NoDa (N Davidson St Arts District) Projects

[KJHburg]

More in the center part of NoDa area.  New rental townhomes right on the other side of the Matheson Bridge. 

Johnston Mill looks good.  Last photo is a small apartment building at 37th St. 

[3397char]

3 hours ago, KJHburg said:

More in the center part of NoDa area.  New rental townhomes right on the other side of the Matheson Bridge. 

Johnston Mill looks good.  Last photo is a small apartment building at 37th St. 

For the Townhomes on N Davidson at Matheson Bridge, I preferred the original design from rezoning petition 2015-039, but oh well...

[3397char]

8 hours ago, KJHburg said:

SuCre, NoNoDa. Sugaw etc I am not sure what we are calling this area around the Sugar Creek station.  

What's up with the stalled project next to the Sugar Creek LYNX parking deck on Raleigh St? 

Also looks like work is being done to extend Philemon and the missing piece between the Amaze apartments and the Grubb apartments.  

The Pass apartment garage is up and I had not seen that.  

Like those Trailside apartments on Craighead.  

What's up with the stalled project next to the Sugar Creek LYNX parking deck on Raleigh St?   

That project is/was called Indigo CLT. I had heard it hit financial trouble (I cannot confirm so this is rumor); has been stalled for over a year unfortunately. https://www.canopyclt.com/indigo-clt

Also looks like work is being done to extend Philemon and the missing piece between the Amaze apartments and the Grubb apartments. 

I don't think the Philemon connector has been out for bid yet, but I hope you are right.

 

[kermit]

Charlotte Mag has a good, if somewhat bitter, recounting of NoDa from the 1990s. Worth a read but it won't make you feel any better about the current state of the neighborhood.

https://www.charlottemagazine.com/the-noda-that-was-the-loss-of-an-arts-district/

I had lunch at Brook's today, I'll really miss it when its gone. I arrived in Charlotte in 2000 and was looking for a house. I had narrowed my choices down to NoDa or 'lesser Dilworth' (pre-McMansion McDonald ave). The houses were essentially the same price at the time (roughly $130 per square foot). Ultimately I choose Dilworth since there were sidewalks (!?) and the housing stock was significantly better (most of the mill houses in NoDa were appallingly or barely renovated at the time). I regretted my choice for a few years (NoDa was substantially cooler -- Pat's still existed then), but as I drove through the NoDa bar district after lunch today I felt like I made the right choice (granted I am 25 years older now).

EDIT: CLT_Development does make the point on twitter that NoDa is considerably more walkable today than it was in the 1990s-- this is indeed a very positive change.

 

Edited May 22 by kermit

[videtur quam contuor]

There were the renters and renovators who were in the original Bohemian city life movement, the urban pioneers. The villains were the landlords who had scooped these old homes for pittance and kept them for the low upkeep rent available.

Then there were the Bo-Bo's, the Bohemian Bourgeoisie, who adopted the style without the emotion or motivation of the pioneers. The villains were the pioneers who would not sell even though the reward was multiples of their early investment.

Then came the political and economic adventurers who wanted the location cachet but not the property itself. Thus the 4000 sf inappropriate homes midst the mill village structures. The villains were the residential and commercial developers who wanted every square foot to be available for "higher" use. Also strangulation by auto.

Edited April 23 by videtur quam contuor

[nicholas]

On 4/12/2024 at 11:05 AM, kermit said:

There is a significant chance the Red Line will use those tracks

I've always heard that the Red Line was going to follow the tracks along Graham St and potentially have a station at Camp North End.  If it follows that route then I don't see how or why it would need to use the spur through NoDa?

[kermit]

On 4/24/2024 at 4:24 PM, nicholas said:

I've always heard that the Red Line was going to follow the tracks along Graham St and potentially have a station at Camp North End.  If it follows that route then I don't see how or why it would need to use the spur through NoDa?

Yes. The Graham st tracks were the original plan. But in the two decades the Red Line was dormant:

1) NS stopped maintaining the tracks south of Atando

2) NS pulled up the tracks at the CSX diamond and through ADM (NS still owns this ROW, but reconstruction won't be a small effort)

3) CSX decided against taking the awarded $250 million federal grant that would have funded grade separating CSX and NS (the absence of this separation will significantly limit the number of Red Line trains that can be run since CSX freights will still need to cross the diamond)

4) The state decided not to install the necessary crossovers that would allow trains coming off the Graham st tracks to access the existing Gateway Station platform. Even worse, I believe the city pulled the plug on an additional Gateway Station platform that was planned specifically for Red Line trains (my knowledge of this platform is pretty fuzzy)

Running the Red Line on the Atando spur would skip Camp Northend, but using Atando would be much cheaper and faster way to get service running on the Red Line. I would bet that Atando is used for a few years before the lower Graham section gets renegotiated and rebuilt. 

For the image below:

top circle is where tracks currently end.

Middle circle shows removed at grade crossing of both Music Factory blvd and CSX

Bottom circle shows removed connection to NS main and Gateway Station

All of these things are fixable, but these replacements will be quite difficult given the number of adjacent landowners involved and two active railways that must be accomodated.

 

Edited May 22 by kermit

[3397char]

On 4/23/2024 at 3:08 PM, kermit said:

Charlotte Mag has a good, if somewhat bitter, recounting of NoDa from the 1990s. Worth a read but it won't make you feel any better about the current state of the neighborhood.

https://www.charlottemagazine.com/the-noda-that-was-the-loss-of-an-arts-district/

I had lunch at Brook's today, I'll really miss it when its gone. I arrived in Charlotte in 2000 and was looking for a house. I had narrowed my choices down to NoDa or 'lesser Dilworth' (pre-McMansion McDonald ave). The houses were essentially the same price at the time (roughly $130 per square foot). Ultimately I choose Dilworth since there were sidewalks (!?) and the housing stock was significantly better (most of the mill houses in NoDa were appealingly renovated at the time). I regretted my choice for a few years (NoDa was substantially cooler -- Pat's still existed then), but as I drove through the NoDa bar district after lunch today I felt like I made the right choice (granted I am 25 years older now).

EDIT: CLT_Development does make the point on twitter that NoDa is considerably more walkable today than it was in the 1990s-- this is indeed a very positive change.

 

I have lived in NoDa from the 90's until today, and I think these nostalgia pieces they put out roughly twice a year are mostly BS.

First, let's define what Noda was actually like in the 90's:  when there was a big show periodically at Neighborhood Theater or on gallery crawl nights on first and sometimes 3rd Friday each month, there was energy and vibrancy on N Davidson St for 2 blocks. But 90+% of nights the streets were completely dead.  Like ghost town dead.  The 4 to 5 galleries closed early (they came and went), and the only restaurants were a bad family Italian place called Marco's (where Cabo Fish Taco is now) and Fat City. (Brook's also closed early).  I TRIED to patronize my own neighborhood, but it was HARD.

And between these 4-5 galleries were multiple empty storefronts and industrial spaces like an upholstery company (where Bargerita is), glass company (Blind Pig), printing company (Billy Jack's).  There is still a transmission shop on N Davidson; that is what MOST of NoDa looked like at that time.   There was a giant intermodal yard where 25th St Station now stands and N Davidson was their truck route to I-85.  Literally well over 100 semis a day rumbled through NoDa; it was LOUD and scary as a pedestrian. 

I firmly believe that all these nostalgics who chime in were either an integral part of the very small and insular artists community (I respect their opinion, even if it unrealistic for this to last forever) or the local tourists who ONLY visited NoDa 1-5 times  a year on one of these shows or gallery crawl nights.

I somewhat disagree with the assertion that "most" of the mill houses  were renovated in 2000.  At that time, the only residential streets that looked loved were Yadkin, 35th and some of McDowell.  The rest were not in great shape.  Charles Ave and Patterson Ave in particular were pretty sketchy. On my street only 2 houses were renovated and that is because the HLC bought them for $20K to prevent demolition, brought them to code, and sold them for around $40K. the rest of the mill houses were occupied, but untouched for decades. My neighbors were one mill retiree who owned her house and the rest were low income renters; mostly immigrants whom I communicated with through their children.  There were some artist and creative type renters in NoDa but it was a small percentage. I loved this community then (and now), but it was not really an artist community. The biggest loss was when Mercury Mill was condemned in the 2000's, displacing hundreds of section 8 renters. 

NoDa actually gained nightlife in the 00's, when Evening Muse, Smelly Cat, Mellow Mushroom, Kelly's, Marguerite's, Boudreax's, Cabo, Chop Shop and a few others opened.  The galleries were a little more commercially viable with Lark&Key, Green Rice and similar. More music festivals and still had gallery crawls. I miss that more than the 90's.

When we all lament the loss of key businesses that helped make Noda great, remember that most of them were paid handsomely.  The owners of Kelly's, Fat City, Pat's and some of the galleries owned their buildings.  The ones that redeveloped were enticed to do so by receiving life altering money for their property. Brook's should they eventually sell (they are not so active in doing so right now) will fall into that category as well. It is not like mean old landlords kicked these people to the curb. There are many examples of businesses getting priced out, especially galleries, but that is not a universal theme here. 

There is much more street activation and the small businesses now actually survive with a 7-day a week destination atmosphere they share. NoDa may no longer be rightfully called an "Arts District" with so many galleries gone, but it is still an "Arts and Entertainment District" like no other in Charlotte or the region. We as a community are working to preserve and foster and preserve the arts community.  there are more public art installations in one square mile than anywhere else in Charlotte and probably within 100 miles. Different but still great. 

[jf430]

1 hour ago, 3397char said:

I have lived in NoDa from the 90's until today, and I think these nostalgia pieces they put out roughly twice a year are mostly BS.

First, let's define what Noda was actually like in the 90's:  when there was a big show periodically at Neighborhood Theater or on gallery crawl nights on first and sometimes 3rd Friday each month, there was energy and vibrancy on N Davidson St for 2 blocks. But 90+% of nights the streets were completely dead.  Like ghost town dead.  The 4 to 5 galleries closed early (they came and went), and the only restaurants were a bad family Italian place called Marco's (where Cabo Fish Taco is now) and Fat City. (Brook's also closed early).  I TRIED to patronize my own neighborhood, but it was HARD.

And between these 4-5 galleries were multiple empty storefronts and industrial spaces like an upholstery company (where Bargerita is), glass company (Blind Pig), printing company (Billy Jack's).  There is still a transmission shop on N Davidson; that is what MOST of NoDa looked like at that time.   There was a giant intermodal yard where 25th St Station now stands and N Davidson was their truck route to I-85.  Literally well over 100 semis a day rumbled through NoDa; it was LOUD and scary as a pedestrian. 

I firmly believe that all these nostalgics who chime in were either an integral part of the very small and insular artists community (I respect their opinion, even if it unrealistic for this to last forever) or the local tourists who ONLY visited NoDa 1-5 times  a year on one of these shows or gallery crawl nights.

I somewhat disagree with the assertion that "most" of the mill houses  were renovated in 2000.  At that time, the only residential streets that looked loved were Yadkin, 35th and some of McDowell.  The rest were not in great shape.  Charles Ave and Patterson Ave in particular were pretty sketchy. On my street only 2 houses were renovated and that is because the HLC bought them for $20K to prevent demolition, brought them to code, and sold them for around $40K. the rest of the mill houses were occupied, but untouched for decades. My neighbors were one mill retiree who owned her house and the rest were low income renters; mostly immigrants whom I communicated with through their children.  There were some artist and creative type renters in NoDa but it was a small percentage. I loved this community then (and now), but it was not really an artist community. The biggest loss was when Mercury Mill was condemned in the 2000's, displacing hundreds of section 8 renters. 

NoDa actually gained nightlife in the 00's, when Evening Muse, Smelly Cat, Mellow Mushroom, Kelly's, Marguerite's, Boudreax's, Cabo, Chop Shop and a few others opened.  The galleries were a little more commercially viable with Lark&Key, Green Rice and similar. More music festivals and still had gallery crawls. I miss that more than the 90's.

When we all lament the loss of key businesses that helped make Noda great, remember that most of them were paid handsomely.  The owners of Kelly's, Fat City, Pat's and some of the galleries owned their buildings.  The ones that redeveloped were enticed to do so by receiving life altering money for their property. Brook's should they eventually sell (they are not so active in doing so right now) will fall into that category as well. It is not like mean old landlords kicked these people to the curb. There are many examples of businesses getting priced out, especially galleries, but that is not a universal theme here. 

There is much more street activation and the small businesses now actually survive with a 7-day a week destination atmosphere they share. NoDa may no longer be rightfully called an "Arts District" with so many galleries gone, but it is still an "Arts and Entertainment District" like no other in Charlotte or the region. We as a community are working to preserve and foster and preserve the arts community.  there are more public art installations in one square mile than anywhere else in Charlotte and probably within 100 miles. Different but still great. 

Amen

[CLT Development]

2 hours ago, 3397char said:

I have lived in NoDa from the 90's until today, and I think these nostalgia pieces they put out roughly twice a year are mostly BS.

First, let's define what Noda was actually like in the 90's:  when there was a big show periodically at Neighborhood Theater or on gallery crawl nights on first and sometimes 3rd Friday each month, there was energy and vibrancy on N Davidson St for 2 blocks. But 90+% of nights the streets were completely dead.  Like ghost town dead.  The 4 to 5 galleries closed early (they came and went), and the only restaurants were a bad family Italian place called Marco's (where Cabo Fish Taco is now) and Fat City. (Brook's also closed early).  I TRIED to patronize my own neighborhood, but it was HARD.

And between these 4-5 galleries were multiple empty storefronts and industrial spaces like an upholstery company (where Bargerita is), glass company (Blind Pig), printing company (Billy Jack's).  There is still a transmission shop on N Davidson; that is what MOST of NoDa looked like at that time.   There was a giant intermodal yard where 25th St Station now stands and N Davidson was their truck route to I-85.  Literally well over 100 semis a day rumbled through NoDa; it was LOUD and scary as a pedestrian. 

I firmly believe that all these nostalgics who chime in were either an integral part of the very small and insular artists community (I respect their opinion, even if it unrealistic for this to last forever) or the local tourists who ONLY visited NoDa 1-5 times  a year on one of these shows or gallery crawl nights.

I somewhat disagree with the assertion that "most" of the mill houses  were renovated in 2000.  At that time, the only residential streets that looked loved were Yadkin, 35th and some of McDowell.  The rest were not in great shape.  Charles Ave and Patterson Ave in particular were pretty sketchy. On my street only 2 houses were renovated and that is because the HLC bought them for $20K to prevent demolition, brought them to code, and sold them for around $40K. the rest of the mill houses were occupied, but untouched for decades. My neighbors were one mill retiree who owned her house and the rest were low income renters; mostly immigrants whom I communicated with through their children.  There were some artist and creative type renters in NoDa but it was a small percentage. I loved this community then (and now), but it was not really an artist community. The biggest loss was when Mercury Mill was condemned in the 2000's, displacing hundreds of section 8 renters. 

NoDa actually gained nightlife in the 00's, when Evening Muse, Smelly Cat, Mellow Mushroom, Kelly's, Marguerite's, Boudreax's, Cabo, Chop Shop and a few others opened.  The galleries were a little more commercially viable with Lark&Key, Green Rice and similar. More music festivals and still had gallery crawls. I miss that more than the 90's.

When we all lament the loss of key businesses that helped make Noda great, remember that most of them were paid handsomely.  The owners of Kelly's, Fat City, Pat's and some of the galleries owned their buildings.  The ones that redeveloped were enticed to do so by receiving life altering money for their property. Brook's should they eventually sell (they are not so active in doing so right now) will fall into that category as well. It is not like mean old landlords kicked these people to the curb. There are many examples of businesses getting priced out, especially galleries, but that is not a universal theme here. 

There is much more street activation and the small businesses now actually survive with a 7-day a week destination atmosphere they share. NoDa may no longer be rightfully called an "Arts District" with so many galleries gone, but it is still an "Arts and Entertainment District" like no other in Charlotte or the region. We as a community are working to preserve and foster and preserve the arts community.  there are more public art installations in one square mile than anywhere else in Charlotte and probably within 100 miles. Different but still great. 

this is spot on to the NoDa I know and love.

[KJHburg]

Walked the 36th Street corridor.  (Just a sidenote there is more apartment construction on this single street than I saw all over Va Beach and Norfolk) 

Can't wait until the Sprouts confirms their long-rumored and much-talked-about store.  So much retail is coming to this one street from up at Centro NoDa and Inkwell down to the 2 Avery Hall projects.  

[KJHburg]

Here is @CLT Development Amtrak ride out of Charlotte today    nice video!