaders of Winston-salem and Forsyth County stand up to this problem, and fix it now!

change will only happen when the two cities stop trying to distance themselves from one another as if they are 100 miles apart. Why the goverenment seperated Greensboro and Winston into two different metros is beyond me, especially since the commuting traffic in the region is highest between Guilford and Forsyth.

[JerseyBoy]

I think we're beginning to see the Triad come together on a handful of issues that have already been documented on this board. In the future when this part of UP starts to gain more steam, I want to create something similar to what Charlotte has done where we meet every month or two and tackle urban issues currently going on in the Triad. I'd love to see this be our first project.

[nowensone]

^ Yeah, but where would we meet? WS or GSO?

And let's NOT compromise with KVegas...

[cityboi]

^ Yeah, but where would we meet? WS or GSO?

And let's NOT compromise with KVegas...

on the Guilford/Forysyth county line where they were going to build the major league ballpark LOL

[JerseyBoy]

^ Yeah, but where would we meet? WS or GSO?

And let's NOT compromise with KVegas...

I was thinking we could reserve a few tables at a restaurant in the downtowns of one of the two. As far as which city, that is still anyone's guess. Before we start the effort to have the code changed, I think we should do some more research on whether an airport code has an economic impact on an area and how we go about changing one.

[nowensone]

Is there really any way to get data on the economic impact of an airport code? If decisions are based on subconcious perceptions as well as facts then one would have a hell of a time quantifying that. Or querying business leaders. Perhaps there are some studies out there that, while not addressing this specifically, can be used anyway based on the underlying principles.

I have emailed the FAA to see whose jurisdiction it falls under to change an airport code. Here is the contact info page for our region of the FAA: link

Here is my letter in case I should be called out for butchering the attempt:

I am writing to ask who to contact with questions about the changing of airport codes (which governing body, what procedures are required, etc.).

In the event that this is the proper place, I am writing on behalf of a group of citizens in the Triad area of NC who feel that our airport code, GSO, is not properly representative of the region it serves, namely Winston-Salem, a city nearly the same size and of equal importance as Greensboro, and to a slightly lesser degree High Point.

The code "GSO" implies the singularity and dominance of Greensboro in the region, and is not only unfair to the Triad's other two cities, but is subtly damaging to potential economic opportunities.

In the spirit of fairness and cooperation we feel that a code of "GWH" is fitting, equally representative and appears to be available. It seems as if we are the only regional airport in the U.S. that does NOT include more than one of it's constituent members. All other such airports (Dallas-Fort Worth, Raleigh-Durham, Seattle-Tacoma, etc.) fairly incorporate the initials and also do not refer to a single member on signage (GSO's is of course "PTI" or just "Greensboro").

If "PTI" were actually used and not followed with just "Greensboro" that would be better, though PTI is fairly ambiguous to geographical location, "GWH" solving both problems.

Your advice/guidance is greatly appreciated.

Thank you for your time.

Actually, I definitely could have written that better, but I imagine the initial response will be to direct me to someone else, so we can work on the wording and format here on UP.

[yadkinv]

Bravo, that is an outstanding letter (I deal with letter-writing in my business). It might not have been necessary to bring up the PTI thing, but why not. Did you copy the leaders of Winston-Salem, Greensboro, High Point, Forsyth County, and Guilford County? Well, maybe it's too early to involve them.

Thank you for this - well done!

[cityboi]

GWH is is great idea. somehow I think there are just too many people in power that like the status quo (GSO) and I doubt anything will change, at least anytime soon, especially if this is not a burning issue with Winston-Salem leaders which it appears not to be. There is probabally a reason its GSO instead of something like GWH.

[nowensone]

Bravo, that is an outstanding letter (I deal with letter-writing in my business). It might not have been necessary to bring up the PTI thing, but why not. Did you copy the leaders of Winston-Salem, Greensboro, High Point, Forsyth County, and Guilford County? Well, maybe it's too early to involve them.

Thank you for this - well done!

I think you're probably right about the PTI blurb, it is distracting from the main point. Have not copied anyone else yet, will need to collect those email addresses, and as it is important to be very well written I thought we should all "group edit" before sending to the VIP's. At any rate, it would probably be better to send a flood of emails from many people to raise eyebrows, unless one of us here has big name clout (it isn't me).

[cityboi]

personally I think the PTI terminal is outdated and badly needs to be remodeled. Its dark inside and I think there needs to be more natural light coming in there.

[intcvlcphlga]

I think you're probably right about the PTI blurb, it is distracting from the main point. Have not copied anyone else yet, will need to collect those email addresses, and as it is important to be very well written I thought we should all "group edit" before sending to the VIP's. At any rate, it would probably be better to send a flood of emails from many people to raise eyebrows, unless one of us here has big name clout (it isn't me).

Thanks for putting this together. I agree about the PTI part - it sort of confuses the issue you are trying to raise. As a start, perhaps we should put together a list of people to be copied on the flood of emails. I would cc:

Senators Dole and Burr

Congresspersons Coble, Foxx, Miller and Watt (all of whose Congressional Districts include part of Forsyth and Guilford Counties)the state senators and representatives from Forsyth and Guilford

Mayors Joines and Johnson

every member of the city councils

every member of the Forsyth and Guilford County Commissioners

the airport commission

presidents of the chambers of commerce

Winston-Salem Business Inc and the Greensboro equivalent

And, perhaps leaders from Triad-based companies and institutions like RJR, BB&T, Hanesbrands, VF Corp, Wake Forest University, Guilford College, WFUBMC, Novant Health, etc.

[cityboi]

good luck on your efforts.

[yadkinv]

I agree with the list, but also should add the customer service departments of every airline that services PTI, especially Airbus.

[JerseyBoy]

I think we may have problems with the FAA in changing "GSO" to the desired code we want. I recommend a read of this website as it does give some information on the history of airport codes:

http://www.skygod.com/asstd/abc.html

A change is rare because an identifier becomes so well known to airline staff that changes are not normally permitted.

This quote is why I think we'll have a hard time trying to persuade the FAA to allow the change. If we can rally enough support from local city leaders then we might stand a chance. I think we should come up with an airport code that is a bit more catchier instead of "GWH." Personally, that sounds very bland, but it may just be what we have to go with since we'll need High Point's support in this as well.