Norfolk Development 2

[vdogg]

Real estate heat depends on location . I really do hope they are successful in selling that property. It's in a perfect location for another Harbors edge style development.

[tuffsim]

Real estate heat depends on location . I really do hope they are successful in selling that property. It's in a perfect location for another Harbors edge style development.

That lot is tiny. They would certainly have to acquire adjacent properties to do anything near the size of Harbors Edge.

Tabb's is a good place to eat though.

[tuffsim]

Not sure which thread to post this in and I am sorry if this is a repost, but I wanted to mention that Baxter's (sports bar) is now open.

[urbanvb]

Not sure which thread to post this in and I am sorry if this is a repost, but I wanted to mention that Baxter's (sports bar) is now open.

Would that be the establishment that the GSA wants to take to extend the courthouse?

[vdogg]

Would that be the establishment that the GSA wants to take to extend the courthouse?

That would be it. Keep in mind however that it is going to take years for them to wade through all the court battles on this one, during which time Baxters can turn a tidy profit as well as locate another area downtown from which to operate.

[tuffsim]

Would that be the establishment that the GSA wants to take to extend the courthouse?

Yes.

[vdogg]

Developers clamour to build office towers/retail on downtown plaza

So Norfolk turned these people down?!?! And the assistant city manager wants to put a big box store there? In freaking downtown? Please tell me he's joking.

[urbanfan]

Developers clamour to build office towers/retail on downtown plaza

So Norfolk turned these people down?!?! And the assistant city manager wants to put a big box store there? In freaking downtown? Please tell me he's joking.

I believe he is referring to the vertical power plant that was proposed some time ago. No one in there right mind would build another shopping center after tearing one down. This will be a mixed use development I'm sure.

[vdogg]

I believe he is referring to the vertical power plant that was proposed some time ago. No one in there right mind would build another shopping center after tearing one down. This will be a mixed use development I'm sure.

I sure hope you're right about that but the way it was worded they didn't make it sound like anything urban. I am very curious about these office towers that were turned down. Were they turning them down because the study isn't done or because they considered them inappropriate for the area? It's gonna be interesting to see how this turns out. Also, the fact that there are office towers (plural) being considered means that our office market may be stronger than previously thought, which is great.

[rusthebuss]

I sure hope you're right about that but the way it was worded they didn't make it sound like anything urban. I am very curious about these office towers that were turned down. Were they turning them down because the study isn't done or because they considered them inappropriate for the area? It's gonna be interesting to see how this turns out. Also, the fact that there are office towers (plural) being considered means that our office market may be stronger than previously thought, which is great.

Yeah Burfoot said he wanted something like Broad Creek there. I hope they don't do something like that! I will be very disappointed with the city. This is downtown. There needs to be high rises there. They stress the lack of land and then discuss a broad creek development in the same breath!

[Chesapeake Pirate]

I think everyone is getting excited prematurely here. I think the main things to consider are that downtown Norfolk is basically out of land, the city is thriving and growing, the zone in question has a chance to "become" part of downtown if redeveloped properly, the city has had a lot of interest already in part of the area, and the city very properly considers this to be such an important redevelopment opportunity that it is hiring a consultant to help.

I don't think Norfolk "turned people down" as much as they decided that acting on any proposals before the consultants did their job would be risky and premature.

I think it is possible that a big box store or two could become part of that huge area of land, but I think it could just as easily not be needed or best.

I think that redeveloment Broad Creek Style would be a big mistake. This redevelopment needs to emphasize the vertical. I do agree that we need to consider the needs of all income levels for housing and redevelop with that in mind. I don't think we owe every single existing resident a spot in this zone forever.

This will be exciting to watch the next few years:)!

[vdogg]

I don't think Norfolk "turned people down" as much as they decided that acting on any proposals before the consultants did their job would be risky and premature.

Perhaps you're right. I'm actually surprised that they hadn't done this study years ago. The article just concerned me a bit, that's all. Over the past year we've all had these high minded ideas for what we think may come out of DT plaza. When I heard big box retailer I was kinda taken aback. If they put a big box retailer there, it needs to be big box in conjuction with something else. It would be a serious mistake to start to suburbanize any portion of the regions "main downtown". I'm crossing my fingers that once the study is complete we will get at least one office building out of this. I love all the condo development we've had but in order to have a truly major downtown we need to start shifting more focus back to commercial development. As I said, the fact that people are already proposing office towers and Trader is not even finished yet means we're headed in the right direction. I'm anxious to see what's next.

Edited December 28, 2005 by vdogg

[Jim Nasty]

I wouldnt mind seeing a Best Buy or Target getting built somehow near Downtown. The closest Wal-Mart is in Chesapeake and Best Buy is all the way down @ Independence. After GW is built, I can just cross the street to do my grocery shopping, but if I need some Wal-Mart-type stuff, I've gotta get in the car and roll for a while.

BTW - does anyone know when the Union Mission is supposed to be making their move?

[Greekboy80]

Correct me if i'm wrong but I was thinking that the article was saying that they didn't want a big box or broad creek type of development. That was why they wanted the consultant(who they pay $435,000).

P.S. City of Norfolk, I'll do it for half of that salary .

[Greekboy80]

I wouldnt mind seeing a Best Buy or Target getting built somehow near Downtown. The closest Wal-Mart is in Chesapeake and Best Buy is all the way down @ Independence. After GW is built, I can just cross the street to do my grocery shopping, but if I need some Wal-Mart-type stuff, I've gotta get in the car and roll for a while.

BTW - does anyone know when the Union Mission is supposed to be making their move?

like I have said before, if they do get one of those "big box" type of stores make sure that its on the bottom of a tower. They can make it happen and with the people living DT in the near future, they would be foolish not to(the city and the store).

[vdogg]

Correct me if i'm wrong but I was thinking that the article was saying that they didn't want a big box or broad creek type of development.

I'm sorry to say this but the asst. city manager was quoted pondering the possibility of a big box retailer in that location. Mr. Burfoot is the one who wants another Broad Creek. The reason to do the study is so they don't make a mistake with this prime piece of land. I must say, i'm nervous. For $435,000 this guy better be good. I'm hoping he can work the kind of magic that Ray Gindroz seems to be able to do everytime he comes up with these comprehensive plans.

[rusthebuss]

I can't believe they are evening discussing a broad creek development right there. What the hell are they thinking? Are they trying to box DT back in? You can move the people to a new location close to DT.

DT is critical for the success of the entire city! If we can bring big dollar companies here, this will bring in the dollars for schools and helping the less fortunate!

[Greekboy80]

I'm sorry to say this but the asst. city manager was quoted pondering the possibility of a big box retailer in that location. Mr. Burfoot is the one who wants another Broad Creek. The reason to do the study is so they don't make a mistake with this prime piece of land. I must say, i'm nervous. For $435,000 this guy better be good. I'm hoping he can work the kind of magic that Ray Gindroz seems to be able to do everytime he comes up with these comprehensive plans.

I'm not nervous at all, the article clearly states that

"Assistant City Manager Stanley A. Stein, who is heading the study for the city, said he has no preconceived notions. He said the study could take as long as a year.

Edited December 28, 2005 by Greekboy80

[vdogg]

That to me says that they offered to build the "big box" type of developments and other types of developments and "have nixed all of the offers". Hence why they hired Mr. Clancy. They dont want it to be ordinary. They want something special.

Well, if they are referring to the big-box development that people are now telling me they are it wasn't so much "nixed" as it was cancelled by the developer due to adverse economic conditions at the time (and isn't that bad of a concept either). If it was that project calling it "big box" is a bit incorrect as it was planned to be part of a 33 story tower (vertical power center). It just appeared from the wording in the quote that he was putting forth the "big box" concept, such as say a kmart etc. as appropriate for that location, maybe I just read it a bit differently. Yes, be creative, but stay within reason. Unless it is part of the aforementioned "vertical power center" type development I just can't see a big box being a good use of that land. I agree that hiring this consultant is a good idea, I am a bit concerned with the time it will take to complete this study. If the demand is there now for office towers, which apparently it is, I fear prospective tenants/developers may go searching elsewhere if they feel the delay will be too long. On that note, i'd really like to know if the city is doing anything as far as pitching the St. Pauls land (the site of the rumored 35-40 story office tower) as a possible site to locate to. This in my mind would be perfect for continued office development and the fact that it has not been mentioned recently makes me wonder what are the exact plans for that land.

[rusthebuss]

I just hope they don't screw this big opportunity up. I fear I will be greatly dissappointed in the out come!

[urbanvb]

Somehow I am thinking this may turn out alright. The city is very much aware that it is land locked and land is being gobbled up all the time by devlopers. They realize this area has a huge potential therefore they are spending the $435k to study what best to do with the land. I am confident the study will consider office demand, housing and retail demand, etc. The city has done an awesome job imo of redeveloping and I couldn't see why this would not be the same. And also I was very glad to hear they do not intend to put anyone on the street rather to possibly incorporate mixed housing which I think is a great idea. And not all big-box is a bad idea, think Barnes and Noble on the ground floor of a building as such.. or the vertical power center is ok with me as long as other uses are also realized from this plot. All this to say the city seems intent on redeveloping in a positive way and I anxiously await their decision.

[okinawatyphoon]

Yes, I definitely think we need to forget anything we may think we know about what will happen with the DT plaza land and just wait and see what the study says.

[skylinefan]

The St. Paul's quandrant includes my late father's office building on Fenchurch St. and the church I grew up in St. John's AME Church on Bute St. Lets hope whatever is done to this site adds to Downtown's prosperity.

[JOHN E. MUELLER]

The St. Paul's quandrant includes my late father's office building on Fenchurch St. and the church I grew up in St. John's AME Church on Bute St. Lets hope whatever is done to this site adds to Downtown's prosperity.

Hey, everyone, Happy New Year! May 2006 be the year of tower power.

I'm surprised that, throughout all this talk, I haven't read anything more about the city using part of the Downtown Plaza land for the new City Hall/Circuit Court/School Admin bldg complex. I thought at one time (unless I dreamed the whole thing) that due to the need for new pretty much everything, that this would be a good site, freeing up the land currently occupied by the current complex for office towers, hotels, and residences. The land closer to the river and the CDB seems a bit more prime. Of course, I suppose they'd have to move the jail, too.... Have I missed the boat on this one?

[Greekboy80]

Hey, everyone, Happy New Year! May 2006 be the year of tower power.

I'm surprised that, throughout all this talk, I haven't read anything more about the city using part of the Downtown Plaza land for the new City Hall/Circuit Court/School Admin bldg complex. I thought at one time (unless I dreamed the whole thing) that due to the need for new pretty much everything, that this would be a good site, freeing up the land currently occupied by the current complex for office towers, hotels, and residences. The land closer to the river and the CDB seems a bit more prime. Of course, I suppose they'd have to move the jail, too.... Have I missed the boat on this one?

I think it's a great idea. It would be kinda tricky to move the jail though .