Springdale, Arkansas

[zman9810]

Big surprise, the Springdale Liquor Association also known as the Phillips family have a problem with the possible Macadoodles. It's not bad enough this family has found a loophole so that they can control a lot of liquor stores which wasn't the intent of the law. This family basically own all the Springdale liquor stores except one. I also believe they own some of the Fayetteville liquor stores as well. Now somebody is coming in and threatens to upset their stranglehold over Springdale's alcohol sales. There's also some vocal members of First Baptist in Springdale who aren't thrilled about it either. But other Springdale residents might want to make their intentions made. The same people causing problems now basically ran off Sam's when they wanted to open a liquor store next door. It's no coincidence that since then Springdale's tax collection revenue has been down. In the past it seems like Springdale was the recipient of businesses when Fayetteville scared them away. Now it almost seems like the opposite is happening. Sam's moved to Fayetteville and if somehow these people ran off Macadoodles I wouldn't be surprised at all if they simply picked a Fayetteville location instead.

Yeah, it's pretty funny how the city government is wasting no time supporting the new store when it sounds like it's going to be a much bigger deal than the Sam's liquor store was. It's no surprise that the monoply is fighting it or that the religious police are either.

Edited June 2, 2009 by zman9810

[Mith242]

Well Macadoodles has been denied moving a liquor license to Springdale by the ABC. In part because of opposition from former state senator Jim Holt and state senator Sue Madison of Fayetteville. First of all I don't see how this affects Sue Holt because Springdale isn't part of her district. But she has said she can't support Macadoodles because they've for years have helped Arkansas residents escape paying state taxes by buying liquor across the state line. For her to 'support' Macadoodles they will have to 'pay back' all that lost revenue. I'm sorry but that just sounds pretty asinine to me. Sure I'd prefer Arkansas residents to buy products here in Arkansas. But why is it Macadoodles fault because they're providing a service that Arkansas won't allow? Lots of revenue is going to Oklahoma because they have gambling. Are we going to start throwing loads of phosphorus and trash in the Illinois River watershed till they pass us back that lost revenue? Seems to me that allowing a Macadoodles actually helps keep some of that money in state. But until Benton County eventually becomes a wet county and they allow Sunday alcohol sales you're not going to stop people from heading up to Missouri. Sounds more likely to me that she's a 'friend' of the Phillips family who own all the liquor stores in Springdale. Perhaps the Phillips family is contributing money for her eventual re-election. Not allowing Macadoodles to build a store in Springdale fixes nothing. Letting them build a store is more likely to help keep some of the revenue in state. You'll more likely have southern Benton County residents head there than Missouri. There's not much you can do about Sunday sales until we have cities in Arkansas to sell liquor. Although then you would still have some people go to Missouri because they offer more selection. Thanks to Arkansas' antiquated liquor laws that allow monopolies in the distribution of alcohol. Let alone the fact that there's a monopoly running the liquor business in Springdale that the state turns a blind eye to.

[zman9810]

I think the denial by the ABC director is automatic whenever anyone voices opposition so that the board can hear arguments for and against when it is appealed. It's kind a of a strange way to do things but, hey, we're talking about alcohol regulations in Arkansas, so what's new?

Since Macadoodles has the support of the city including the police and fire chiefs, the opposition of a State Senator that doesn't represent Springdale and a former representative that has little support should not keep the license move from being approved. If I were that senator I think I'd keep my mouth closed- between trying to micro-manage the University of Arkansas to getting involved with issues like this she is losing support for anything she wants.

[Mith242]

I think the denial by the ABC director is automatic whenever anyone voices opposition so that the board can hear arguments for and against when it is appealed. It's kind a of a strange way to do things but, hey, we're talking about alcohol regulations in Arkansas, so what's new?

Since Macadoodles has the support of the city including the police and fire chiefs, the opposition of a State Senator that doesn't represent Springdale and a former representative that has little support should not keep the license move from being approved. If I were that senator I think I'd keep my mouth closed- between trying to micro-manage the University of Arkansas to getting involved with issues like this she is losing support for anything she wants.

Yeah the whole thing is just odd. I've heard some citizens of Springdale have complained as well. But it's hard to tell if it's just people associated with the Phillips family. Perhaps some members of First Baptist. You're right about this type of thing happening here. I guess it's also funny for me to get so riled up over a liquor store I'll probably hardly ever go to. But I've always found Arkansas' alcohol laws and distribution structure frustrating. I don't like the idea of people crossing the border and spending their money. But as I said before, denying them this store does nothing to solve that. Either way this won't be over. As you mentioned there's a number of people in Springdale who want and need the revenue this will help provide.

[Mith242]

I don't think it was too big of a surprise to most. But Springdale has approved Macadoodles. Of course there's still the problem of the fact they can't sell alcohol until the state board approves them. I haven't seen their Joplin store, but apparently this store would be modeled after it, not the one on the border. I'm guessing in the least they'll have to separate things out and not be allowed to sell all their food items and such where the alcohol and such will be sold. A bit like how Sam's had to make the 'separate' store for alcohol sales. And unless I'm totally misunderstanding Arkansas' liquor laws I think people will be disappointed to see that this store won't have the same type of selection their stores in Missouri offer. I think they'll be restricted to what types of beer, wine and liquor to what other Arkansas liquor stores offer because of how alcohol is distributed in the state. It's my understanding they won't be able to use whatever system they use in Missouri because Arkansas' liquor laws differ. For those who don't know Missouri is one of the least restrictive states when it comes to a lot of alcohol issues. Especially in this region of the country.

[jdevers]

And unless I'm totally misunderstanding Arkansas' liquor laws I think people will be disappointed to see that this store won't have the same type of selection their stores in Missouri offer. I think they'll be restricted to what types of beer, wine and liquor to what other Arkansas liquor stores offer because of how alcohol is distributed in the state. It's my understanding they won't be able to use whatever system they use in Missouri because Arkansas' liquor laws differ. For those who don't know Missouri is one of the least restrictive states when it comes to a lot of alcohol issues. Especially in this region of the country.

Prices will be higher because Arkansas state law requires more middlemen, but I've seen pretty much all the liquor and beer that MD's sells in the border store at Liquor World. The only thing missing is some of the Missouri wines, but that isn't a big deal and mirrors Arkansas where there are lots of wines made locally that are only sold locally. I would actually go so far as to say that in the beer at least the LW has a BETTER selection than MD's.

[aerotive]

Prices will be higher because Arkansas state law requires more middlemen, but I've seen pretty much all the liquor and beer that MD's sells in the border store at Liquor World. The only thing missing is some of the Missouri wines, but that isn't a big deal and mirrors Arkansas where there are lots of wines made locally that are only sold locally. I would actually go so far as to say that in the beer at least the LW has a BETTER selection than MD's.

The law _requires_ more middlemen? Lord help us.

[zman9810]

Wow....I had thought the Macadoodles permit debate was essentially settled but the opponents are making a last gasp effort to keep the permit transfer from being granted. Someone is trying to rent a house that is within a 1,000 ft of the site so that they can set up a "church". With the rule that you can't have a liquor store that close to a church it would disallow the permit move. The attempt to rent the already rented house is being done through a real estate agent so we will probably never know who is behind it (although most people could guess I think).

With the hearing being today and city leaders, police and fire chiefs and Chamber of Commerce officials all supporting the transfer this seems like a very desparate attempt. It has really turned into a drama at this point........

[Mith242]

Wow....I had thought the Macadoodles permit debate was essentially settled but the opponents are making a last gasp effort to keep the permit transfer from being granted. Someone is trying to rent a house that is within a 1,000 ft of the site so that they can set up a "church". With the rule that you can't have a liquor store that close to a church it would disallow the permit move. The attempt to rent the already rented house is being done through a real estate agent so we will probably never know who is behind it (although most people could guess I think).

With the hearing being today and city leaders, police and fire chiefs and Chamber of Commerce officials all supporting the transfer this seems like a very disparate attempt. It has really turned into a drama at this point........

I hadn't heard about that yet. That's a new one......Although I wasn't ready to assume they'd get their liquor license just yet. You'd think the ABC would lean towards it with city officials supporting it. But the city did miss it by a vote to send a message to the ABC that it totally had it's strong support. But they were also missing three people for that vote as well. Of course wouldn't the city have to allow a church to be built at that location. While I doubt churches get denied very frequently, with this looking like a disparate measure to deny Macadoodles I wouldn't be surprised to see the city deny it. But either way don't hold your breath just yet. I imagine this will have some more drama before it's all said and done.

[Mith242]

Well maybe all of this did happen a bit easier than I thought it would. Apparently Macadoodles did get their liquor license. Sounds like they got it unanimously this time. Now that's not to say someone will try to push this idea of the church to try to prevent them. But with city officials wanting this Macadoodles badly to help bring in more sales tax revenue, I see the city preventing some of these tactics to try to prevent it.

http://www.nwanews.com/story_breakingnews.php?id=446

[zman9810]

Well maybe all of this did happen a bit easier than I thought it would. Apparently Macadoodles did get their liquor license. Sounds like they got it unanimously this time. Now that's not to say someone will try to push this idea of the church to try to prevent them. But with city officials wanting this Macadoodles badly to help bring in more sales tax revenue, I see the city preventing some of these tactics to try to prevent it.

http://www.nwanews.com/story_breakingnews.php?id=446

I think it's pretty much a done deal now- they have already received approval for the building plans and the permit transfer was all they lacked. I guess it's possible that the ABC could be sued for the approval or the city sued for something but I can't imagine a judge stalling the project since it all seems on the up and up. The church idea is too late- the monopoly is broken at last. This episode made for strange bedfellows didn't it? - the church crowd and the liquor baron banding together for a common cause....

Edited July 17, 2009 by zman9810

[Mith242]

I think it's pretty much a done deal now- they have already received approval for the building plans and the permit transfer was all they lacked. I guess it's possible that the ABC could be sued for the approval or the city sued for something but I can't imagine a judge stalling the project since it all seems on the up and up. The church idea is too late- the monopoly is broken at last. This episode made for strange bedfellows didn't it? - the church crowd and the liquor baron banding together for a common cause....

Yeah you can say that again. You usually see this type of drama for some Fayetteville issue.

[Mith242]

Well Macadoodles will continue to move forward but the Phillips family is at it again with another lawsuit. I don't remember the exact language of the lawsuit but I do remember scratching my head at just exactly what they're trying to accomplish. I wish the media would pick up on the fact we've basically got a monopoly running the liquor stores in Springdale. It would be nice to see that actually receive the negative press it deserves.

[zman9810]

Well Macadoodles will continue to move forward but the Phillips family is at it again with another lawsuit. I don't remember the exact language of the lawsuit but I do remember scratching my head at just exactly what they're trying to accomplish. I wish the media would pick up on the fact we've basically got a monopoly running the liquor stores in Springdale. It would be nice to see that actually receive the negative press it deserves.

Considering how restrictive Arkanas's alcohol regulations are I've never understood how they can allow one person to control all eight stores in one town- it's amazing in a bad way. The court should throw this suit out at the first possible date and not let it be filed again- the ABC board did what they were supposed to do.

[Mith242]

Considering how restrictive Arkansas's alcohol regulations are I've never understood how they can allow one person to control all eight stores in one town- it's amazing in a bad way. The court should throw this suit out at the first possible date and not let it be filed again- the ABC board did what they were supposed to do.

My thoughts exactly. It's real ironic how strict the laws are on so many levels yet allow something like this to happen. 'I've been wondering if the Phillips family' own any of the Fayetteville liquor stores as well. If so I'd like to make sure I boycott them. Granted I pretty stick with just a couple of stores anyway. I'm pretty sure Liquor World isn't part of the Phillips family. But if I find out Liquor Mart is then I think I'd take all my business over to just Liquor World.

[Mith242]

Springdale is now home to a Marshallese consulate. The Marshallese population in Springdale is estimated to be around 4,000 to 8,000 and to be the largest in the continental US. I believe this is the only consulate in NWA. While much of the Hispanic population in the state is in NWA the Mexican consulate is in Little Rock not NWA.

[zman9810]

Macadoodles purchased a $1 million + permit from the city and are moving forward with their construction. They must be confident the court case will go their way as it should.

[Mith242]

Guess I had forgotten about this. This Friday the new Macadoodles opens in Springdale. I thought maybe they were having one more problem. But apparently everything's been worked out.

[zman9810]

Springdale is moving forward with creating a master plan for the Arvest Park area. The idea is to have it ready for when development moves into high gear after the current slowdown ends. It would be an overlay on top of exisiting city regulations and standards and help the area create an identity of it's own. It would include commercial and residential uses and those would be market driven for the most part. An area of around 2,000 acres would be included in the district from I540 to the Tontitown and from Highway 412 to Greathouse Springs Road- a huge area. Access will be greatly helped by the planned Don Tyson Parkway interchange with I540.

Here's a couple of images of the plan- these are preliminary only.

[Mith242]

Interesting. I wonder how long it's going to take to build all of that. Anyway thanks for the news and images.

[thewizard16]

Springdale is moving forward with creating a master plan for the Arvest Park area. The idea is to have it ready for when development moves into high gear after the current slowdown ends. It would be an overlay on top of exisiting city regulations and standards and help the area create an identity of it's own. It would include commercial and residential uses and those would be market driven for the most part. An area of around 2,000 acres would be included in the district from I540 to the Tontitown and from Highway 412 to Greathouse Springs Road- a huge area. Access will be greatly helped by the planned Don Tyson Parkway interchange with I540.

Here's a couple of images of the plan- these are preliminary only.

Interesting. I wonder how long it's going to take to build all of that. Anyway thanks for the news and images.

That's a great picture- I'd read about the overlay district but hadn't seen any preliminary plans so far. It'll take decades for something like that to build out completely, but I like most of that plan- it would be nice if Arvest ballpark can help Springdale gain a new identity and continue the upscale atmosphere that has been starting to catch on in western Springdale. I'd love to see work and plans being done to fix the main corridors of development in the city, but at least it looks like they're establishing a good precedent for future developments in that part of the city.

[Mith242]

That's a great picture- I'd read about the overlay district but hadn't seen any preliminary plans so far. It'll take decades for something like that to build out completely, but I like most of that plan- it would be nice if Arvest ballpark can help Springdale gain a new identity and continue the upscale atmosphere that has been starting to catch on in western Springdale. I'd love to see work and plans being done to fix the main corridors of development in the city, but at least it looks like they're establishing a good precedent for future developments in that part of the city.

Yeah I do think Springdale has learned the lessons from it's past. Too bad there's no easy fixes to some of the other parts of the city with the haphazard planning.

[zman9810]

That's a great picture- I'd read about the overlay district but hadn't seen any preliminary plans so far. It'll take decades for something like that to build out completely, but I like most of that plan- it would be nice if Arvest ballpark can help Springdale gain a new identity and continue the upscale atmosphere that has been starting to catch on in western Springdale. I'd love to see work and plans being done to fix the main corridors of development in the city, but at least it looks like they're establishing a good precedent for future developments in that part of the city.

I think these are just a depiction of what could be built- not ncessarily will be. The city still has to amend it's land use ordinances before anything is set in stone.

Speaking of stone- the use of the same native rock that Arvest Park is built with is being considered as a area wide theme. That would be nice- the rockwork on the park is very attractive.

[Mith242]

I think these are just a depiction of what could be built- not ncessarily will be. The city still has to amend it's land use ordinances before anything is set in stone.

Speaking of stone- the use of the same native rock that Arvest Park is built with is being considered as a area wide theme. That would be nice- the rockwork on the park is very attractive.

Yeah, I've wondered where they got that rock from.

[Mith242]

This probably isn't the best place to post this but it does in a way have a connection to Springdale. Looks like Arkansas had closed a loophole about possible liquor store franchises. Macadoodles already has a store open in Springdale, along with several in Missouri. But they also had plans to eventually open stores in Fayetteville, Ft Smith and Little Rock. Honestly I really wasn't concerned either way about the outcome. I like to see some of the individual liquor stores do okay. But with the way Arkansas' alcohol system is set up I'm not sure a franchise really has any advantage over others in a statewide setting. But what did irritate me about the whole thing was who sponsored the bill. The good ol' Springdale Liquor Association, otherwise known as the Phillips family. How vary hypocritical. I don't see how having Macadoodles open other stores in the state would have hurt them. Maybe they were just worried that eventually it could lead to them opening other stores in Washington County. But until this recent ruling Macadoodles apparently could have gotten around the fact because they're an entity outside the state.